Yes, and you are being uncharacteristically dismissive of people who do feel a different gender.I didn't take her post that way at all. What I see is her being comfortable with who she is, not feeling that she has to conform herself to any sociological presumption of who she should be. Attacking her on that just because she's not being "inclusive" of the other 58 genders out there is exactly the problem with the left these days. Mriana has every right to express herself without having someone dig at her for not recognizing other people.
Attacking her on that just because sheās not being āinclusiveā of the other 58 genders out there is exactly the problem with the left these days. -- mitchMore twisting from the Mitch. I didn't attack anyone.
I understand the difficulty of understanding how it must feel, but I have listened to enough stories, including people I know, to get that those feelings exist. I have no interest in men, the idea of kissing one is kind of revolting, but itās a matter of taking those feelings and imagining someone who appears to me to be a woman and has the same revulsion. I get choked up for Hallmark movies, which is not considered āmanlyā according to some, so why canāt someone have some other feelings that donāt fit the stereotypes?
I use the extreme case of people that, if you saw them naked, you would have evidence for both genders. I think that is actually āsexā not gender, but letās not go down that rabbit hole. I use those examples because it shows that there is a spectrum; some people obviously have physical characteristics, from hormone levels to genitals, that do not fit the binary options. More people are further down that spectrum, like a woman who looks very manly, or an effeminate man. Some people have urges and feelings that we canāt see, that donāt conform to standard heterosexuality.
I wasnāt twisting anything here. The post was emotionally manipulative to make Mriana feel guilty for being " uncharacteristically dismissive of people who do feel a different gender". I didnāt read her post as being dismissive so much as her being comfortable with herself. I donāt think you did it intentionally, but thatās definitely how it came off.
What I see is her being comfortable with who she is, not feeling that she has to conform herself to any sociological presumption of who she should be
Thank you and I do feel comfortable and I donāt conform.
58 genders
58? Seriously? How? OK now I really donāt get any of this.
Mriana has every right to express herself without having someone dig at her for not recognizing other people.
Thank you. As I said before, why is the new thing not to be comfortable with what and who they are or why is the new thing not being comfortable with oneās body and oneās wrong if they are comfortable with themselves. IMHO there isnāt a thing wrong with being comfortable with oneself.
I didnāt read her post as being dismissive so much as her being comfortable with herself.
I meant it as being comfortable with myself. To be honest, Iāve come a long ways since my teens, twenties, even 30s. I had a severe eating disorder. Not that I donāt see myself bigger than what I am (although since menopause, quitting smoking, and a bad thyroid, I have put on 20 lbs above the 100 I was for several years, and am now in the low overweight area), I donāt see myself as a disgusting fat blob nor am I 4ā11" and 80 lbs either. It took years for me to feel comfortable, but I went through a lot of therapy and dealt with much of the abuse my father and first husband put me through. Thus, you can see why I wonder why, what, how transgenders feel uncomfortable in their bodies. I understand psychology, medical science, and other sciences, but I donāt understand transgenderism, but I would like to understand using the sciences. Maybe I canāt help them, but I do wish to understand it better.
I get choked up for Hallmark movies, which is not considered āmanlyā according to some, so why canāt someone have some other feelings that donāt fit the stereotypes?
You can and I admire a man who allows himself to be choked up with movies or cries when in pain (emotional or physical). Iāve taught my sons that itās OK to cry if something hurts that bad or even cry at a loss of a friend. Itās not healthy to hold/suppress emotions. One should express them appropriately though, not get angry and beat up on someone weaker than they are- ie spousal abuse is always wrong and an inappropriate way to express emotions. I donāt think anyone needs to conform to anything. I just wonder how much is peer pressure, like in the case of my older son. Time will tell, but no one should be forced to assimilate to some alleged social norm. I never said anyone had to either.
I have no issues with gays and lesbians. Actually, I can sort of understand a lesbian- who better to please a woman than another woman, because another woman knows what pleases a woman. That and there are some very attractive women- at least on TV, with a ton of makeup and facelifts. Gay men Iām cool with because I can trust, that unless they are bi, arenāt going to hit on me, especially when I wasnāt married. Some [straight] men get so vulgar when they hit on a woman and make one uncomfortable, but some gay guys are like hanging out with one of the girls. Now Rupaul I donāt know why but I feel so dirty when I watched one of his shows recently- like needing a shower dirty. Thatās a different story though. Iām uncomfortable with porn, so thatās not Rupaulās fault. Rupaul is just an entertainer with a show which encourages other drag queens to compete in entertaining people.
why is the new thing not being comfortable with oneās body and oneās wrong if they are comfortable with themselves. ā mriana
Itās not a thing, and there arenāt 58 genders, thatās stuff that people like ExMachina make up as straw man arguments. Maybe they saw it once in some obscure blog, but itās not a thing.
The āthingā, that was very real for a long time is being made to feel uncomfortable about not conforming. It was a mental illness diagnosis for a long time and took some real finagling to get it removed because if you were a psychiatrist and you even suggested that gender non-conformity might be normal mental behavior, then you were labeled as mentally ill and couldnāt come to the conference where they discussed changing the diagnosis.
why is the new thing not being comfortable with oneās body and oneās wrong if they are comfortable with themselves. ā mrianaItās not a thing -Lausten
Good. Iām glad itās not a thing, but it sure seems like it is, because people get bent if you are comfortable.
there arenāt 58 genders, thatās stuff that people like ExMachina make up as straw man arguments.
Thatās good too because I couldnāt imagine such a thing or even what all the genders would be. It seems unreal and Iām glad to hear it is.
The āthingā, that was very real for a long time is being made to feel uncomfortable about not conforming. It was a mental illness diagnosis for a long time and took some real finagling to get it removed because if you were a psychiatrist and you even suggested that gender non-conformity might be normal mental behavior, then you were labeled as mentally ill and couldnāt come to the conference where they discussed changing the diagnosis.
We are not Borg. However, gender dysmorphia is still in the DSM. The only cure though, is transitioning, if they are found to truly be transgender. People who think they are trans have to live their lives for a while as the gender they believe they are, as well as talk to doctor(s) and psychologist(s) to be sure they wonāt end up regretting the change. Jazz (a YouTube trans) went through a lot for years before she was allowed to get the surgery, but she was luckier than most because she never went through puberty (hormone suppressants), then was allowed to take female hormones, and got to have the surgery shortly (a year or two, maybe three) after she reached the age of majority. I donāt think she actually ever lived her life as a boy. Iāve been watching her since she was a teen on YouTube, but thing is, I just donāt know and I donāt understand, but she seems happy and she has the boobs she always wanted. lol As well as a vagina now. Iām curious how things will work out when she tells the man (assuming she is attracted to guys) who wants to marry her she canāt have kids and why. If he really loves her, it wonāt matter and they could adopt. I hope he doesnāt suddenly cross the fine line between love and hate, and harm her, because she wouldnāt be harming him by being honest with him. Now if she like gals, then itās understood theyād adopt if they want kids and it wouldnāt matter much.
there arenāt 58 genders, thatās stuff that people like ExMachina make up as straw man arguments.A lot of nonsensical identities do exist.
there arenāt 58 genders, thatās stuff that people like ExMachina make up as straw man arguments. A lot of nonsensical identities do exist.
I honestly thought this was common knowledge, and worse yet, I really thought most people on the CFI forum would agree with the idea of nonsensical identities. I know the LGBT+ supports many of these altered identities so I tried finding their official website andā¦erā¦found nothing, so instead I went to Wikipedia and found this in regards to what the LGBT+ accept as gender. Like I said at the beginning of my post, how far do you take this before you say you disagree. Most people here seem to not realize just how radicalized the issue has gotten. I argued with Occam about how fluid identity could become a serious problem, and even went so far as to bring it up to this forum. The next thing I find out is DarronS posting to Doug that I should be banned for being so intolerant and hateful. Seriously people, hear me out when I say that youāre taking the easy road by conforming yourself to this new āWokeā culture. If youāve never heard that word then you REALLY need to get yourself update on current events.
Transgender inclusion The term trans* has been adopted by some groups as a more inclusive alternative to "transgender", where trans (without the asterisk) has been used to describe trans men and trans women, while trans* covers all non-cisgender (genderqueer) identities, including transgender, transsexual, transvestite, genderqueer, genderfluid, non-binary, genderfuck, genderless, agender, non-gendered, third gender, two-spirit, bigender, and trans man and trans woman.[66][67] Likewise, the term transsexual commonly falls under the umbrella term transgender, but some transsexual people object to this.[28]When not inclusive of transgender people, the shorter term LGB is used instead of LGBT.[28][68]
I get choked up for Hallmark movies, which is not considered āmanlyā according to some, so why canāt someone have some other feelings that donāt fit the stereotypes?I meant to have brought this up earlier since I knew it was personal and it was a point where I thought we could finally find some agreement between us. The problem of our society is not signally on just the leftist or the right. Both sides of the fence are screwed up because both groups love to mock others, just in their own way. Why can't a person just enjoy the moment of something meaningful without having some asshole hissing or ridiculing them for acting in a way that THEY find unacceptable? As much as I rant about transgenders I've never said that I disapprove of their lifestyle. I rant about their forcing me to conform to my beliefs to accept them as being their claimed gender. I'm sorry to disagree that the body does not meet with the mind, but that still doesn't change the reality of your body. Some dudes wearing dresses and make-up had full beards, chest hairs, and junk went on Tinder (a dating website) claiming discrimination of men not wanting to date them. The media painted these idiots up as progressive and inclusive.
The direction society is headed in is that identity is subjective, and other people must conform their beliefs to align with the beliefs of what the person says they are. Jordan Peterson had been fighting this for YEARS and the leftists have berated him as being intolerant and hateful (Yay! Just like me on the CFI) Conformity to the new fascist leftists is the only answer lest you dare contest.
The US is heading straight into a Trans-identity crisis where you can now create laws forcing people to conform to your claimed identity. If people identify you as God. Just to save you time donāt bother going to the registry because I got there first and secured my identity as āGodā. If ever things get to the point that people are what they say they are, then Iām already ahead of the game. Everyone else is a false God of course since I registered myself first. Only a God would know to do that.
Oh, btw my Asian wife has been really enjoying our Season passes at Knotts Berry Farm with our 5-year-old son. Apparently, a great deal of Hispanics disagrees with her wearing a mask as she gets dirty looks from them and even outright cries of people calling her a loser or wimp. Iām just glad sheās Asian or else I would have to assume that she was from the KKK or any other White Supremacist group. Iām suspecting Buena Park is not so bueno.
why is the new thing not being comfortable with oneās body and oneās wrong if they are comfortable with themselves. ā mrianaItās not a thing -Lausten
Good. Iām glad itās not a thing, but it sure seems like it is, because people get bent if you are comfortable.
Yes, it is a thing. Itās the new āwokeā method of belittling people for not being āwokeā enough.
ā uncharacteristically dismissive of people who do feel a different gender"This is a guilt trip plain and simple. You can paint all the rainbows on it and accuse me of twisting things. It's easier to blame than recognize one's own faults. I've said a lot of stupid crap in my lifetime that I regret saying even to this day. It's what keeps me strong not to make the same mistakes repeatedly. I've said it before, and even to this day that I'll be banned from this forum eventually because I've never had a good filter for etiquette on forums. If I do get banned though I won't take it personally and I'll just move on to other things in my life. The thing is, even at 50 I'm still willing to accept my mistakes and learn from them because I always want to learn new things. I get more excited about being wrong than I do when I'm right since being wrong means that I'll learn something new. I guess that's why I come to the CFI.
I meant to have brought this up earlier since I knew it was personal and it was a point where I thought we could finally find some agreement between us. The problem of our society is not signally on just the leftist or the right. Both sides of the fence are screwed up because both groups love to mock others, just in their own way.No, that's not true. Only people who are ignorant or insecure in their own skin mock others. It's a defense mechanism.
Why canāt a person just enjoy the moment of something meaningful without having some asshole hissing or ridiculing them for acting in a way that THEY find unacceptable? As much as I rant about transgenders Iāve never said that I disapprove of their lifestyle. I rant about their forcing me to conform to my beliefs to accept them as being their claimed gender. Iām sorry to disagree that the body does not meet with the mind, but that still doesnāt change the reality of your body. Some dudes wearing dresses and make-up had full beards, chest hairs, and junk went on Tinder (a dating website) claiming discrimination of men not wanting to date them. The media painted these idiots up as progressive and inclusive.You condemn people who mock others for their peculiarities, yet you persist in calling them "idiots" yourself. If it does not hurt anyone, why not let people express themselves the way it makes them happy. Be generous in your judgement as to what is "acceptable" to you.
Condemn violence, celebrate peaceful expressions of individuality. Variety is the greatest creative strength of the human race.
In the US we are engaged in a noble experiment but unfortunately, we are an uninformed citizenry and the result of cultural stagnation can be seen in the people we elect to represent us.
As much as I rant about transgenders Iāve never said that I disapprove of their lifestyle. I rant about their forcing me to conform to my beliefs to accept them as being their claimed gender. Iām sorry to disagree that the body does not meet with the mind, but that still doesnāt change the reality of your body. -- ExMachinaThere are so many things wrong here. Iām not really addressing Mr. Ex, but I like to have responses to junk like this on this platform, so others know those responses exist.
I donāt think anyone is coming into your life and forcing anything on you, not like the way transgenders have been actually forced. List of people killed for being transgender - Wikipedia Iāve made several attempts to describe the āreality of your bodyā and how science canāt come up with a definitive test for gender, but you continue to claim the very simple determination that is made in the delivery room is the only acceptable test.
I donāt care what dudes on Tinder do. Maybe you should stop using garbage like that as evidence.
The direction society is headed in is that identity is subjective, -- ExItās not headed that way. You are just hearing more about it because people are not getting killed for speaking up. Peterson created a controversy to promote himself.
I honestly thought this was common knowledge, and worse yet, I really thought most people on the CFI forum would agree with the idea of nonsensical identities. I know the LGBT+ supports many of these altered identities so I tried finding their official website andā¦..erā¦.found nothing, so instead I went to Wikipedia and found this in regards to what the LGBT+ accept as gender. Like I said at the beginning of my post, how far do you take this before you say you disagree. --mitchThe problem is the way you view the world. The internet is not a lens into society, it is a distorted funhouse mirror. You are Homer Simpson's dad, yelling at a cloud. Big deal, some people who use words as their main medium, like news outlets and facebook, decided to make a list of all the new terms that have been created recently. That is not information I need to keep up with since I get the definitions of those terms from actual LGBT+ people and other sources closer to the issue.
Itās rather telling that you attempted to find a source that at least said it was from LGBT+ folks, but since you couldnāt, you went to Wikipedia and said it represented LGBT+. You are looking for information to confirm your predetermined bias.
There is no mass of people who all think alike within some borders of an LGBT+ community. They argue amongst themselves just like all of us. So there isnāt some line that has been or will be crossed where I will āno longer take itā.
@thatoneguy Healthline website isnāt a reliable source. I bet I could go on Medscape or NEJM or JAMA and not find that info anywhere.
Both sides of the fence are screwed up because both groups love to mock others, just in their own way. Why canāt a person just enjoy the moment of something meaningful without having some asshole hissing or ridiculing them for acting in a way that THEY find unacceptable? As much as I rant about transgenders Iāve never said that I disapprove of their lifestyle. I rant about their forcing me to conform to my beliefs to accept them as being their claimed gender. Iām sorry to disagree that the body does not meet with the mind, but that still doesnāt change the reality of your body.
Exactly. I donāt ridicule just because I find something silly or stupid or totally unscientific. Sometimes some things are none of my business, even if I think itās crazy nor do I attempt to force anyone to conform to my views. As I said we are not the Borg and I really hate it when someone attempts to force me to agree with them when I donāt agree or I donāt understand. Iām not going to take a side on anything if I donāt understand and have reliable information about a topic nor will I mock anyone either. I donāt just accept anything about a topic. It has to be a reliable source and I know for sure it is reliable. I never saw this as a Left or a Right thing, but I am literally a free and independent thinker, who wants reliable information and doesnāt just go with the flow.
That said, I see nothing wrong with a male being effeminate or a female into what is traditionally considered a masculine activity. I also love it when a male wants to learn needlepoint or crocheting.
There are so many things wrong here. Iām not really addressing Mr. Ex, but I like to have responses to junk like this on this platform, so others know those responses exist.
I donāt see it. There are people who jump others for not following their views, forcing them to fall in line, even if they donāt understand. I feel as though you tried to do that and was going to say nothing more in this thread because of it. However, this CFI. Not everyone agrees, but we all seek information and some of us wonāt reliable information and not just info from any source we can find on the topic. I wasnāt being dismissive, regardless of what someone else may think. I seek reliable info on the topic because I do not understand it and often wonder if this is just a fad or if there really is something behind it, but if someone is going to call me dismissive and other things, then Iām just going to keep my mouth shut and make sure no one starts breaking the rules. I see no reason to say anything if what I say is going to be labelled something it was never meant to be. Some people do that when others says such things, while others become combative on a given subject. This is one topic I will just be quiet and go my own way on it, because I see no reason to continue if I canāt get reliable info in which to learn. That said, I do not see how any of that helps people to learn anything, especially if itās not a pseudoscience.
No no one is coming into my life and threatening to harm me nor am I going to harm others, but they do demand we fall in line with their thinking and in my sonās case, he could just cut me out of his life, like he has his father (for more than just this topic), so I just keep my mouth shut, unless I know the person understands that I am seeking actual knowledge. I love my son, who calls himself agender wanting none gender words, too much to say something stupid or something he wonāt understand that Iām speaking for myself or joking. Heās not hurting anyone with such ideas, that I donāt necessarily agree with, so I say nothing about it, but he knows how I view myself and thatās OK with him. I also agree, Wikipedia is not a reliable source and shouldnāt be used for this topic as an informative source.
There is no mass of people who all think alike within some borders of an LGBT+ community. They argue amongst themselves just like all of us. So there isnāt some line that has been or will be crossed where I will āno longer take itā.
Exactly and we wonāt find agreement in the general public, but this is not a topic that should push people to the corner, causing them to be quiet nor should people become aggressive (verbally or physically on either side) about it either. Iām a fence sitter on this topic and I see nothing wrong with this. Iāve been a fence sitter on a lot of things until I have enough reliable info on a topic to make an informed decision about it and even then I might not take a side. However, I wonāt be pushed into giving lip service to something I donāt understand. Iād rather just sit on the sidelines and say nothing if I canāt say anything without someone accusing me of something Iām not trying to be.
No no one is coming into my life and threatening to harm me nor am I going to harm others, but they do demand we fall in line with their thinking -- mrianaA lot of people that can't harm me, that don't agree with me, that have nothing better to do, and are just plain wrong, want me to fall in line with their thinking. I can't give them my time or energy. I try to keep an eye on them enough, in case they get to be a problem. LGBT+ is not a problem.
Other than that, your thread is very lengthy, so sorry if I missed anything important.
and are just plain wrong
Healthline website isnāt a reliable source. I bet I could go on Medscape or NEJM or JAMA and not find that info anywhere.Correct. Those arenāt āscientificā terms but they are fairly common among young people.
You condemn people who mock others for their peculiarities, yet you persist in calling them āidiotsā yourself.I have seen many times this argument in the past only to realize that it is one of the greatest fundamental problems that plague this forum. I myself am willing to recognize that I had possibly done this without even realizing it. I ask any and everyone to look at this and see where the problem lies. I'll get to the rest of your post later, but after I explain where you went wrong on this.
LGBT+ is not a problem.
I never said it was, but apparently because I want to learn about transgenderism via the science, Iām the bad guy. As I said, comments like āyouāre being dismissiveā and a demand I say āoh yes, we shouldnāt label ourselves male or female because there are upteen gendersā (not exactly scientific) and give lip service without knowledge or understanding, I basically have no choice but to sit in the corner and not ask for knowledge. This is a big problem, IMO, but OK, as I said, Iāll go sit in the corner and not ask to see scientific studies on this to learn more about the subject, because Iām wrong for doing so. This is what sets me off- not being allowed to ask questions and seek scientific knowledge or even find a way to relate to information on what I do understand. Thank you very much for the education or rather lack thereof, which is why the transgender community isnāt doing quite as well as the gay, lesbians, and bisexual community. They donāt want to educate. They want to demand lip service, which I get the feeling youāve fallen in line with, because youāre not educating. Iām now done, sitting in the corner, with no further (reliable) knowledge (not pseudoscience) on the subject. This is what you missed, but even this probably too long.