Non-Gender Binary

[mitch70]

10 years ago (if not longer) I posted these issues that could come across when accepting people who deem themselves as being non-gender binary. DarronS wanted me banned for even bringing this up, but after his post about the problems that had been coming up with accepting the non-binary model, I called him out on my previous arguments on so easily accepting the TG as a norm in the US will ultimately create bigger problems.

I was fighting to be nice and neutral to explain the ramifications of accepting a personal identity over a social identity, but I became the antagonist. When came time to see the problems all of what had I posted to DarronS, even in PM, had been ignored (Moderators hopefully can find this). Eventually, we never saw his post again. He probably had personal reasons to leave, but I wanted to confront him with it much the same that I had argued with Occam personally many times over lunch.

I won’t bother with the details. I’ll just ask simple questions for this forum for those who had children.

When your child was born, did you question your child’s gender?
Were you able to get a full explanation of genderism and how your child’s genitals were not an indication of your child’s gender?
Are you ok with doctors telling you your wrong to say your son is a boy even though he has a penis or vice versa?

I think it’s easy to ignore these questions or maybe convoluded them in a bent way so you can justify a belief you’ve held dear. So at my work, I was indoctrinated to believe that gender is fluid by a government agency in California. I have to laugh when I read back to people saying on this forum. “How does it affect you?” I saw how it would, and I now today see how it is affecting me", but the good news is, I’ve already planned to leave the business I’m in and move to create a business from my past experiences. I’ve learned to be patient and watch what happens. Don’t fight for what you believe, just watch others die and then take over. It’s much safer that way, and no liberal can cry about this as this is the game they’ve created. I great up liberal, but what few people here haven’t seen, is that liberalism has changed a great deal since we’ve grown up.

[citizenschallengev4]

@mitch70

non-gender binary

I’m a bit sheltered. What is that? First time I’ve heard the term.

[write4u]

[quote=“mitch70, post:1, topic:8350”]

> non-gender binary

[quote=“citizenschallengev4, post:2, topic:8350”]

I’m a bit sheltered. What is that? First time I’ve heard the term.

“NEON”

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Neon or rather Neons can converse and sympathise like real human beings. The AI also understands Hindi, Spanish and other languages.

Meet Neon, the world’s first ‘Artificial Human’

“Won’t be long now”……“my smart cousin GPT3 just needs a Neon body”.

[morgankane01]

To sum-up non binary gender people are people who don’t identify with a genre, masculine or feminine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-binary_gender

Sorry, if i repeat myself, but for me:slight_smile:

• 99 % of people are born with an genetically assigned sex, male or female
• Most people have a sexual orientation, heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual, some being asexual,
• Most people identify psychologically themselves to a sex, male or female, some are binary and don’t identify to a fixed sex

And socially, genres are set of behaviors socially constructed, defining the way a person of a given sex must behave. To caricature, traditionally and i say traditionally, men are strong, assertive, knowledgeable in politics leading, wear pants and neck ties, women wear skirts or dresses, are modest, shy and take care of children and house, and go to church.

More and more people reject theses assigned genres.

Some people are transsexual, benefit from a surgery and solve the difficulty. the only difference is that, after surgery, a transsexual cannot be a direct generic father or mother. It is not a problem except in some very specific situations. for instance a sportman who become a feminine athlete has an advantage in some sports over a genetically feminine one.

A non binary person is not a problem as long as it accept to be treated as a member of is physical sex in very specific situations.

The true matter is about people who don’t identify to their genetic gender, identify to the other sex, but don’t want to get surgery. They want to be treated as members of their psychological sex,

For me, the matter is mainly in very specific circumstances. For instance, in the dress room of a sport club, in jail and so.

But, nowadays, their mere existence create other troubles and i give two exemples:

• in a women group, on the net, some women create a a forum to talk about their periods and some transgenres protest as they claim that it is a way to exclude them.

• in a women group, only " true women" are accepted and no genetically born woman is accepted.

In fact, the true question is: Who is a woman ? who is a man ? "

[lausten]

@mitch70

Your question, like you often do, is loaded. It’s leading. I’m not answering for that reason. You should look up those terms. It would be nicer talking to you if you didn’t do that

[write4u]

[quote=“morgankane01, post:4, topic:8350”]

In fact, the true question is: Who is a woman ? who is a man ? "

So, what do you call a non-gender binary?.. “IT”?

[mriana]

@mitch70

When your child was born, did you question your child’s gender?
Were you able to get a full explanation of genderism and how your child’s genitals were not an indication of your child’s gender?
Are you ok with doctors telling you your wrong to say your son is a boy even though he has a penis or vice versa?

No, I never questioned my sons’ gender. They have always been boys to me. I never was told or explained question #2. There are two genders, but now days people identify some really strange incomprehensible things. No one has ever said any differently- even to the doctors, my sons have always been boys. After 32 years, my older son says he’s agender. I don’t get it, but I still love him. That said, I was born female (not assigned), always been female, always will be female, and will die as a female.

@citizenschallengev4

I’m a bit sheltered. What is that? First time I’ve heard the term.

Non-binary means they do not identify as either, dress any way they want- boy, girl, or both- and the pronouns they prefer are they, them, theirs (or at least for my agender son).

@morgankane01

99 % of people are born with an genetically assigned sex, male or female

I was not assigned. I am what I am and always will be. I love pink, girl things, etc and I’m definitely a mother.

@morgankane01

More and more people reject theses assigned genres.

I don’t, because I was never assigned. It was the correct label at my birth and I came out kicking and screaming “I’m a girl” while showing it off.

That said, I love my son and I really don’t care if he has long hair (had it since high school), wears make-up sometimes, sometimes wears a dress… etc. I still love him, but it’s difficult adjusting to gender neutral words. It’s much easier not tell his father, whom I’ve been divorced from since he was 2. His brother may find out eventually, but I’ll let my older son tell his little brother.

@morgankane01

in a women group, on the net, some women create a a forum to talk about their periods and some transgenres protest as they claim that it is a way to exclude them.

Funny, I think nature did that already.

@morgankane01

in a women group, only " true women" are accepted and no genetically born woman is accepted.

A true woman is genetically female, not transgender.

@morgankane01

Who is a woman ?

Can she have a baby? Then she is a woman. Or better yet, the question should be, does she have a uterus? Then she is definitely a woman. Does she have an XX chromosome? Then she’s a woman.

@morgankane01

who is a man ?

Can he create sperm? Then he is a man. Does he have an XY chromosome? then he’s male.

Now, what they choose to be is another matter and I’m OK if they chose to be female, male, non-binary/agender, as long as they are intending me harm, I’m fine and they are fine.

@write4u

So, what do you call a non-gender binary?.. “ IT ”?

No, although according to me son, some are OK with that, but he prefers they, them, theirs and gender neutral words. Again, despite what I said above, I’m ok with it, even if I don’t understand it. Maybe it’s not something this 50-something, not assigned at birth female is meant to understand. It’s his decision, but as I told him, after 32 years of him being my son, it will take time to adjust, but it would be even harder if he decided he was trans to get use to, even if I always wanted a daughter. I’d adjust though and I will adjust- with time.

[mitch70]

What spawned this was I had to go through this elongated ultra-leftist training video at my work created by the California Department of Fair Employment and Housing.

https://sexual-harassment-prevention-training.dfeh.ca.gov/NonSupervisoryEnglish/story.html

Edit

I have no problem with the sections about what not to do to other employees as most of them are blatantly obvious such as

Don’t court sex with other employees
Don’t rub up against other employees
Don’t make mock gay people for being gay

It’s all low-hanging fruit of morality, but the video goes on to tell you that not saying “thank you” is unacceptable behavior. RYFKM? The rest of the video got worse as they crame their extremist left ideology on you. If this is what the left is becoming, then I really want no part of it.

[mriana]

@mitch70

RYFKM?

Not sure what that stands for. As for the extreme left, I’m not keen on everything they say, despite being a lefty. Some of it makes no sense and sometimes I wonder if my older son has been brainwashed due to the crowd he runs with. That said, I still love him no matter what, even if I don’t understand him. I’m OK if he wants to wear makeup (he does). Michael Jackson and Sir Patrick Stewart wore/wear make-up.

[write4u]

[quote=“mitch70, post:8, topic:8350”]

It’s all low-hanging fruit of morality, but the video goes on to tell you that not saying “thank you” is unacceptable behavior.

When I look at Orientals and especially Japanese etiquette I always admire the gracious social behavior . Thanking people for minor favors is indeed low hanging fruit but to the recipient of the expression of appreciation that fruit tastes very good.

[mitch70]

RYFKM = Are You Freaking Kidding Me

[mitch70]

@write4u

It’s all low-hanging fruit of morality, but the video goes on to tell you that not saying “thank you” is unacceptable behavior.

When I look at Orientals and especially Japanese etiquette I always admire the gracious social behavior . Thanking people for minor favors is indeed low hanging fruit but to the recipient of the expression of appreciation that fruit tastes very good.

I don’t mind the etiquette so much as unacceptable means lawsuit in the business world.

[citizenschallengev4]

@mriana

Non-binary

Back in my day we just called it bi-sexual.

Binary just makes me think of dots and dashes.
Binary is involving two things, non-binary is involving nothing?

@mriana

I love pink, girl things, etc and I’m definitely a mother.

And probably have a heck of wink, when you choose to employ it.

Over all these sound like problems for people who have too much time on their hands.

[lausten]

@citizenschallengev4

non-binary is involving nothing?

It means it’s not a simple either/or choice. Have you looked at how to define M/F? There are many tests, and a person can get results from different tests.

[mriana]

@citizenschallengev4

Back in my day we just called it bi-sexual.

Non-binary and bisexual are two different things. Bisexual deals with having sex with males and females. Non-binary deals with perceived gender and is neither male or female.

@citizenschallengev4

Binary just makes me think of dots and dashes.
Binary is involving two things, non-binary is involving nothing?

yes and with people who think they are neither male or female, I guess it is a perception of nothing, neither… I don’t know.

@citizenschallengev4

And probably have a heck of wink, when you choose to employ it.

Maybe and I love being a girl. lol

@citizenschallengev4

Over all these sound like problems for people who have too much time on their hands.

Maybe and maybe it’s just a fad and it will go away, then we won’t have figure out any of this silly gender stuff. I don’t get it, but I do know non-binary is not bisexual. Some binary people are asexual and some binary people are polyamorous, like my son (that too seems like it’s an HIV inducing fad to me, but what do you do?).

@lausten

There are many tests, and a person can get results from different tests.

I had no idea there were tests for this stuff. My question is, is it actually real science or pseudoscience?

[citizenschallengev4]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that there was a difference.
Now I’m thinking of the social scene between then and now. I graduated high school in '73, every one wanted to do it one way or the other.
Now days, post AIDS and especially now, mid COVID and dead-end economic hopes, and climate realities coming home to roost - getting out and touching another person and having sex just isn’t what young people have on their minds. Then the thoughts of trading all those precious bodily fluids.

Hands and imagination, or internet, in the privacy of one’s own room does the trick. I guess.

@mriana

polyamorous

Oh dear, dare I ask?

@mriana

Maybe and maybe it’s just a fad and it will go away, then we won’t have figure out any of this silly gender stuff.

Well, yeah, it’s always been about figuring out one’s own silly gender stuff, and to each generation their own.

Seems to me more a reflection of the society than the issues. I say that because off-norm sexual identity has been a constant throughout our human history. It’s biology and it’s environmental/social. People have always had to figure out themselves and how to fit in within who they are.

How we’ve simply conjured more fancy words and fanciful notion to fill the palette.

Same song, different tune.

[citizenschallengev4]

Oh and how much of all this is simply the media playing wag the dog.
Like they did with the whole '60 counter-culture, drug and sex thing.

It’s always way different from the inside, then from the eye’s of a salacious audience bored with their own humdrum.

[write4u]

Here is an example of a non-gender binary.

[mriana]

@citizenschallengev4

Oh dear, dare I ask?

It’s where you can love more than one person, but you don’t be having sex with everyone you love all at the same time, like a menage a trois.

Polyamory

@citizenschallengev4

Seems to me more a reflection of the society than the issues. I say that because off-norm sexual identity has been a constant throughout our human history. It’s biology and it’s environmental/social. People have always had to figure out themselves and how to fit in within who they are.

Maybe. I think it’s more of a fad, like bell bottoms and platform shoes, except instead of material things during a bad economy, they’ve turned inward to make a new fad. I could be wrong and if I am, maybe by that time I won’t be struggling to accept such an idea. For now, all I can do is continue to love my son, whom I love very dearly.

@citizenschallengev4

Oh and how much of all this is simply the media playing wag the dog.
Like they did with the whole '60 counter-culture, drug and sex thing.

Maybe, but then you have my son and the crowd he runs with, which makes me think it’s just a fad, much like hippies.

@write4u

Here is an example of a non-gender binary.

What? No, I don’t think so. I think my son could do better. I think you are showing someone who is trans, not non-binary. BTW, is that an overgrown Barbie sex toy?

[write4u]

[quote=“mriana, post:19, topic:8350”]

BTW, is that an overgrown Barbie sex toy?

Yes, she is a lifesize, anatomically correct doll with a computer inside.

IT is a true artificial Non-gender Binary representation of a human.