On the Abortion Rights Question - do transgender people have standing, even when men don't

Anyone feel like weighing in on a comment I received? I’m having a tough time with the comment since, on the one hand I appreciate human feelings and I’ve no fundamental problem with gay or transgender people. That’s because basically I’m a live and let live kinda person, being respectful and kind to each other is what matters. (Of course, this is an ideal and I make no claims to always having lived up to it, but it’s the standard I strive for and am getting better at as the years pile on.)

Still I’m really flummoxed by the comment I received regarding this sentence and it has made me realize I don’t know much about what a transgender person is actually supposed to be about.

When push comes to shove, a just law would clearly acknowledge that a woman’s life is more precious to her existing family and society than an unborn potentiality.

The comment reads:

If you limit this discussion to women, you are unwittingly keeping trans people out of the conversation. Not all people who can get pregnant identify as she/her or woman. Therefore it may be more appropriate and inclusive to refer to “women and pregnant people.”

“Pregnant People” simply doesn’t compute for me, even after chewing on it a few days.
Identify as you must, since I believe most often it’s driven by biological circumstances.
Choose to call yourself what you want, live your life the way you have to, but gestating and birthing a baby is what female is all about biologically speaking.

Of course, we’re in this insane human-is-god phase of our evolution and these days a test tube can theoretically birth a child. So does that mean all bets are off and that we should start adopting the notion that any “person” can produce a child? It doesn’t make sense to me.

I mean even trans people have an obligation to respect others along with physical reality, so taking offense at the notion of believing only a woman gets pregnant (regardless of what she “identifies” as), ergo it’s women who are the ones exposed to the personal crisis of an unwanted pregnancy and having to face the abortion option. Being offended by that seems out of bounds for me.

Any thoughts?

On the Abortion Rights Question, Considering The Fundamentals

I want to start with the greatest truth humanity has achieved: we are born out of Earth’s processes. It’s a truth born out of our increasing understanding of human history going back into the dimmest reaches of Earth’s deep time. Beginning with geology, then biology joined in, then complex biology, then living sensing creatures that created environments and ecology on an ever changing Earth. Folds within folds of cumulative harmonic complexity flowing down the cascade of time, rushing into a future inhabited by humans.

Birth and death is our lot. It has always been part and parcel of our human condition. It can’t be moralized out of existence by idealistic extremists who believe “God” is personally speaking with them.

Pregnancy is never a guarantee. A fetus is a germinated seed, a being, a human potentiality. Spontaneous miscarriages, natural abortions happen all the time. A fetus may be a human, but it doesn’t take on the mantle of personhood until those first breaths of life-giving air are infusing its lungs and pumping through its arteries and veins.

It should be significant that the fact of practicing abortions is older than civilizations, with Jewish scripture going into details on the topic, explaining why within particular circumstance abortion is a sad inevitability and that it is okay in the eyes of their God. (God never promised us a rose garden!)

Beyond that, in a free society, legally speaking, why doesn’t a woman deserve the Right to Self-Defense along with Sovereignty Over Her Own Body?

Pregnancy is a difficult gauntlet, always will be, there will be deaths. Those deaths aren’t confined to unborn beings, all too often the mother is also at mortal risk.

When push comes to shove, a just law would clearly acknowledge that a woman’s life is more precious to her existing family and society than an unborn potentiality.

Another factor all too often forgotten is that facing an abortion situation is nothing any woman (or young girl & her family) ever wants, life thrusts the situation upon her, and it is foremost she, herself, who must continue carrying the consequences of her choices, as others lose interest with the passage of time.

Another unspoken matter is that most often she’s also acting with the best interest of the unborn life within her at heart. The fetus inside of her will always matter more to herself, than to any moralizing bystanders. Women should be entrusted above all others, with the responsibility of making their own best informed choices about their own pregnancies.

The first line in the last paragraph says it all. The simple reality is that Biology always rules.

This is in the who gives a rats arse basket

I do, that’s why I asked.

What’s with the attitude?

because its a non issue talking point propagated by the “anti woke” right wing freaks

A few “freaks” can wreak havoc among “normal” people, woke or not.

Dont join them!!!

And how exactly does that stop them from doing anything at all?

p.s. with “freaks” I do NOT mean TG people. They pose no threat to anyone.
I mean the freaks with AR 15s who terrorize people even when they mind their own business.

Example: that right-wing freak M T Green who stalked a school shooting survivor with her crazy talk;

Marjorie Taylor Greene mocked Parkland survivor in unearthed video: An ‘idiot’ who’s trained ‘like a dog’

"She said she repeatedly tried to get Hogg to respond to her, telling him: “Do you realize that if there had been guards with guns at your school that are trained that Nicolas Cruz would not have killed 17 people in your high school? Good guys with guns hurt bad guys with guns, they’ll kill them, and it will reduce the number of deaths.”

By all means, let’s have a “shoot-out at the O.K. corral” during school hours, just like in days of old (1881).

This freak advocates for personal rights until it comes to abortion rights.

Marjorie Taylor Greene Says Satan ‘Sells Abortion’ to Women

4/30/22 AT 6:53 AM EDT

While I don’t understand trans or this agender/non-binary stuff, if one is born physically female, regardless if they feel they are male or no gender at all, they are still able to become pregnant, if they have not had gender reassignment surgery. Therefore, they have every right to weigh in on the subject too. Of course, I also believe, if the male is married to the female and is privy to her health issues, then he has the privilege to weigh in also. About the only thing my first husband and I didn’t have an issue with was when my second child had to come early (1 month early) due to H.E.L.L.P. Syndrome. The only cure for that is to give birth early, thereby, basically terminating the pregnancy. The doctor, despite being a Catholic hospital, asked us both if push came to shove, who we wanted them to save and we both chose me to be saved, but I clarified and requested they save us both, if they could. My current husband would say the same also, if I wasn’t past menopause and capable of still having children and the same scenario occurred.

On the other hand, Marjorie Taylor Greene is an idiot on the subject of guns and abortion. She supports arming more people, in school, where there are children, in order to kill others, namely the bad guy, yet calls herself pro-life, regardless if the mother and/or infant dies in the process of birth. She is pro-death and is so stupid that she doesn’t even realize she is pro-death.

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Okay, I’m not arguing against that. This is more about how appropriate using the term is, specifically.

It’s specifically about the person birthing the child.
Thanks for sharing, it’s serious opinions like your’s I was interesting in hearing.

(I did choose deliberately provocative wording in that title.)

I like the very respectful wording. I’ve heard of things like using “person with a penis” instead of “biological male”. I don’t think I’ll be doing that. Seems like a confusion of “gender” with “sex”. They are two different things, so, you can identify as male gender if you want, but still be a female sexually. I think. What do I know,

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The trans male was born female and only females can procreate. However, since she decided that their gender was not she, but rather he, they can or at least potentially can become pregnant, depending on the amount of testosterone in their system and if they have not had gender reassignment surgery. In order to become pregnant, they’d have to stop taking testosterone. However, there are a lot of people who aren’t ready to see that. Then again, a lot of their feminine traits would start to return without testosterone. It is a complicated topic.

Good succinct summary.

Also just realized this brings us right back to the most fundamental of fundaments, physical reality vs. mind divide.

body/brain vs. mind

Mind over matter is important, but matter still matters.

{Happy Birthday Lausten! }

Maybe they are talking about, because here’s my point about being born female and later becoming male. Internally, they are still female, unless they also get that removed too when they have gender reassignment surgery.

These two articles show what looks to be overweight men, but no, they are pregnant and having a baby. Some get pregnant through penetration, which means they only had the upper half done and others did IVF. If they didn’t have the lower half done, I’m sure they can give birth vaginally, but if they did, it would be IVF and cesarian (I can’t spell it and spell checker is no help.)