Trans-identity has gained some real steam since I 2010 when I argued with Occam

@mirana I watched an animated video on the m/f procedure and it’s a ball breaker, to say the least.

Snip, cut, remove, stitch, tape, gum, string.

I had to watch the video sitting cross-legged. What was interesting though is just how complex the whole procedure had been. It doesn’t end there. There’s a whole dilation period that goes on that they have to do for the rest of their lives. The trans women videos really gave a lot of insight into their lifestyles, most of which seemed pretty positive. There was one trans who had been maybe in their mid 60’s and she had regretted ever having the procedure ever done. She explained that throughout her life she would have work done to bring her closer to becoming a woman, but nothing was ever good enough. Even when she had a complete transition she still found herself to be miserable. She said by the time she realized what had been going on that it was too late. She wasn’t unhappy about being a man, she was just unhappy with who she was. She was having an identity crisis and thought that the transition would have brought happiness into her life. Unfortunately, it didn’t, but I hope if not believe that her knowing what her problem is, can move her in the right direction to possibly fixing the problem.

Edit

BTW You owe me a new monitor.

 

Hey @thatoneguy - Don’t forget to bring up all the transgenders joining the military just to get a free operation ?

 

I don’t think many are joining, but the fact that the government is even going that far is absurd.

So I grow up an athletic boy.

Join the military to get a free gender change operation

And then compete in the Olympics as a female to win a Gold Medal!

That should have been my plan all along ?

 

 

@mitch70 It’s either a case of “loving pain/glutton for punishment” or “not for sissies” or real determination to be something they were not born as. Whatever the case, it can’t be undone once done.

BTW You owe me a new monitor.

lol Gotcha good huh? New monitor coming soon. In the meantime, try some Windex sprayed on a cloth and wipe the screen with it.

Seriously though, I’m surprised more people who physically change their gender don’t regret it. I can’t fathom being the opposite of what I was born and I do not believe as my son does, that I’ve been brainwashed to be and think female. I am female- born, always lived, and will die that way. I am XX, which makes me who and what I am, not a societal brainwashing. I love pink, my grandmother loved pink, we dressed alike (thanks to her sewing skills), and enjoyed life together since the day I was born until her death at the age of 94. She would never think of herself as anything but a female and I can’t even fathom being anything but what I am- female. Now does this mean we couldn’t climb trees, play with toy cars, tend livestock, dig holes (for vegetables), and then turn around and needle point, play with dolls, crochet… no it did not and does not. In fact, my grandfather wanted all his girls (my grandmother, my mother, my aunt, and me) to know how to check the fluids in the car and even change a tire if we had to. Being born male or female doesn’t mean you anything you can do I can’t or vise versa. OK so maybe a man can’t give birth to a baby, so there are some exceptions, and I haven’t met any man who wanted to pass a watermelon out his penis, but this is what makes us humans and human beings who can procreate for generations. Those who change their physical bodies still have the chromosomes they were born with, but once they have a doctor change their external, they are done contributing to the gene pool. So if they want kids, they have to adopt after that, but if they don’t do that, they can stop taking hormones at any point and have kids. So a trans man can stop taking male hormones and become pregnant, if he hasn’t had the surgery. In which case, you have a “man” born female, dressing male, without male hormones, pregnant- which blows my mind. This is where I stop thinking about it, because it gets really (choose the word of your choice). Even so, a man (XY) can never give birth to a baby. Only the XX can do that and these are people born female. That cannot be changed, despite what the Trans community want to believe, because a XX person consuming male hormones to have male (XY) features (without surgery to alter the external) still has XX chromosomes and when they stop taking those hormones, the XX hormones return to normal levels so they can conceive and carry a fetus to term. That’s the only way one born XX can have kids. No one XY can do that, not even in nature. Only XX can do that. While trans can take hormones and surgically alter their external features to appear the opposite of what they were born, they cannot change the XX or the XY chromosomes. It’s the XX and XY that give us our external features, as well as reproductive abilities. Now the agender stuff might be who people hang with. I don’t know, but the fact still remains, the XX and XY is about reproduction- females give birth to and males sire the offspring. Now, if there is a creature or creatures in nature who change their gender and can reproduce afterwards as that gender we know I’ll reconsider that position, but humans haven’t been able to do that trick yet.

All that said though, as long as they aren’t hurting anyone, I really don’t care how they wish to present themselves, just don’t tell me we are “assigned at birth”, because I know I was not “assigned” any gender. I was born and always will be female, with XX chromosomes.

1 Like

It’s not “what you were born as”, it’s “what you were assigned”. At birth, the doctor takes a quick look between your legs and picks M or F. That is not a complete diagnosis of your gender. Even the XX and XY can be expressed differently. You can have a Y, but there are other things that have to happen to activate the male, or you can have a Y but it is not activated, so you appear and feel female. I don’t know the details. All the variations are discussed in the first half-hour of this radio show:

@lausten

It’s not “what you were born as”, it’s “what you were assigned”.

I don’t know about you, but I came out kicking and screaming, “I’m a girl!” And I showed it all off at that moment for the whole world to see. OK maybe that room, but I wasn’t assigned anything. Maybe you were, maybe others were, but I wasn’t. I am what I am and you can judge this book by it’s cover. Too bad after I was born they said I had to hide it, but that’s OK. I found other ways to show off as a girl.

Yeah, I know Popeye is a boy, but Olive would have sung it too if given the opportunity, but that said, if that doesn’t work for you…

If that’s not enough for you then I can play, “I was born this way” by Lady Gaga, even though she meant it for the LGBT community. It still applies.

If that’s not enough for you then I can play, “I was born this way” by Lady Gaga,
Before you pooped your first poop, a doctor put an X in a box, determining your gender. No one knows what male and female mean until they begin to acquire language. And our culture has not figured out how to match language to biology, that's the problem. That's what cis-gender means. It means you identify with the gender that the doctor said you were. There's nothing wrong with you doing that, but the song is saying that as someone matures and finds out they are attracted to people with the same box checked as them, or they prefer things, like expressing their feelings in a way that doesn't match the gender on their birth certificate. What those people are finding out is; they were born as someone that doesn't fit the narrow definitions of our culture. It might be something that can be confirmed by looking at hormone levels or their DNA, but it might not.

Excuse me, but ultrasounds didn’t exist when I was born and as I said, I came out kicking and screaming “I’m a girl”. No one assigned me a gender. The only thing I was ever assigned was homework. That’s me, however, not you or anyone else on the forum, because I know what I am and I know what I’ve always have been- female, XX, a girl, a woman. To be honest, I don’t know what it feels to be anything else but me, which is female, but that said, I do not know what it means to say, “I feel as though I’m female.” I only know what I feel like and I know what words are used for that. As I said, I’m not speaking for you or anyone else on the forum.

Excuse me, but ultrasounds didn’t exist when I was born and as I said, I came out kicking and screaming “I’m a girl”. No one assigned me a gender. The only thing I was ever assigned was homework. That’s me, however, not you or anyone else on the forum, because I know what I am and I know what I’ve always have been- female, XX, a girl, a woman. To be honest, I don’t know what it feels to be anything else but me, which is female, but that said, I do not know what it means to say, “I feel as though I’m female.” I only know what I feel like and I know what words are used for that. As I said, I’m not speaking for you or anyone else on the forum.
There are a lot of people today that would find your radical ideas of you accepting yourself for who you are as hurtful, divisive, and non-inclusive of the marginalized minority.

Did I get that right anyone? I think I’m on to something here but I’m not “woke” enough to fully confirm this. I also have questions on how many genders now exist. Last I heard we were up to 47, but there may be more. Does anyone have an updated full list of all the genders?

Edit

@mriana To be clear, I’m not seriously attacking you on this. ?

I’m kidding in some ways, but I’m also dead serious. The big push for a while now is that there are not just 2 genders, but multiple genders that you can choose to be. Mriana I was curious to know if you were aware of this and wanted to get your perspective. Have you heard of the multiple genders?

https://www.lgbthero.org.uk/being-non-binary?gclid=Cj0KCQjw9O6HBhCrARIsADx5qCS7Il6lwePa0E86PFLvD_viibIN5-8KYjyQ5FJQKOlKJ3spZoIPIHMaAjSaEALw_wcB

 

but multiple genders that you can choose to be. -- ex
You are talking about the most extreme. They are not influencing very many
No one assigned me a gender.
Did you fill out your own birth certificate. Some people are born a girl, but their certificate says something else.
You are talking about the most extreme. They are not influencing very many
You'd be surprised. The LGBT+ certainly supports this hence the "+" at the end. I seriously wish you were right about this one, but if you look through TikTok you'd see the influence on this ideology is quite popular.
There are a lot of people today that would find your radical ideas of you accepting yourself for who you are as hurtful, divisive, and non-inclusive of the marginalized minority.

So, transgender people can talk about themselves as being a male or female, but I cannot? They can change themselves in a way that they accept themselves, but I am not allowed to accept myself as I am? Now that’s just wrong. If people accept themselves as they are and are speaking for themselves and not others, that should not be an issue. Now I have an issue, because I’m not allowed to accept myself for who and what I am.

Did I get that right anyone?

No, that’s totally wrong, because people should be able to accept themselves for what they are, as well as accept others who want to change themselves into what they believe they are. People should be able to speak for themselves and that was what I was doing. I was not talking for my transgender inlaw.

@mriana To be clear, I’m not seriously attacking you on this. ?

I’m kidding in some ways, but I’m also dead serious. The big push for a while now is that there are not just 2 genders, but multiple genders that you can choose to be. Mriana I was curious to know if you were aware of this and wanted to get your perspective. Have you heard of the multiple genders?

The pendulum always eventually swings to center. Hopefully it does this soon, because I’m not changing who I am and what I’ve always been. They can if they want. I don’t care if they do, because they aren’t hurting anyone and I’m not hurting anyone by being female. I do not want to choose to be anything else because that would not be me. It’s the same for those who want to transform to male or female or binary or whatever the heck they think they are. I don’t care, as long as I can be me and stay me and that’s all anyone wants to be.

The LGBT+ certainly supports this hence the “+” at the end.

That’s the alphabet soup. Sometimes they write LBGTQ and then add more letter to cover more… I don’t know. After LBG it makes no sense to me. sigh. Maybe I’ve become an old fart.

@lausten

No one assigned me a gender.

Did you fill out your own birth certificate. Some people are born a girl, but their certificate says something else.

There’s no reason to change it because that’s what I am- female. I was NOT assigned, despite what other may say or believe. Notice, I have been saying “I” and “me” all this time. What I am saying about myself has nothing to do with you. If you believe you are not male or that you were assigned, well that’s your business. I really don’t care what you may believe about your own gender. If you believe you were assigned, then do whatever you want to do, but as for me, I was NOT assigned. I developed in the womb as female and I was born female, I live female and always will live female to the day I die. I was NOT assigned because that’s who I am. I’m not transgender, but if I were, I can see how they would believe they were assigned and they can say they were if they want, but as I said, I was not. There’s a big difference there. One cannot be assigned something they already were and always have been.

Now here’s what I want to know- I want to get down to the science and find out how many transgender people have a chromosome that is different from their externals. In which case, XXY and XYX, and XYY, and even XXX could have various other health and mental issues. Some can have mental disabilities, learning disabilities, health issues, physical oddities, the list goes on and on, but for those who do not appear to have any issues, but want to transform (what’s the correct word?) to the opposite gender, it would be interesting to see what that chromosome is for them. I want scientific research done, but research that doesn’t do them physical harm which also includes them volunteering to participate in the research. Now there is some research that would not be ethical, unless it’s post-mortem, but even that would need consent before death, such as donating their bodies to scientific research. I really want some scientific studies done on this subject, which includes chromosomal studies. If they have one set of externals and they have XY, then what makes them feel they aren’t male? If they don’t having a match, how did it happen the two are different? If there are no differences in the brain (I need to find the psychological article that said there is no male or female brain), then what causes this dysmorphia? (yes, gender dysmorphia is still in the DSM-V) Why is there incongruity between the physical and psychological? Is there a psychology behind it? We already know people fall on a spectrum, but we also know mental illness is the extreme of the norm. HOWEVER, we are not talking about mental illness, even though transgenderism falls within the both medical and psychological. One cannot get the surgery to change themselves without living as the opposite sex for a period of time and going through a battery of psychological testing, as well as medical stuff too. So just what is the physical and psychological makeup of it all? I really want to get down to the science of it all. Keep in mind, I have a bachelors (B.S. degree) in psychology, so asking the science behind it all is all part of my curiosity with humans. Of course, I’ve always said, I could get More of it (MS) and Piled high and Deep (PhD) and still not understand humans. I’d probably go crazy if I tried to understand humans.

look through TikTok
Wow. Do you realize you just validated what I said? Turn the screen off. Go outside
What I am saying about myself has nothing to do with you
@mriana, we are having different conversations here

@lausten

we are having different conversations here

We are? You said in response to me saying “I was not assigned”, “Did you fill out your own birth certificate. Some people are born a girl, but their certificate says something else.”

And I replied to you. I don’t understand the people who feel a different gender. I can’t even put into words what it feels like to be female. For me, it’s a state of being, but a feeling it is not. So when a transgender person says, they were born into a male body, but feel like a female, I’m not sure what those words mean and I am female. I like the colour pink, makeup, dressing really nicely for my husband, but a feeling it is not for me. It’s just a state of being. I don’t even have a concept what it would feel like to be male even. I just know what I am. It’s like having blue eyes and dark brown hair. I’d love brown eyes, like my sons’ eyes, but I don’t “feel” like I was born a “brown eye” person in a “blue eye” body. Male and female are descriptions, but not feelings. Feelings are happy, sad, depressed, anxious, excited, elated… but being female isn’t a feeling. It’s just a state of being. I don’t understand any of this. I would like to comprehend it and the only way I know how to figure out any of this is through science, because I can’t walk in their shoes.

I don’t understand the people who feel a different gender. -- Mriana
Yes, and you are being uncharacteristically dismissive of people who do feel a different gender. That's what the topic is, but you are talking about you. Not everyone agrees with the gender that the birthing doctor said they are, their parents say they are, their outward appearance seems to indicate they are. The RadioLab link I provided gave an example of genitals that were ambiguous and the parents and doctor decided they should pick one gender and "fix" that person. It messed up their life.

@lausten

The RadioLab link I provided gave an example of genitals that were ambiguous and the parents and doctor decided they should pick one gender and "fix" that person. It messed up their life.

I’ve heard of stories like that and those I can comprehend, but that’s not the people we are necessarily talking about, but they are a subset of the group we are talking about.

BTW, I’m not trying to be dismissive. I honestly don’t understand it.