Why should a person get to define their gender?

Practice some critical thinking Beltane. Construct an argument explaining why it is acceptable to discriminate against transgender people.
Who said anything about discrimination. I'm talking about non-association. Two different things. Oh yeah. Separate but equal. Got ya.
The parking lots and Super Bowls comments was a literary reference. Pretty obscure, I admit, but if you think about it Europeans committed deliberate genocide because they believed themselves superior to the native peoples who occupied the Americas. This bigotry survives into the 21st Century. I brought up the Native Americans because many tribes recognized five to six sexes, and those who lived no traditional sexual roles were not only accepted but revered.
Wow that's a stretch. If we really think about it we can make the connection? Europeans, Genocide, Native Americans.....transgendered? Oh yeah. That makes sense! The Native Americans also kept slaves, practiced animism, human sacrifices and had no written language Darron. Just to name a few things. Is all that stuff cool too? Because the Indians did it? What a ridiculous argument on multiple levels.
Too many people out today want to use dumb labels like "BIGOT" to scare everyone off. The joke is, these people have no idea what the word bigot even means. It's such a buzz word right now that the people who are crying the word are actually being bigots themselves. XDDD
Hmmm, is that anything like the way you are using the word "bigot" against Liberals? When did that become the topic under discussion? I thought we were talking about transgenders, not Liberalism.
TG is not an easy topic to discuss, and there's an elephant in the room that modern Liberalism wants to completely ignore. You can say your gender is a man, but it doesn't mean you're physically a man, and vice verse.
Not ignoring it at all. As Lois pointed out (and everyone but me apparently ignored) "gender" refers to words, not sex. Look at it this way -- male and female are physical traits, describing the actual hardware you are born with. Masculine and feminine are more like the sexual roles we play, and we all know that sexual roles are not as hard and fast as they used to be. In fact "masculine" and "feminine" are just our cultural conventions and have no basis in biology anyway. Transgenders just come out say what we all know, that each of us is a mixture of masculine and feminine traits. What difference does it make what organs you have under your pants, I mean, in everyday contact?
Look at it this way -- male and female are physical traits
They're also psychological, biological and chemical traits.
Masculine and feminine are more like the sexual roles we play,
Oh is that what it is? It's just simply like a play. Like pretend? Transgenderism is a disorder. Just like other forms of dysphoria and psychological identity conflicts. You don't get to just explain it away like your talking to a 4th grader here.
In fact "masculine" and "feminine" are just our cultural conventions and have no basis in biology anyway
:lol: You just make up your own "science" universe now is that it?
Transgenders just come out say what we all know, that each of us is a mixture of masculine and feminine traits. What difference does it make what organs you have under your pants, I mean, in everyday contact?
Transgenderism, as well as lot's of other psychological disorders that are more prevalent in these late times are most likely a symptom of various stresses upon societies caused by overpopulation. That's most likely the answer.
"Hmmm, is that anything like the way you are using the word "bigot" against Liberals? When did that become the topic under discussion? I thought we were talking about transgenders, not Liberalism."
Seriously people here need to know what a bigot is. It's an intolerance of other peoples views. Just because I disagree doesn't make me a bigot. If I go out, and refuse to let people express their point, attack them, or berate them on every corner for having different views, then that would make me a bigot. This is EXACTLY what modern liberals have been doing in the past two years. (I'm being conservative with my numbers.
In fact "masculine" and "feminine" are just our cultural conventions and have no basis in biology anyway.
My brain just farted a little when I read this.
What difference does it make what organs you have under your pants, I mean, in everyday contact?
So you wouldn't mind me being a 46 year old guy going into the little girls room to take a piss? Maybe I don't look the role, but I can certainly say that the reason I was in there was because I get to say I'm a woman inside. Also, you're missing my other point. Gender is now being recognized as non-binary. Now we can to redefine gender all together. There are about (example. Hirs, Fairy, Queer). What's being pushed now is the idea that it's all a construct of the mind, and that gender has no standard that everyone can agree upon, but that it's a completely subjective title.

I have to say that this spam filter makes me want to scream!

What's being pushed now is the idea that it's all a construct of the mind, and that gender has no standard that everyone can agree upon, but that it's a completely subjective title.
Exactly. And when science becomes twisted and distorted to further an ideological cause, that's when you have to get off the train. That's when alarm bells start going off.

Very interesting thread. IMHO what we’re all suffering from is anti-Conservatism Syndrome. The Cons have been so divisive and well just plains aholes ever since Reagan came to town that it’s hard to have civil thoughts and differences of opinion. I know I feel it. I don’t want to admit even for a second that the effin Righties have a legit idea, and when I express my own opinion, I’m sick and tired of being nice about it only to get beat on the head by some Con. As this is showing itself in this thread. The underlying idea seems to be gender is turning out to be a fluid thing. And that’s very hard to rectify with our current culture. But maybe there’s nothing to it. In 50 years all bathrooms for example might be unisex (look even that term is baked into our culture). Bathrooms will be unigendered. We won’t think of a middle aged man going into a little girls bathroom as a sexually perverse thing because sex crimes will have been dealt with. Just speculating. Point being, I don’t think anyone’s being a bigot here, it’s just so hard to discuss in a civil manner something that has been tied into a complete knot.

Very interesting thread. IMHO what we're all suffering from is anti-Conservatism Syndrome. The Cons have been so divisive and well just plains aholes ever since Reagan came to town that it's hard to have civil thoughts and differences of opinion. I know I feel it. I don't want to admit even for a second that the effin Righties have a legit idea, and when I express my own opinion, I'm sick and tired of being nice about it only to get beat on the head by some Con. As this is showing itself in this thread. The underlying idea seems to be gender is turning out to be a fluid thing. And that's very hard to rectify with our current culture. But maybe there's nothing to it. In 50 years all bathrooms for example might be unisex (look even that term is baked into our culture). Bathrooms will be unigendered. We won't think of a middle aged man going into a little girls bathroom as a sexually perverse thing because sex crimes will have been dealt with. Just speculating. Point being, I don't think anyone's being a bigot here, it's just so hard to discuss in a civil manner something that has been tied into a complete knot.
I agree that it is a complex topic, and a unisex bathroom will be the unfortunate result of all this. Here's where it all goes full retard. * A guy goes out in a dress in the red carpet. He has a full beard with hairy legs/ arms and complains that he wasn't fully accepted as being a woman. Not that anyone said anything, but that people seemed a bit off taken by the whole situation. I'm all for a person living their life how they want, but your rights end where others begin. Other people don't have to conform to your delusions. * Thomas Beatie is the first man to get pregnant. Not that she was ever a man to begin with, but identified herself as a man. This made MAJOR headlines as though a man actually had a baby, and she received liberal praises from around the world. * Men do not belong in womens sports, period. I don't care if you're taking hormones, or have lopped of parts of your body to become a "woman". Genetically you're a male, and there's nothing you can do about that. The problem with modern liberal thinking is they like to sell the lie that you can become ANYTHING you want. The list is only getting bigger as time goes by. I'm a liberal at heart. I believe in a progressive society that adapts to better the direction of our society, but I can't stand to see what liberalism has become, so I use the term modern liberalism to distinguish what was, and what has become.

Don’t forget that there is strong lobbying taking place ensuring that this is being taught to children in school.
Teaching children that this kind of dysfunction is normal.

Don't forget that there is strong lobbying taking place ensuring that this is being taught to children in school. Teaching children that this kind of dysfunction is normal.
If you haven't already done it, you should check out Professor Jordan Peterson. He's a clinical Psychologist who refused to accept other people gender pronouns, and ended up being berated by his peer, the LGB(etc) and a slew of other groups,. He also for the first time was refused grant funding by the college with all now seem to be ultra leftist. The environment on the college campuses has become real aggressive in that you have to accept their ideology lest you be yelled at as a bigot (such irony), or in many cases physically attacked.

Yes Ex machina, I have seen some of this news. I also watched a short clip of the Prof’s statements.
Oh it’s agenda driven. It really has little to do with anyone’s sexual proclivities.

#27 gets the ribbon.

Very interesting thread. IMHO what we're all suffering from is anti-Conservatism Syndrome. The Cons have been so divisive and well just plains aholes ever since Reagan came to town that it's hard to have civil thoughts and differences of opinion. I know I feel it. I don't want to admit even for a second that the effin Righties have a legit idea, and when I express my own opinion, I'm sick and tired of being nice about it only to get beat on the head by some Con. As this is showing itself in this thread. The underlying idea seems to be gender is turning out to be a fluid thing. And that's very hard to rectify with our current culture. But maybe there's nothing to it. In 50 years all bathrooms for example might be unisex (look even that term is baked into our culture). Bathrooms will be unigendered. We won't think of a middle aged man going into a little girls bathroom as a sexually perverse thing because sex crimes will have been dealt with. Just speculating. Point being, I don't think anyone's being a bigot here, it's just so hard to discuss in a civil manner something that has been tied into a complete knot.
Odd the problems people create for themselves, when the living is too easy. Or as the religious crowd might echo:“idle hands are the devil's playground."
In 50 years all bathrooms for example might be unisex (look even that term is baked into our culture). Bathrooms will be unigendered. We won't think of a middle aged man going into a little girls bathroom as a sexually perverse thing because sex crimes will have been dealt with. Just speculating.
I felt uncomfortable with this line, even deleted my post. Only to rewrite it despite my queasiness getting through those lines. Then, just now, upon rereading the post, It comes to me - all of today's young aware women, mother's passing along their wisdom and awareness to their little girls, who are busy processing the world around them - I imagine them little girls are going to be capable of kicking ass on those twisted old guys - not only, rhetorically/psychologically, but I dare say physically, self-defensively also. Rights aren't given, they are demanded and taken. Don't underestimate those little girls. Although sadly in our real world, fifty years down the line, who's left is going to be busy with way more fundamental concerns.
Seriously people here need to know what a bigot is. It's an intolerance of other peoples views. Just because I disagree doesn't make me a bigot. If I go out, and refuse to let people express their point, attack them, or berate them on every corner for having different views, then that would make me a bigot. This is EXACTLY what modern liberals have been doing in the past two years. (I'm being conservative with my numbers.
See what I mean? Now you seem to be saying that everybody who disagrees with you is a bigot. And Liberalism seems to bother you more than your original topic did.
So you wouldn't mind me being a 46 year old guy going into the little girls room to take a piss?
I don't know. Would you really do that? But oh that would make you one of those "queers" that you're so hopped up against.
Also, you're missing my other point. Gender is now being recognized as non-binary.
That's because it is. See Lois' original point. Look, never mind. We've both made our opinions clear enough. That's good enough for me.
Seriously people here need to know what a bigot is. It's an intolerance of other peoples views. Just because I disagree doesn't make me a bigot. If I go out, and refuse to let people express their point, attack them, or berate them on every corner for having different views, then that would make me a bigot. This is EXACTLY what modern liberals have been doing in the past two years. (I'm being conservative with my numbers.
See what I mean? Now you seem to be saying that everybody who disagrees with you is a bigot. And Liberalism seems to bother you more than your original topic did.
So you wouldn't mind me being a 46 year old guy going into the little girls room to take a piss?
I don't know. Would you really do that? But oh that would make you one of those "queers" that you're so hopped up against.
Also, you're missing my other point. Gender is now being recognized as non-binary.
That's because it is. See Lois' original point. Look, never mind. We've both made our opinions clear enough. That's good enough for me. Swing, and a miss. If you really can't tell when I'm using examples, then I think it's better if you just don't get involved in this discussion.

If you don’t agree with me stay out of the discussion.
There. Fixed it for you.

If you don't agree with me stay out of the discussion. There. Fixed it for you.
Lol! You're one to talk.

ExM and VY - I do see how the left is getting too far gone, almost rightie like. But I think it’s not necessarily something about their ideology, which is basically mine too. It used to be the righties had opposite viewpoints. Then they got downright beligerent and began taking action, at any cost. Liberals in response were, and in many cases still are, pansies by comparison. We try to use reason and compassion and so on, all the while the righties are figuratively and in some cases literally beating liberals down. Fox News plays into it - they’re willingness to outright lie to their audience, being a far right propaganda machine. So when liberals try to fight back, they’re beaten down by morons. So I think over time that’s taken its toll and now we’re stooping to their level. Unfortunately, Drumpf has proven you can do or say anything and still be successful. So the level of discourse has suffered as a result and liberals have been forced to likewise go overboard.
In regards to this thread, it may be perfectly true that gender is a totally mental construct. Fine, but that’s a 22nd century idea. And when Liberals try to jam that into a early 20th, almost 19th century society (or at least the Conservative half of it) it just isn’t gonna work. And holding your breath and closing your eyes and screaming I want it, I want it, doesn’t help.

ExM and VY - I do see how the left is getting too far gone, almost rightie like. But I think it's not necessarily something about their ideology, which is basically mine too. It used to be the righties had opposite viewpoints. Then they got downright beligerent and began taking action, at any cost. Liberals in response were, and in many cases still are, pansies by comparison. We try to use reason and compassion and so on, all the while the righties are figuratively and in some cases literally beating liberals down. Fox News plays into it - they're willingness to outright lie to their audience, being a far right propaganda machine. So when liberals try to fight back, they're beaten down by morons. So I think over time that's taken its toll and now we're stooping to their level. Unfortunately, Drumpf has proven you can do or say anything and still be successful. So the level of discourse has suffered as a result and liberals have been forced to likewise go overboard. In regards to this thread, it may be perfectly true that gender is a totally mental construct. Fine, but that's a 22nd century idea. And when Liberals try to jam that into a early 20th, almost 19th century society (or at least the Conservative half of it) it just isn't gonna work. And holding your breath and closing your eyes and screaming I want it, I want it, doesn't help.
look at this Forum weirdness!! When I quote you more of your text is revealed that wasn't on your post. Oh I see, you were in the middle of an edit....What timing!