Being fat and happy with good morals is all we need to make America great again. This does not have to be a guessing game or the top ten reasons. Just ask your self if you are well fed, happy and do you have trust in your neighbors and government.
Yes, thatoneguy, the middle class had it good, but most were male WASPs. It didn’t apply to women (except by default of her husband, as she had her place at home), black people, or any other minority.What do you mean by WASP? That term isn't what it used to be.
It used to refer to a specific group of English people in America, then it meant anyone who was generally of Northern European decent. Now it doesn’t mean anything.
As for women, the idea that they were chained to the home is basically false. (Even is some were, there are much worse things than being stuck in a middle class kitchen). Most women didn’t have to work in the postwar era because the economy was extremely good. Most didn’t mind that, either. Before then most women did have to work at least part time, but in a much smaller variety of jobs than today.
Blacks have always had it rough, but there were far more opportunities for them to reach the middle class than now. Look at the rust belt.
Always blows me away hearing people discuss American ‘greatness’ without ever acknowledging the landscape or its cornucopia of flora and fauna inhabitants that Europe discovered and that made it the great place it was.America was great because it was a physically huge and resource saturated and inhabited by people who were easy to kill and tamed by slaves.
We’re sucking our cornucopia dry fast as possible, robbing America of what made it the great Land of Opportunity in the first place, and most don’t even get that fundamental – cause they be too busy thinking about themselves and their perceived needs and complaints.
Yes, natural resources are a huge part of American success. The industrial might that built our middle class comes from those resources.
You’re wrong as hell about slaves taming the land and Indians being easy to kill.
If MAGA is about restoring the middle class to its heyday (1946-1980) then all we need to do go thru a world war with a substantial number of casualties, but more importantly to raise and maintain the top federal income tax rates at 95% (as it was in 1945) to 80% (as it had dropped to in the 60’s) but definitely higher than the 70% it dropped to in 1980. What socialists we were back then!Mainly we need to curtail globalization, secure the border and punish those who exploit cheap labor.
Thatoneguy asked
What do you mean by WASP? That term isn’t what it used to be.
White Anglo Saxon Protestant. It’s always meant that and still does.
Oneguy said: “Mainly we need to curtail globalization, secure the border and punish those who exploit cheap labor.”
I’m fine with punishing those who exploit cheap labor.
Securing the border has become a simplistic naive term, usually associated with the nonsense that building a wall will take care of just about everything. I would replace the whole “securing the border” meme with developing a functional comprehensive immigration system that makes illegal immigration virtually unnecessary.
“Curtailing globalization” goes against the natural forward progress of human civilization. Rather we can build the middle class despite globalization, by having a better infrastructure, better education of our ppl, better innovation, better development and use of technology, learning to benefit from diversity rather than to be brought down by its potential for conflict, stronger unions, promoting the advancement of the middle classes in other countries.
“Curtailing globalization” goes against the natural forward progress of human civilization. Rather we can build the middle class despite globalization, by having a better infrastructure, better education of our ppl, better innovation, better development and use of technology, learning to benefit from diversity rather than to be brought down by its potential for conflict, stronger unions, promoting the advancement of the middle classes in other countries.“Natural foreword progress of civilization” doesn’t exist. There’s nothing natural or inevitable about civilization or anything in it.
Globalization is the result of corporate imperialism, and America is the biggest offender.
Securing the border has become a simplistic naive term, usually associated with the nonsense that building a wall will take care of just about everything. I would replace the whole “securing the border” meme with developing a functional comprehensive immigration system that makes illegal immigration virtually unnecessary.We have a functional system for legal immigration, but illegal immigration happens because it can.
Mriana Moderator Thatoneguy askedWhat do you mean by WASP? That term isn’t what it used to be.
White Anglo Saxon Protestant. It’s always meant that and still does.
Nobody under 50 even uses that term today. If you seriously mean only “Anglo Saxon Protestants” have been able to reach the middle class you’re wrong. All White American ethnic groups made it to the middle class before WW2, and black Americans had better chances to reach it decades ago.
The middle class was never a yacht club.
We do not have a functional system for legal immigration. Just one example of that is that it is legal for asylum seekers to present themselves for determination as to whether they meet the criteria for asylum. We don’t have anything even distantly approaching the necessary resources to functionally address this. And the measures that have been taken have only served to make it worse and turn it into a growing humanitarian crisis.
Also why do companies like Trump’s bring in ppl on work visas? If we don’t have enuf ppl for jobs, why don’t we have an immigration system that supplies us with the ppl we want, who also want to become citizens?
Why do companies like Trump’s and many many others have histories of employing illegal immigrants? (oh yeah, because they make more profits — but not if our immigration system included making the employment of illegal aliens MORE costly than employing citizens or aspiring citizens.)
thatoneguy said
Nobody under 50 even uses that term today.
ROFLMAO! I’m guessing you’re the one under 50?
Guy,
We have a functional system for legal immigration, but illegal immigration happens because it can.
I agree. We had and still have legal immigration for temporary workers, and it worked great until it got over regulated. That’s a fact. The H-2A visa program allows farmers to bring in workers. Farmers sold their crops a year in advance and grew what the market need was. Different crops have different labor requirements on hours of work and what time of the year the work is needed. The major supermarkets will not buy over a year in advance. Once it got over regulated it took over a year to bring in the labor. Labor Consultants and contractors started filling the labor needs and they used illegals.
The H2b is for non-agriculture labor. And is use by the hotel and resort industry a lot. I have never been involved so I can not say much about that program. I sent workers to Japan when they had the big earthquake some years ago. I tried to follow all the laws, but the laws were not there to follow. It was more nation by nation and I ended up working with the American consulate office.
TimB,
I agree we do not have a functional legal immigration system. Congress will not do their job. Nothing to do with Trump.
I disagree that using illegal immigrants are cheaper than American workers. I have never seen that happen anywhere but the Home Depot parking lots. As far as business, I can say that does not happen. I hear it all the time in the news. But I know from firsthand experience that that is not the case. The contractor friend who could not outbid the $50 per house for molding does not qualify because that was a bid job. The house builder was really dumb. Had that illegal filed a worker’s compensation case he would have lost his company.
I got involved a little bit with the illegal workers. Sponsored a few Mexican Rodeos and had the Mexican Consulate show up to help the young illegals register for the military. Otherwise they get a big fine for not registering when they get back home.
Did a survey with companies using illegals. And that cause me to shut down several programs that I was operating. For example, teaching illegals English. The survey described the best immigrant workers as being in the US less than three years and not speaking English. Once Americanized that’s when most of the problems start coming around.
I got Monsanto to put Spanish on several of their products that was used by mostly by immigrant workers.
Tim, I got involved with unionizing the Marijuana industry in California and I am seeing a lot of the same things as in the Mexican workers. It is more about the wisdom. A dairy worker of example is better coming from a farm in Mexico and having worked with animals. The American worker ends up hurt most of the time because they have no idea how to handle a cow and there is no simple way to teach them. The Asian growers can come to America and work for six months and make a million because as children, if they did not grow, they did not eat. They can communicate with the plants. The Americans manage to throw money at trying to grow and most of the time can’t grow. Of course, there are the exceptions, like the third and fourth generation growers in Northern California and the Colorado growers who came from California. They are the best growers in the world.
Assuming that you are not just pulling this stuff out of some hidden orifice, if there are really magical Asians who can grow needed crops, we should recruit the ones that want to be citizens, and help them to efficiently become citizens an assimilate - not just bring them in for temporary periods. In the six months they are not growing, they could be teaching other Americans (who want to learn) how to “communicate with plants”.
thatoneguy said Nobody under 50 even uses that term today. ROFLMAO! I’m guessing you’re the one under 50?Right, and you clearly aren't.
MikeYoheParticipant
Guy,
We have a functional system for legal immigration, but illegal immigration happens because it can.
I agree. We had and still have legal immigration for temporary workers, and it worked great until it got over regulated. That’s a fact. The H-2A visa program allows farmers to bring in workers. Farmers sold their crops a year in advance and grew what the market need was. Different crops have different labor requirements on hours of work and what time of the year the work is needed. The major supermarkets will not buy over a year in advance. Once it got over regulated it took over a year to bring in the labor. Labor Consultants and contractors started filling the labor needs and they used illegals.
The H2b is for non-agriculture labor. And is use by the hotel and resort industry a lot. I have never been involved so I can not say much about that program. I sent workers to Japan when they had the big earthquake some years ago. I tried to follow all the laws, but the laws were not there to follow. It was more nation by nation and I ended up working with the American consulate office.
Farmers need more regulation to prevent them from using illegals, imo.
Thatoneguy said,
Right, and you clearly aren’t.
Well, little whippersnapper, that’s the first time I’ve been called old over the internet. lol Somehow I bet you don’t know a thing about the mother of all motherboards being in another room all to herself or even experienced the internet when my older son was old enough to enjoy it in it’s heyday. But you know what? WASP still means White Anglo Saxon Protestant, regardless. We digress from the topic at hand though, but as long as you don’t bring up age again we’ll be fine. No worries though. I’m not that insulted. After all, I am a Memaw, besides a Mama now too.
Nobody under 50 even uses that term today. -- thatoneguyWEIRD is my preferred term these days, but then I have to explain it. So if I'm with people I think know what WASP means, I use it. This is a forum that is mostly used by educated people who understand that there are different cultures in the world, and there are people in the world who are over 50, and if they see a word or acronym they don't know, they can look it up, since, by default, they are using their lookup device while they are on this forum. But a lot of my assumptions that I just listed don't apply to you oneguy.
Oneguy said: “Natural foreword progress of civilization” doesn’t exist. There’s nothing natural or inevitable about civilization or anything in it…
TimB replies: Civilizations have progressed and have evolved. Thus it is natural. It does exist. It is certainly not supernatural. Yes, it is not inevitable that this will continue, not much is inevitable. But u r full of it when u deny what has already happened. Clearly your narrative is designed to discourage the natural forward progress of civilization.
Your narrative is consistent with those who choose nationalism. Reverting to hardcore nationalism brings us closer to world wars. With enough destruction, we could revert, even further, to what you may truly desire: tribalism.
WEIRD is my preferred term these days, but then I have to explain it. So if I’m with people I think know what WASP means, I use it. This is a forum that is mostly used by educated people who understand that there are different cultures in the world, and there are people in the world who are over 50, and if they see a word or acronym they don’t know, they can look it up, since, by default, they are using their lookup device while they are on this forum. But a lot of my assumptions that I just listed don’t apply to you oneguy.You think WEIRD and WASP are interchangeable?
That is very odd. Maybe you are not as educated as you think you are.
TimB replies: Civilizations have progressed and have evolved. Thus it is natural. It does exist. It is certainly not supernatural. Yes, it is not inevitable that this will continue, not much is inevitable. But u r full of it when u deny what has already happened. Clearly your narrative is designed to discourage the natural forward progress of civilization. Your narrative is consistent with those who choose nationalism. Reverting to hardcore nationalism brings us closer to world wars. With enough destruction, we could revert, even further, to what you may truly desire: tribalism.Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by natural forward progress of civilization. However, globalization is not helping the world at all, and it is more likely to cause worldwide conflict than nationalism.