A little ancient history here.
Discussing trump’s fuk-you cake:
The man was right on. What he, and the Dems, didn’t seem to understand is that we, the deplorables, are not going to submit to socialism (we know it is just communism lite), we are not going to give up our guns, we are not going to give up our religions, we do not believe it takes a village to raise a child (it takes a father and a mother, one man and one woman), we are not going to give handouts to people who won’t work, we don’t want socialized medicine (we know it doesn’t work), we don’t like queers (male or female), we don’t like Muslims (or Muslim lovers like Obama), we don’t like atheists and we have had our fill of Slick Willie’s wife and her “prodigal son” (her husband). We did not vote for Trump specifically, we would have voted for anyone who was going to prevent the crowning of Her Royal Clintoness and the continuation of efforts to overthrow the Constitution. They didn’t get it then and they don’t get it now.
All the impeachment did was to piss us off and we’ll vote against whoever the Dems run, even if we don’t like Trump as much as they don’t like him. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Trump is the enemy of our enemies. Machiavelli told any would-be prince not to strike at the king unless he would kill him. The Dems knew they would not be able to remove Trump before they started the war. Big time mistake, and it has backfired on them. The un-holy coalition of communists, socialists, queers, atheists, the people who want the rest of us to support them while they don’t work and the billionaires who would overthrow the Constitution and rule a socialist country, today called the Democratic Party is doomed to failure. We, the people who made this country great, who have rescued it from the Dems and made it great again, and who will keep it great for generations to come will never allow the overthrow of our Constitution. You, your children and your grandchildren will reap the benefits of our labors; you should thank us.
Bob, are you a Poe? I just have to know!
I’m afraid he’s not 3. It’s called the “dignity gap”. They will explain it differently, but to me, in our efforts to get equal pay for women, and allow gay people to walk the streets without fear of being strung up on a fence somewhere, we had to examine the culture that was the norm within the lifetime of a lot of people. I was taught to get a good job and be a good neighbor, but then once I’d done that, it wasn’t good enough. It wasn’t good enough that I didn’t rape anyone, I had to be actively defending women’s rights. It wasn’t good enough that I didn’t discriminate against someone based on race, I had to actually step aside and create an opening for them. I couldn’t even say certain words or look at someone a certain way, someone might call me out for that. The things I was told were values when I was a kid are now thought crimes.
I didn’t see this happening, because I’m perfectly happy in my middle class life. I don’t mind that I’m not as successful as my father. I’m also not as angry as he was. But there are a lot of people who think something has been taken away from them. Ironically, it was something they didn’t earn. They were born on second base but they don’t know history well enough to see that. Reagan tapped into that and they have been perfecting it ever since. My only hope is that a populist leader has to be someone who is difficult to deal with. He has to truly believe he is the “one” or the masses won’t follow him. It will eventually be his downfall, but then the rest of us left to learn from history. And you know how that goes.
Sounds like a pretty good summary Lausten.
I’ve been watching the downfall through the lens of the evolving climate science denial effort. None of it focused on learning or dealing with the future, everything focused on me-first, more,more,more self-serving mentality.
Lausten, I don’t remember if you’re included but a few of us old timer are pretty much the same age, so you might be able to commiserate with me. Birthdays and aging has never bothered me the way it has most around me, but lately coming to grips with the fact that it was half f’n century ago, that I entered high school, keeps coming back to rattle me, not in bad way, reflective. I think it’s the mention of Reagan and being reminded of the super charging of this plunge into self-serving delusion on a national scale that he opened the floodgates for.
We’re witnesses to history and humanity losing it’s last best chance. Frightful, honestly frightful.
The other day, I had a customer who insisted he wasn’t going to give up the country to the Millennials because they don’t know what they want or that what they want will make this country worse. He got really irate when I said we should let them have the government and give them a chance to fix what we made worse. That’s when he blew up on me and said wasn’t going to give it up to them. He was really irate, but if he thought about it, we have their grandparents in office and a few Gen X’ers, but mostly boomers. I want Bernie Sanders in government and a few other Boomers, but the balance is backwards considering who’s an adult now in this country and inheriting things.
The Bob’s of the world intrigue and scare me. So much interesting psychology going on in that sort of person.
We need to learn why they think like that to really deal with the problem. Kinda like the basis for the Netflix series, Mindhunter.
I do something called restorative justice in my community, it’s a program to get young offenders to think about what they did, instead of just punishing them. Anyway we had a dinner with a speaker about racism. What it got me thinking is, I was taught not to be a Nazi, okay, not too hard. The Tolerance Museum looks a little deeper in to how media can be used to promote racism and how that was the roots of Nazism. But what that doesn’t answer is, why was the culture accepting of those images? What “fertilized” the ground for that to grow? The atheist community likes to blame Christianity, but tribalism is everywhere. I’m not ready to just say it is our nature either since there are so many good people. There seems to be something in this idea of what you were born with is what you deserve.
Lausten: The Tolerance Museum looks a little deeper in to how media can be used to promote racism and how that was the roots of Nazism. But what that doesn’t answer is, why was the culture accepting of those images? What “fertilized” the ground for that to grow? The atheist community likes to blame Christianity, but tribalism is everywhere. I’m not ready to just say it is our nature either since there are so many good people. There seems to be something in this idea of what you were born with is what you deserve.My opinion is that it is a combination of things, but mostly: human nature, the society a person grows up in, and a smattering of personality.
Atheists blaming Christianity is just atheists blaming the three things I mentioned which have allowed religion to become such a force. Individually humans are usually smart but in large groups they’re drones that think they’re smart. Watch a sports mob in action- individually most of those people wouldn’t dream of vandalizing and fighting, but when in a large group they lose all sorts of inhibitions and moral direction. Now scale that up from a stadium to a country, throw in misinformation, propaganda, crappy education, religion and all sorts of other variables, and you’ve got a recipe for good people doing bad things.
Not every Nazi could handle working in a concentration camp. Most were regular people who agreed with the Nazi platform but would never be able to do the dirty work (same thing with the death penalty- how many people agree with it but would turn green and pass-out if they were told to strap someone into the chair and throw the switch?- or donating to save starving people on the other side of the planet rather than donating it to buy new hockey jerseys for the local team?) It’s the distance between the idea and the reality it results in that humans can’t overcome.
I don’t usually factor in mob mentality. I get how that works in a situation but it seems it should wear off once you go home. But then, some people have that mentality at home too I guess. I was arguing with a guy on facebook, he was pretty extreme, then I went to look at his page. It just went on and on, he was sitting at his computer every waking hour just finding memes and re-posting them.
The mob mentality has spread to every day life and is constantly reinforced by the thought-silos of social media.
When you can’t (and don’t want to) escape the frenzied emotions brought on by hearing how right you are and how wrong ‘they’ are, the mob mentality becomes society’s mentality.
And it also can’t be overstated that the distance between the idea and the reality it results in is something people are practically incapable of comprehending. We care more about the sick kid in town than the sick kid in the next town over. We care more about the sick kid in the next town over more than the sick kid two counties over. We care more about that kid than the one in the next province (state down there). We care more about that kid than the one on the other side of the country. We care more about that kid than… well, you get it.
Pretty soon, immigrants are bad because they come from far away, yet most people know few, if any, immigrants. Only when they personally know someone are most people able to empathize with them.
3point14rat: “Bob, are you a Poe? I just have to know!”
What’s a Poe?
According to the Urban Dictionary, a Poe is:
“Similar to Murphy’s Law, Poe’s Law concerns internet debates, particularly regarding religion or politics. … In other words, No matter how bizzare, outrageous, or just plain idiotic a parody of a Fundamentalist may seem, there will always be someone who cannot tell that it is a parody, having seen similar REAL ideas from real religious/political Fundamentalists.”
So, if you’re a Poe, you’re sarcastically saying crazy things to parody the opposite side of the argument. If you’re not a Poe, you’re just saying crazy things because you’re crazy.
3point14rat: “So, if you’re a Poe, you’re sarcastically saying crazy things to parody the opposite side of the argument. If you’re not a Poe, you’re just saying crazy things because you’re crazy.”
Mama says crazy is as crazy does.
I am amused that you and so many like you don’t understand, and apparently don’t want to understand, why 63, 000, 000 people voted for Trump, and that with only 60% voter turnout. The Dems have ensured a much higher Trump turnout this time with their impeachment. And they’ll get a smaller Dem turnout with this current crop of non-starters. A Repub SCOTUS for the next 40 years. Get used to it.
Come November we’ll see who’s politically correct.
Lausten: “But there are a lot of people who think something has been taken away from them. Ironically, it was something they didn’t earn.”
The four steps in society cycles are revolution, building, enjoying, throwing away. Post WW-II the “greatest generation” enjoyed and shared with their children all that had been gained over the previous 200 years.
It is not that something is being taken away, it is that so much is being thrown away. And it is exactly because they didn’t earn it that they don’t value it.
“They” just might be you Bob, in this case. Do a little self reflection.
On the voting, we’ll see. There isn’t a recent example of more Republicans voting, but there a few for Democrats.
Why would you point to votes anyway when you lost the popular vote? We have to live with each Bob.
"I am amused that you and so many like you don’t understand, and apparently don’t want to understand, why 63, 000, 000 people voted for Trump, and that with only 60% voter turnout."You can put your amusement back in your pocket. I do understand why Trump is as popular as he is.
The answer requires an impolite commentary on the intelligence, morals and thinking skills of 63, 000, 000 people, and since spelling it out would only cause grief here in the forum, let’s assume we all know the answer.
It is not that something is being taken away, it is that so much is being thrown away.And it is exactly because they didn’t earn it that they don’t value it.
Definitely a ring of truth there, though on cause and effect we’d probably disagree.
The Online Trolling Ecosystemwww_computer_org/csdl/magazine/co/2018/08/mco2018080044/13rRUyZaxtX
HomeMagazinesComputer2018.08
August 2018, pp. 44-51, vol. 51
DOI Bookmark: 10.1109/MC.2018.3191256
Keywords
Social Networking Online, Online Trolling Ecosystem, Social Media, History Of Computing, Aftershock, Trolling, Social Media, Internet Web Technologies
Authors
Hal Berghel, University of Nevada, Las Vegas
Daniel Berleant, University of Arkansas at Little Rock
Abstract
As trolling becomes inseparable from modern social media, a renewed effort is needed to unmask and abate the risks of this reality. A proposed taxonomy offers useful clarification.
SEPT. 16, 2016 How Internet Trolls Won the 2016 Presidential Election By Jesse Singal nymag_com/intelligencer/2016/09/how-internet-trolls-won-the-2016-presidential-election_htmlHow Russian Trolls Used Meme Warfare to Divide America
NICHOLAS THOMPSON
A new report for the Senate exposes how the IRA used every major social media platform to target voters before and after the 2016 election.
www_wired_com/story/russia-ira-propaganda-senate-report/
Timeline: How Russian trolls allegedly tried to throw the 2016 election to Trump www_washingtonpost_com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/16/timeline-how-russian-trolls-allegedly-tried-to-throw-the-2016-election-to-trump/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</blockquote> <blockquote>NICK GILLESPIE at Reason shared his opinion with a provocative title that’s never supported, or even examined, because he’s too busy bemoaning the prospect of new regulations. “Yes, Russian Trolls Tried To Influence the 2016 Election. No, They Didn't Win It for Trump. Are we really going to shut down the internet because Hillary Clinton ran a bad campaign and blew an easy win?” His subtitle exposes his message, it’s all about regulation hysteria for him.Russia: Trump and his team’s ties
swalwell.house_gov/issues/russia-trump-his-administration-s-ties
Russian Hacking and Influence in the U.S. Election Complete coverage of Russia’s campaign to disrupt the 2016 presidential election. www_nytimes_com/news-event/russian-election-hacking</blockquote> <blockquote>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ayatollah Trump: The Global Rise of the Christian Right Islamic extremism gets all the press, but Trump is just one of a growing number of Christian extremists in positions of political power. By John Feffer, April 3, 2019. fpif_org/ayatollah-trump-the-global-rise-of-the-christian-right/White Evangelicals Remain In Thrall Of Trump
Aug 20, 2019 by Rob Boston
www_au_org/blogs/Evangelicals-Still-Support-Trump
The Anti-LGBTQ Extremists of Evangelicals for Trump The new coalition's members are a who's who of haters. BY Trudy Ring JANUARY 07 2020 www_advocate_com/election/2020/1/07/anti-lgbtq-extremists-evangelicals-trumpTrump: Evangelical Plague Paperback – September 9, 2018
www_amazon_com/Trump-Evangelical-Plague-Robert-Mamrak/dp/0692180095
by Robert Mamrak
'He was sent to us': at church rally, evangelicals worship God and Trump Richard Luscombe - Jan 4, 2020 www_theguardian_com/us-news/2020/jan/03/trump-florida-evangelical-rally-king-jesus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The American Historian www_oah_org/tah/issues/2018/november/evangelicalism-and-politics/ Evangelicalism and Politics JOHN FEA, LAURA GIFFORD, R. MARIE GRIFFITH, AND LERONE A. MARTIN</blockquote>