It's pretty simple, there is no empirical evidence to support that transgenders are the sex they believe themselves to be. Prove me wrong using scientific evidence

I’ve been on this forum for a while and it seems that empirical evidence is the beat-all answer to proving one’s argument. If you argue that it’s in the brain, then what empirical evidence can you show that proves that a woman’s brain lives in a man’s body, and in how many cases had this been proven?

Bonus post

So Caitlan Jenner is a girl by all of your standards, and if that’s the case will anyone here have an issue with people who are claiming that they are transracial? It’s just anyone level of chipping away social objectivity. If everything is subjective, then where does it end.

I use to wonder how long the people on this forum use to seriously question gender. Most of the people here are at least 10+ years older than me, but I figure the idea is to keep conforming to liberal thinking rather than being considered out of touch. From there I understood. A man is a woman the moment he thinks he’s a woman. That’s how it works in today’s liberal thinking.

[quote=“mitch70, post:1, topic:8456”]
So Caitlan Jenner is a girl by all of your standards, and if that’s the case will anyone here have an issue with people who are claiming that they are transracial? It’s just anyone level of chipping away social objectivity. If everything is subjective, then where does it end.

Yea, you go tell that to Caitlin.
She’ll beat the shit out of you, check her make-up in the mirror, straighten her hair and walk away chin raised high…

But you bring up an interesting idea, trans-species, now there’s a twist.

But you have shown complete disinterest in the evidence.

And there is empirical evidence that you are really hung up on this transgender topic.

I accept Jenner as a human being. It’s their (humans’) business what they decide about their personal well-being, medical health, surgeries they get, dress, etc. That’s none of my business as long as they are not hurting anyone.

Transracial is a whole new topic. I don’t think anyone accepted the woman who called herself Black when she was born white. Although, there have been a few people in recent years who insist they are transracial. Again, I really don’t care as long as they are not harming anyone, but N.A. and Black people don’t see to accept it.

There is a bit of a difference between “not caring what one does, as long as they do not harm anyone” and actual acceptance. 1. It’s a level of acceptance of the human being v actually accepting what they say and not expressing personal thoughts. 2. Personal thoughts can change overtime and one needs to be careful what they say so that previous opinions don’t come back to bite them in the butt if they change their minds on a subject. 3. It could very well mean that one does not have a personal opinion yet and refrains to say anything until they form one. 5. Starting out with the fact that one is human, without any bias, goes a long ways in learning about them as an individual.

I don’t know anything about Jenner or Dolezal to judge them, but one is more socially accepted than the other. Dolezal says she can’t get a job, but Jenner seems to be working still. Now there’s something to discuss- why is one more accepted than the other. Both have changed their physical appearance, but only one is more socially accepted. Why? Why is society attempting to force one to live by a social standards and the other is allowed to live by evolving/developing social standards? In this case, not all humans accept a developing social standard yet, others are on the fence or don’t care, and still others jump in with both feet demanding everyone in society accept the human who is choosing to be different. In another case, a tiny minority accept a theory, another just don’t care, and the majority do not.

The biggest thing is accepting another person as a human being is not beating them physically and/or psychologically for being different and bucking social norms. This goes back to accepting individual uniqueness. There is nothing wrong with being unique. There is a LOT wrong with with beating a human physically and/or psychologically for being unique. It’s better to learn about another human, reserving opinions and judgement, than harm them.

With Dolezal, the NAACP didn’t want a human was not born Black in a position of power. There is, to this day, suspicion of people who are born white. It is a different form of racism and it’s not just Black people, but N.A. too. So socially, it will be more difficult for someone like Dolezal (she’s not the only one) to be accepted as transracial than it is for someone who is transgender. Even humans, who are biracial, are often forced to choose which colour (race for the general public) they will identify with. I have son who, while still identifying as both white and Black, socializes more with white people and another son who socializes more with Black people. It was societal pressure that forced them to make such social choices. Transgender individuals don’t often have such pressure. In fact, there are designations of gender fluid, agender/non-binary, and others for them to choose from. People who identify with a skin colour group they were not born into, don’t have these choices, more so than those who were born in more than one.

Sitting back an observing seems to be the best option for now on both topics. Pendulum always swings to center though. So who knows how humans will finally react in the end.

I have another question for Mitch70- what is your problem with allowing other humans being just be human beings, as long as they aren’t harming anyone? Who cares if they want to be or feel they are the opposite gender they were born? Who cares if they want to be uniquely themselves, as long as they are not harming anyone? Why does it matter to you so much that you have to press everyone with these stupid threads? What business of yours is it, if a person wants to be female and use the women’s room, harming no one? It’s none of your business, so just view the hairless ape as humans and go from there, without the rest of the stupid crap, unless they are harming themselves or others.

And it would be very lady-like of her to do so. Now if we can get trans-species on the map things will get real fun here on this forum.


Actually, I have no problem letting a person being gay, bi, transgender, or even trans-racial, or trans-species. If a person wants to be a





Or even a bagel head

I am 100% okay with it. I’m against being told to believe that the cat man is a real cat. Once laws are written that you HAVE to acknowledge a person as being a cat, then that means that if you don’t follow the law, that the cat man can legally file a complaint against you and bring you to court in a lawsuit claiming damages and even emotional trauma. because you didn’t treat him properly. If you look at this on a social level, then I agree with you. Let bygones be bygones, but the moment it becomes law, then I have a problem.

Dammit!!! You had to bring the Furries in on this one, didn’t you?

It’s really strange what motivates people these days.
George Carlin had another classic motivational lecture. It’s worth the time.

Warning crude language.

I really miss George Carlin’s performance, figuratively and literally. A few months before he died I was in Las Vegas and missed the chance to see him in his live stand-up.

In the spirit of “Motivation”, you had me thinking of an old poster that I thought you’d get a kick out of.


Okay, that’s your standard. Now, apply that to the person who was “born a woman” according to her birth certificate, felt she was a woman, looks like any average woman, but was told she could not compete as a woman in the Olympics because of a hormone test. That’s the law, enforcing a standard of gender on someone. If you believe the law shouldn’t do that, what’s your opinion on that?

I don’t know of an equivalent, where someone said they were not the gender on their birth certificate and someone was punished for not recognizing that. What law or case are you talking about?

No, this isn’t my standard. This has been proven by the American Disabilities Act where people literally scout out businesses for even the most minute infraction and then filing a legal complaint suing the company for thousands of dollars citing humiliation and emotional damage. When I purchased my Pizza business I ran across a previous lawsuit given to the previous owner for some $5000 to $8000 claiming just those two things, humiliation, and emotional trauma. I couldn’t remember what the complaint was for, but I remember it being something absurd as the tables not meeting exact regulations.

There’s more here to it than you could even imagine. Most companies won’t even risk a lawsuit, so every law that is put out could easily get an unknowing person fired from their job. If you’re not within 100% compliance with the law, then you will be sued, and it won’t be cheap by any means. This goes double for any large corporation as they have to protect their reputation at all costs, and will be forced to take drastic measures to ensure that they’re not caught up in a public legal battle.

If she’s born with a penis, it doesn’t matter what the birth certificate says. The child born is a boy with all the hormones that go with it. Just because a guy can dress heavily in make-up and trick others into believing that they’re the opposite sex, does not mean they’re the opposite sex. Believing something to be true, doesn’t make it true. Men have not just hormonal advantages over women once they’ve hit puberty, but also distinct physiological advantages.

Sex-Based Differences in Normal Physiology

Even if you put a man on hormone therapy, he still has a huge advantage over women in height, lung capacity, and bone/muscle mass. On average men are far larger, faster, and stronger than women.

Once you go opening this door up, then there is no turning back. Lawsuits will ensue and the world of women’s sports will come to an end as transgenders break all the records.

I think we need to be real careful not to make laws that are going to screw biological women over. Okay just for argument’s sake, would you change your position of Transgenders competing in women’s sports ended up with them dominating those sports and breaking all records?

edited to clarify

You have completely avoided my question. You continue to use anecdotes and exceptions. You don’t understand my position on transgenders, so your question is invalid. You are asking about something that you think that I think, so I can’t answer it without first correcting your error. I’ve tried to do that for a long time now, and you refuse to engage in dialog. I’m not going to drop my question in the hopes that I can resolve your change in the subject then come back to it.

At some point, You are going to attempt to login sometime and you won’t be able to. Don’t say I didn’t try to explain why.

I tried honestly answering your question the best way I could but it was completely convoluted that I had to re-read it just to figure out what you were asking. I find it funny that you’d ban me for not understanding your question, but blasting people is seemingly okay.

So are you giving me an ACTUAL case, or is this a scenario-based question? I try to keep my questions direct so that a person doesn’t have to figure out the multiple layers of what I’m asking. You leave a lot of open ends to your question too not addressing if the person is physically a girl or not.

Yes. I linked it twice, and reminded you that I linked it. You’ve ignored the story every time. It includes the multiple ways science uses to determine gender. You’ve ignored that. Yes, my example is real, at the international level. You haven’t shown an equivalent.

Ok, I have time to go over it right now. It’s a long podcast though at about 47 minutes long.

You’re listening to the Radio Lab right? The first half it’s the important one

I’m not familiar with the Radio Lab. The link you sent had both text and the speech which does help quite a bit when I’m reading something.

I thought I had bookmarked the link you sent me but I hadn’t, and I’ve been scrolling all the pages for a good half hour trying to find the link you sent me. I really didn’t want to ask this, but could you please resend it?

I was curious though before reading/listening to the podcast, Would this have to do with the Caster Semenya case? That was a crazy situation, to say the least. I’ll go through the podcast first though and hear it out, but please resend the link?

and sorry that I lost it.

EDIT I take this back. I found the link. For the life of me, I didn’t think it would be this hard to find the podcast, but I kept missing it every time I scrolled down the posts.

That’s the one. Had to go pick some kale