Just finish the Fence
No Mike, no fence is going to save us.
Oh speaking of Republican General Attorneys, we still have other shit that needs to be cleared up. Mistake to own up to, lessons to learn.
No. As citizenschallengev4 said, a fence wonāt save us. It will harm wildlife though. Wildlife is always crossing the border and back again. To put a fence up will cause the wildlife harm, but if you call lobo Mejicano an illegal immigrant who needs to be sent back to die due to not migrating with the prey he eatsā¦
When āfenceā gets mentioned, thatās pretty much the end of it for me. Experts on such things have weighed in on this and the data show thats when the money is there, ways are found to get around fences. They were needed in the 90ās, when people were wondering across pastureland and putting a burden on local landowners. But weāve funneled those who take the trek alone into places we can deal with them. The drug dealers and coyotes just found new ways, and there arenāt better fences that will keep them out.
Of course, people can get around fences. Who knows best how to stop illegal crossing are the people who do it for a living. Show me one border patrol agent who say fences donāt help. And why are all the problems right now at the border happening at areas with no fences? Not hard to figure out.
My understanding on how it works is that if you want to come to America. Just go to a point of entry and drive or walk across. You will be asked, what are you wanting to do. You can say shopping. Going to visit the park or zoo. Doing some banking. Iāve never been stopped for crossing at Tijuana. Bet I cross the border a couple hundred times. Mostly for Agua Caliente, international betting. Just go to any high school in Chula Vista and check out the student parking lot. You will be lucky to see a car with American plates. And the schools PA system will be in Spanish with Mexican music playing. Which I thought was for the teachers. The students like American rock and roll.
The dairy and construction workers who want to come to the United States have no problems. If a worker gets picked up and sent back to Mexico. It can take up to two weeks to get him back to Mexico. Once there, he will be back to work in Idaho in four days.
For workers it is no problem crossing the border. The problem is after you cross the border there is a second line of defense. It can be anywhere from 50 to 120 miles north of the border. All the traffic is checked out. You can be crossing a bridge and never know you and everyone in your car was checked out.
On busy roads like interstate routes there will be check points. Like on I-5 there is the San Clemente Border Patrol Station. It is located at Camp Pendleton. Impossible to go around. You can go inland to the I-15 at the Temecula checkpoint and if you know how. It is easy to go around the checkpoint.
You got that right. I was part of the wildlife when I was young. Use to party in Tijuana until it got to Americanized. Then went further south to Rosarito Beach and Ensenada to party. And I agree with you. We should always protect the wildlife.
Always looked forward to off-roading at Glamis sand dunes. Would always ride off-road to Mexico to get tequila and fireworks. There is no border crossing there. Or roads as far as that goes. And there will never be a fence there. There is no reason to put a fence there.
Trump made it clear to those who listened. The fences are for the mass crossing and populated areas. There is no wildlife to speak of in the cities. Texas is a little different. There is wildlife where some of the fence must be placed. Mainly because of roads. I would guess a fence is need from Amistad Village to the Gulf of Mexico.
The wildlife in the Rio Grande River valley are desert bighorn sheep, white-tailed deer, pronghorn, and desert mule deer. The only ones that will be where the fence is located would be the white-tailed deer. And they will go to higher land in the summertime. The only high land in the fenced area is in Mexico. I really do not see the wildlife problem you are talking about. If anything, the fence will keep the hunters away from the wildlife. I know the Texans, and they would follow a deer right across the river into Mexico. Hunting season is when the deer herd up. And you will always find them near water. The fence might just help the deer by keeping the hunters away.
Hereās an extensive article from a conservative think tank>
Hereās a border agents point of view
Probably some agents weighing in here. I donāt have time to google for you.
Iāve never been stopped for crossing at Tijuana. ā Mike
Do you think the agents working the border are stupid? Do you think they arenāt trained to tell when someone is lying? Do you think they have no tools to investigate a person and figure out where they are from and what their intentions might be? Your experience is the exact opposite of someone who has walked a thousand miles, fleeing violence in their country.
Why are you twisting what I was saying?
Itās what he does. He canāt process information - Mike Yohe - from what he posts here at CFI - only knows how to twist everything into his narrative, and if that requires fantasizing, and creating lies in order to keep it within his narrow storyline, so be it.
Truth donāt matter, itās the extreme right wing racist anti USA Trumpian propaganda propagation thatās all important to him
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A closer look at whatās happening today, and itās aināt the āleftā thatās behaving terrifyingly unAmerican.
itās essential to remember to understand
13:54
one thing and this has to be brought forward into the debate
despite all the flaws of American democracy or any democracy democracies are the only system of government that has ever existed in the history of humanity that puts the individual human beings on top of the power of the state.
> Every other system subordinates the dignity of the human being to the power of the state for the purposes of the state often controlled by self-interested corrupt minority.
So this is the most profound moral issue that you could possibly talk about on any given evening in this country because it goes to the heart of the American idea
the embrace of humanism of natural rights of pluralism
and this idea that anybody can be an American that we can all stand equal co-equally in a society under the rule of law
where we all get a say and get to participate and that is what is being vandalized and attacked and successfully so ā¦
Thatās what Iāve concluded too.
Good you got the exact point I was making. It is the people that do the work that we need to backed. And they say the fence is what they need. The fence does not do their job. It is a tool that makeās their job manageable.
Progressivism at its core is grounded in the idea of progress. Progress can only happen if we take the time to understand what is causing the need for progress. Other wise we can go backwards under the disguise of progressivism.
Why do they need a fence as a tool? I think it goes back to Ronald Reagan passing the amnesty with the promise from the Democrats that in the next session they would work on and fix the immigration system. Well, that never happened. And it is just not the Democrats. Both parties are to blame. Neither one wants to take the political hit of fixing the system.
The border is a world in of its own making. Go to San Diego and look toward Tijuana. What you will see is the hills of Tijuana with massive radio towers. There is nothing but water between those towers and the LA basin. Those towers which broadcast at power levels beyond what is allowed in the states. Mexicoās second largest city is the LA basin. For the last fifty years those towers have been broadcasting ads from attorneys that have educated the people on the American laws. Today you must add the Spanish TV stations. Again, the same attorney ads. I dare you to find any working-class people that know how to work the American system better than the illegal work force.
Today the immigration industry, mainly in Ca and NY are a stand-alone industry.
The law says unaccompanied children presents special circumstances. So, the taxpayer must cover the legal bills.
The point being. We are talking about an industry that gets bigger and richer each day the Border Patrol are unable to do their job. It is not the working-class immigration the lawyers are getting rich off. They just want to work and send money home. It is the immigration coming here for medical and retirement reasons. Or to file a workerās compensation claim. The majority of the working immigrates is not going to pay $8K to get across. He will fly or drive his new truck across. And they want jobs paying over $14/h. In construction they want $22/hr.
An example of the problem. Trump imposed visa rules for pregnant women. This was because of the Birth Tourism industry. According to the Center for Immigration Studies, 26,000 ābirth touristsā last year. Bidenville had 10 births this week.
For the infrastructure bill. We have 717 bills to change the laws and funding for immigration alone. They want to vote on the infrastructure this coming week. Totally unprofessional operation in DC.
The law right now is - In any removal proceedings before an immigration judge and in any appeal proceedings before the Attorney General from any such removal proceedings, the person concerned shall have the privilege of being represented (at no expense to the Government) by such counsel, authorized to practice in such proceedings, as he shall choose.
I went to the infrastructure bill in congress to see where it was at covering the Dreamers legal costs. Just to deport the dreamers it is estimated the legal cost would be $10B in legal fees to the taxpayers.
The government will not give up to date figures on immigration costs. Trump said he thought the costs were in the range of $250B. He was called a liar. The Hill said it was actually more. There is really no way of knowing without the numbers because the communists do not want to let the numbers known.
Biden just this week let 30,000 immigrates into the country. Say we must deport 20,000 of them. That is $375M alone just for the legal cost.
There is said to be 20M immigrates in America today. That is $250B in legal fees alone. That is the stuff that is passed in DC and never talked about until years later.
This seems to be all for nothing if the American communists break the dollar. Kudlow of Fox News was interviewing Alejandro Mayorkas the other day. Kudlow ask Mayorkas why he wasnāt enforcing the Stay In Mexico policy that the Supreme Court ordered to be done. Mayorkas said that was only a lower court order. Kudlow reminded him that his department appealed to the upper court and the Supreme Court let the ruling stand. Mayorkas then said it is the policy of the Biden Administration that they were against fences and walls and that anyone who wanted to come to America should be able to. Kudlow said then you are not going to follow the Supreme Court ruling. Mayorkas said they would, but it is going to take time to get a treaty with Mexico and all the legalities worked out.
I realize SOME border agents want the wall, thatās not evidence for it being the correct solution.
Neither one wants to take the political hit of fixing the system.
What is that political hit? Democrats have put more than one fix forward. Why donāt the Republicans want to negotiate?
the illegal work force
Why are people hiring them? I dare you to find anyone who knows that system better than the people who hire them.
It is the immigration coming here for medical and retirement reasons. Or to file a workerās compensation claim. The majority of the working immigrates is not going to pay $8K to get across. He will fly or drive his new truck across. And they want jobs paying over $14/h. In construction they want $22/hr.
And weāre into the world that exists only Mikeās head again
Studies, 26,000 ābirth touristsā last year.
So, 0.00008% increase in population. I think we can handle it.
Show me your evidence.
Republicans talk about it every day. Congressmen are on the news talking about it. Democrats say there is no problem. You say the Democrats want to fix something that they say is not a problem.
I made a living doing leased labor. Had over a thousand clients. And I can tell you they do not know the labor laws. What I found that made the idea client was the guy who had been put out of business by the government or fraud at least twice. They understood they did not know the laws and really appreciated my services. Some of the dairies had gotten in trouble twice and once more and they were out of business. It was to dangerous for them to even have employees of their own.
I see you are reaching for straws now. The government admits that the immigrants are coming here for economic reasons. And they admit that 1 out of 5 of the Bidenville immigrants came here for health reasons. If they admit that. It is most likely twice that number.
Donāt play stupid with me. You know that for every child there is a family.
What are the effects of chain migration?
Chain Migration, which has been the primary source of low-skilled legal immigration into the United States, has depressed wages and job opportunities for comparably skilled American workers. This has had a profoundly negative impact on African American and Hispanic workers in particular.
Over the last 35 years, chain migration has greatly exceeded new immigration. Out of 33 million immigrants admitted to the United States from 1981 to 2016, about 20 million were chain migration immigrants (61 percent). Center for Immigration Studies - Pro-immigrate
Already did. You obviously donāt read my posts very well.
Thatās just a flat out lie.
You have said you worked in an awful lot of different jobs. It seems like whatever comes in a conversation, suddenly you are an expert. Hmmm
Business owners do that, then they point to some people who are poorer than you and they blame them, so you donāt look at the obvious source. You have swallowed that hook, line, and sinker.
Are you talking about the PBS story from a former BP agent. Thatās a total joke. Donāt tell me that you base logic on BS from a bleeding liberal and a PBS writer. You better have a back-up source. You were right. I did not read it. I at least have a little pride in trying to go after the truth.
Then a story, The Wall. Two guys who want to come to America for economic reasons. If anything, the story is a case for a second wall to be built behind the first wall. The task was for BP agents to counter the stories in the News about how the walls help. You missed the mark by miles.
OK, at least it is a one-sided driven point of view.
The CATO ā Why the Wall Wonāt Work. A group that wants a free and open civil societies based upon libertarian principles.
For the last 25 years the BP has been asking for fences and walls. The existing walls ranged from 6 to 18 ft. Some fencing can be cut in minutes. The BP repaired 4,000 holes in a year.
In a sense, the wall merely represents the Trump administrationās worst instincts and desires. It is harmful, wasteful, and offensive, but an ineffective wall is nonetheless better than the surge of 5,000 new Border Patrol agents and 10,000 new Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers to round up and deport people that the president also wants. No wall has ever arrested, robbed, battered, or murdered nonviolent people, as immigration enforcement has. A wall will not create an interest group to lobby for itself, endorse nationalist presidential candidates, and demand more power and funding, as the Border Patrol union does.
Conclusion ā Democrats say, āWalls donāt workā. The minute the Democrat leaders felt at risk. Up went the wall around the congress. Why would people who claim walls donāt work. Immediately build a wall without any discussions or debates? Does the word āhypocrite and liarsā come to mind?
Why try and fool people. Why not just tell the truth. You donāt care about walls. You want no wall and an open boarder. Get rid of America and people should be able to come and go to any country they want to live in. Of course, D.C. would be like the forbidden city of China. Walls would be built around D.C.
2018 - For more than a decade, Gallup has polled adults in countries around the world to see how many would move permanently to another country if they had the chance. 147 million.
2021 - The Hill - The number of people who indicated a desire to migrate to the U.S. in a worldwide survey in 2018 is about 158 million adults. If all those people with their immediate families were able to achieve their migration desires in the near future, Americaās population would increase to more than a half billion people.
So, you ājudged a book by itās coverā. This is why I donāt bother with you much anymore.
Such a simple minded analogy. A temporary barrier, in a small space, when an imminent threat is identified and the wall is only part of the solution, compared to a 24/7, very long space, where the solution is putting a wall out where no other deterrents are reasonable. Again, youāre not worth my time if these are the questions you ask.
All you had was one ex-BP agent out of three leads. It looks like you did not read the stories.
Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas defended President Bidenās immigration strategy and emphasized in multiple interviews Sunday that the southern border of the United States ā is closed ,ā as the Biden administration faces criticism over a record number of migrants seeking entry into the country from Mexico and Central America.
Mayorkas, who appeared on almost all of the major political shows Sunday morning, sought to push a consistent message as the Biden administration is being pressed about conditions in overcrowded detention centers for unaccompanied immigrant children.
The Washington Post
No, I donāt think I am an expert except for certain trades that I got hands on experience. In the leasing industry, I was in the startup of the industry expanding growth in the 80ās. Try to pass several laws in California related to leasing. Got an education there. Paid a lot to lobbyists and attorneys and got nothing. Did make the cover the trade magazine as the fastest growing leasing company.
What got me there was working at night in a factory as a machinist. In the daytime I was setting companies up to use independent contractors. The tax reform of 86ā passed and that changed all the independent contractor laws. I changed the business to labor leasing. Your view that business owner know what they are doing, did not cover the vast majority of the small business. A lot of the business started in the 60ās and 70ās and then expanded over the years. More than you know paid workers under the table. Or as an independent contractor. Both were wrong. I sat them up in leasing and got them legal.
The problem was, I didnāt really know the ropes myself that well. I only had about 300 employees at the time. My workerās compensation was with the State Fund. I had a fraud case. At the time the workerās compensation fraud in Ca. was an epidemic. Plus, the state was against labor leasing. I got a letter in November that my insurance rates were going up 300%. And retroactive to February. Meaning I owed the State Fund a bunch of money. When to court. Lost. I was ready to blow up the courthouse. How could they retroactive my rates. That was against the law. I wanted to hurt someone. Out of business, broke and in debt. And wondering why the state would do that to one of its businesses.
I had to sit down and have a come to Jesusā meeting with myself. The conclusion was that the state was not picking on me. They did the same thing to all small business. My next step was to help the businesspeople like me. Got insurance, not from the State Fund. And went back into business hard and heavy. I concentrated on the construction market. Because they were in the most need of help. Two years later I owned my own building. Five years later I had regional office in many states and a lot of branch offices. My IT Department connected directly to the insurance company computer in real time. Had my own in-house attorneys.
Hmmm. Thatās how you get to be what you call an expert in the labor trade. I did feel like a firefighter, putting out fires all the time. Working with people who only come to you with problems is a very stressful occupation.
Chain Migration, which has been the primary source of low-skilled legal immigration into the United States, has depressed wages and job opportunities for comparably skilled American workers. This has had a profoundly negative impact on African American and Hispanic workers in particular. It is for that reason that famed Civil Rights leader and late Democratic Congresswoman Barbara Jordan called for ending Chain Migration in the mid-1990s.
Sorry, not my conclusion. A fact from Homeland Security Homeland Security dhs.gov