Gender

medical attention when in need is a right, just as life is . Medical attention is not granted, it is a right.
I worked for a company that helped people collect Medicaid and Medicare money. Our big customer was Los Angeles, where lots of people end up in the ER due to lack of planning. There is usually someone there to help them fill out some paperwork, in hopes they will be able to retroactively, but sometimes not. With or without help, things can go wrong, and those bills can be out there for months. We were the last of 5 companies that scrubbed the data and sometimes went through paper files and resubmitted those claims.

That long story is to show that the intent of the law is for all of us to work together to keep people from dying on the street. I think IBL and all of us are familiar with the Bible story about that one. That story shows that the intent has been there for thousands of years, but religious and political leaders have not always put their actions where their words are. It seems, we like the idea of some unexpected hero coming along and helping the person in the ditch who has been beaten nearly to death. It makes it sound noble, and it’s the thing we would do if we saw such a person. When it becomes policy and some tiny percentage of our income is used to manage a program to help those exact people, then it gets labeled “socialism” and the churches say it is their business, not the governments.

Well, do your job church, then we wouldn’t need the government. I kind of like my Leviathans when they don’t require worship, but if I’m breathing clean air and young people can walk to school safely, I wouldn’t complain too much.

Countries With the Most Well-Developed Public Health Care Systems

Canada
Denmark
Sweden
Norway
Germany
United Kingdom
Japan
Australia
Netherlands
Switzerland


https://centerforinquiry.org/forums/topic/gender/page/6/#post-340171

The US ranks 15 th nothing to boast about.

Here’s what transgender people look like. https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/transgender?phrase=transgender&sort=mostpopular Pretty much covers the spectrum of every other group of people.
None of them pass as the gender they are trying to be.
Wow, that is amazingly messed up. Have you considered that the reason transgender people are more likely to commit suicide is BECAUSE they are discriminated against? So, the way to reduce that would be to accept that the binary system we have is cultural? That is, accept the science? No, I guess you haven’t.
Discrimination is not a big factor in suicide. If it was Whites wouldn't have the high suicide rates they have despite rarely experiencing discrimination, whereas Black and Hispanics have low rates of suicide. Trans suicide is most likely caused by the distress of their physical identity not matching the way they feel. The constant alienation takes a toll. That's another problem -- even if trans go through with a sex change they are still trans and can't really have a decent life. For example, their dating options are extremely limited because nobody besides other trans will date them. And the surgeries and hormone therapies require a lifetime of medication.

The idea that a public social welfare is socialism is absurd.

The first public social welfare in Europe was instituted by Bismark, chancellor of the Reich in the 1870 th and 1880th. You can trust me that he was not a socialist.

Socialism is the property of the capital by the people, not by the state, and in opposition with the capitalistic property. Public welfare system has nothing to do with socialism.

My brother and my sister in law, who were doctors in USA, work now in Canada, which has a public welfare system and they don’t think that the system is socialism. In France, I have the choice of my doctor and of my hospital, public or private, I go in any drugstore I want.

A public social welfare is founded on solidarity. It is for the mutual benefit of every one.

The big advantage of a public welfare system is the sharing of the risks by many people. It has been demonstrated that the cost is much less that private insurance and the quality is not inferior.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/

https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/

In some cases, health care can be ruinous, specially in the event of prolonged hospitalization. No one except the very rich people can afford it. And it can happen to anyone, you included.

Most Insurance companies will do anything to no support the cost as they don’t work for the benefit of the insured people but for the benefit of the owners.

In the seventies, the institution of a public welfare system in USa was talked about. A campaign of lies and deception was set up to dissuade US people of accepting it, because Nixon and capitalists did want to guaranty the profits of the private insurance firms.

If you disagree with me, I defy you to watch Sicko, the movie from Mickael Moore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicko

https://watchdocumentaries.com/sicko/

 

 

Would you be interested by a new thread explaining how social welfare functions in europe and especially in France?

 

Discrimination is not a big factor in suicide. If it was Whites wouldn’t have the high suicide rates they have despite rarely experiencing discrimination, whereas Black and Hispanics have low rates of suicide. Trans suicide is most likely caused by the distress of their physical identity not matching the way they feel. The constant alienation takes a toll. That’s another problem — even if trans go through with a sex change they are still trans and can’t really have a decent life. For example, their dating options are extremely limited because nobody besides other trans will date them. And the surgeries and hormone therapies require a lifetime of medication.
You just have everything sorted out in your sordid little mind to meet your sorry little narrative, don't you. You know how everybody thinks and what everybody does and how everybody feels.

 

 

That’s another problem — even if trans go through with a sex change they are still trans and can’t really have a decent life
Why can they not have a decent life? Are you saying that transgenders are being shunned because they are "different"? Have you ever considered that being shunned for being trans rather than being accepted as a person may be the cause for suicide. I have had both homosexual and transgender friends and they were excellent people, intelligent, witty, sensitive, generous, and above all "caring", which I consider to be desirable qualities in "best" friends.

Is it wonder that the suicide rate for being rejected on gender orientation? Suicide has nothing to with gender, it has to do with rejection by straights, just like straight people who are being rejected for some reason (smell?) tend to commit suicide at a greater rate than “popular” people of any sexual orientation.

@thatoneguy

Discrimination is not a big factor in suicide.

It’s not? Not even in some cases? Why not tell that to young Black and Native American people who want to die because of racism? For some people, discrimination is a big factor as to why they want to kill themselves or do kill themselves. You can’t just look at a set of stats and say, “Oh wow! White people have a high rate of suicide, therefore discrimination isn’t a factor.” You have to look at the individual groups too, not just all the various groups together. For a multiracial or multi- sexual orientation or whatever multi- study may that is true, but for various groups, you have to look at the individual groups. That’s like saying discrimination isn’t a factor for Native Americans on a Rez high rate of alcoholism because there is also a high rate of alcoholism among white people. You can’t do that and say it’s accurate to say that just because Natives are on a Rez and discriminated against, it’s not part of their alcoholism. They’re just fine on a Rez. That is really stupid.

For example, their dating options are extremely limited because nobody besides other trans will date them. And the surgeries and hormone therapies require a lifetime of medication.

That’s not true either. My brother-in-law is married to one and he’s not trans.

@mrmhead and I thought I was bad because I don’t get it, but still accept them as human beings… The ignorance I just read is like… “Wow! Unbelievable!” Because I know at least some of what I read, isn’t true, because I do know and met some trans people (5 maybe), even have an in-law who is one. There really needs to be more education even if people get tired of hearing about it.

Here’s what transgender people look like. https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/transgender?phrase=transgender&sort=mostpopular Pretty much covers the spectrum of every other group of people. -- Lausten None of them pass as the gender they are trying to be. --oneguy
You have to be correct about what their birth certificate says and what they see themselves as. Information you don't have. If I ever see a test of some kind, where you have to guess those to things based on a picture, I'll be sure to let you take it.

@mriana

Yes, I know a number of LGBTQ people as well. Friends and family.

Like you, I know much of what was spewed is just not true. And know as in first hand experience/knowledge.

I just see no point in wasting my time arguing with IBL or TOG on this topic anymore.

 

 

Since oneguy is either obstinate and ignorant or a troll, this is more for my own benefit (mrm has the short version in post 340185):

Basic statistics tells you that taking a factor like skin color does not tell you if discrimination is a factor in suicide. Controlling for a variable - Wikipedia

If t you believe he cause is “distress” with physical vs feelings, then what is the cause of how we identify people physically? It wasn’t that long ago men in high society wore makeup and frilly clothing. The “perfect figure” for a woman has changed just in my lifetime as well as over the centuries. You almost never acknowledge culture as a factor in this or any conversation @thatoneguy, you use words like “normal” as if normal was created 6,000 years ago and never changed.

The new normal is science. Racism and other forms of discrimination are being eliminating because of the human genome project. The root of the word has been redefined and the culture is still catching up with that. “Gender” is also getting updated based on evidence and reason. You are being left behind because you can’t accept that.

obstinate and ignorant or a troll
Ha, I was going to say "stupid, willfully ignorant or a troll" - but decided to play nice since I'm still a new guy here ;)

Ignorance can be fixed. Stupidity is forever

 

Racism and other forms of discrimination are being eliminating . . .
Do you have your fingers crossed behind your back when you say that?

What about the tremendous rise of supremacists over the past five, ten years and their air-tight circular arguments?

I mean looking on the bright side is wonderful, but ignoring the dark side …

Ever feel like we’re living in a bifurcated world? Rosy glasses, dark shades and broken spectacles.

@mrmhead I already used stupid in relation to what he posted. lol

https://centerforinquiry.org/forums/topic/gender/page/6/

 

I posted but my post was delayed because it had to pass through moderation, not sure why

Since Lausten is taking a similar approach, when did Jesus in the Bible charge anyone for healing them? When did Jesus make them earn being healed? Jesus most definitely practiced socialized medicine.
Are you saying that Jesus is your moral authority?
Are you saying that Jesus is your moral authority? -- IBL
Oh come on man. (although I don't like this Biden tag line, it's better than Reagan's "well, there you go again")

The New Testament is a rare look at the underclass of an ancient society. There are very few surviving written accounts of people who were enslaved and killed for merely speaking up against their oppressor. Those words survived because they inspired revolution, and they were often right. They said to fight oppression, but also to recognize the soldiers of your oppressor as similarly oppressed.

So, no, I don’t consider Jesus my moral authority. I don’t think there was even a person that fits the gospel narratives. But many of the ideas are valid. And since we can date them to 2,000 years ago, it shows those ideas have been around for a long time. They had to exist before they became scripture.

What’s your moral authority Bob?

No, @ibelieveinlogic , but you seem to and BTW, the story portrays the character of Jesus as a socialist.

not sure why -- morgan
and a nice post it was, the one about health care.

No one knows why things get caught up in the spam filter. It’s related to how many posts you’ve posted. Everyone was getting it when we first switched to this forum software.