Wrong. Every freedom you have is because the rest of us let you have it. You have no more of a right to socialized medicine than I have to a pickup truck.
Right , the life that you have is because the rest of us let you have it.. Healtcare is not a privilege. Everyone is subject to age and/or healthcare as much as they are to life.
Moreover, single payer health coverage is cheaper and better than individual for-profit insurance coverage. It is stupid not to agree on sharing the cost to everyoneâs benefit. Cooperatives are a good thing.
And why they are discriminated against is because they act. look, sound, smell and feel different.
We had a far east young man (nice guy, Indian I think) working in our group who came in to work one morning smelling bad, really bad. Upon inquiry he told us that as part of his religious practice he was required to bath in his own urine. We sent him home and we felt we were justified in doing so.
Where is it written that those with much have a mandate to provide for those who have less? -- Bob
I appreciate that you are engaging more @ibelieveinlogic
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
And many authors since https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/contractarianism-contemporary/
The idea of the social contract goes back at least to Epicurus (Thrasher 2013). In its recognizably modern form, however, the idea is revived by Thomas Hobbes; it was developed in different ways by John Locke, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, and Immanuel Kant. After Kant, the idea largely fell into disrepute until it was resurrected by John Rawls. It is now at the heart of the work of a number of moral and political philosophers.
Moreover, single payer health coverage is cheaper and better than individual for-profit insurance coverage. It is stupid not to agree on sharing the cost to everyoneâs benefit.
It is cheaper for me to not pay for what I don't need. Socialized medicine is better for me? No way.
Asking me to pay for your medical care is beneficial for you of course, but not for me. Are you willing to help me pay for my pickup truck and the maintenance it requires? The fact that I often overload it, drive it off-road a lot and forget to check the fluids regularly wouldnât be an issue for you would it?
Yes, that one is pretty much meaningless. especially where the individual has gone to extremes to appear extreme. Or, would you say you would expect to be able to sit down and have a good discussion of social philosophy with a guy carrying both a gun and a Confederate flag? I think not. I think his MAGA baseball cap would be too much for you to overcome. â Bob
Hereâs what transgender people look like. Transgender Photos and Premium High Res Pictures - Getty Images Pretty much covers the spectrum of every other group of people. I wouldnât want to hug a guy who just finished 10 hours of hay bailing either, but that doesnât mean I want to pass laws against farmers.
And, actually, I do expect to sit down with MAGA guys. Iâve tried. Some people donât want to sit and discuss, and it doesnât matter what hat they have. When I was in Greece I was told by our tour director to not bother talking to the Orthodox priests. Now thatâs a hat!
Asking me to pay for your medical care is beneficial for you of course, but not for me. -- Bob
Okay, we joke a lot, try to one up each other. But I'd really like you to think about this one. Do you pay insurance? Do you get every dollar of that insurance back? You are paying for other people's medical care. That's what insurance is. We aren't "socializing medicine", we are fixing the laws so people don't get rich off you being insured.
The idea of the social contract ... moral and political philosophers.
Morality requires an authority other than the "me" both individually and collectively otherwise it is just "my" choice. "we the people" is not a higher authority; it is just our choice and is ultimately arbitrary.
I was taken (along with three or four other pledges) to a gay bar (we didn't know) one evening. I saw some of the best looking "women" I had ever seen. I have to admit they were very attractive. NO, I didn't. Why? Because my instinct told me not to. Did I miss an interesting and pleasurable night? Maybe, probably, but I'm glad I didn't stay.
One of the guys in the hunt club was asked if he had ever tried getting it on with a man. He said no that he was afraid that he might have really liked it.
Wrong. Every freedom you have is because the rest of us let you have it. You have no more of a right to socialized medicine than I have to a pickup truck.
Wrong! Very wrong. That is a societal attitude you learned. Healthcare IS a human right in a society that gives a damn about whether humans live or die and whether or not they want their citizens to be healthy. Oneâs workforce is only as good as the least healthy person and if their health isnât much good then you donât have a very good workforce. With COVID, there will be a lOT of people in the U.S. who will have health issues, thanks to the dotard, and if they canât get healthcare they will suffer and maybe die. They wonât all be old people. They will be all ages. That means society will have less workers and unfortunately, it is the society and stupid thinking of many U.S. citizens (including the dotardâs) that put them in that position. Still, everyone deserves healthcare regardless of their income. Socialized medicine and a pickup truck are two different things. One is a necessity and the other is not. You do not need a truck, but you do need health in order to get what you want. The truck is a want. Healthcare is a need and a right. There is a BIG difference. A BIG difference between needs and wants. Humans have the right to healthcare, clothing, healthy food, clean water, shelter, and education, because they are basic needs. A truck is not a basic need and itâs not a right. A truck is a want. Too many people do not know the difference and they allow their community to decide for them and in the U.S. is wrongly decided. Yes, I am a U.S. citizen, but the U.S. has it wrong. Europe, Australia, and Canada has a it right, at least when it comes to healthcare. They know health care is a human right, but U.S. citizens are too stupid to know that and believe humans should earn everything and pay for everything. There are just some things in life that are priceless and a human right.
Yes you will, if it is mandated and treated as a tax. Give the people a choice and, as we have seen, it fails.
... paying for other peopleâs medical care ...
The bills for my four bypasses totaled right at half a million dollars. All that I have ever paid into every insurance I have ever had wouldn't amount to that much. At my age there will be no significant return on that expenditure. It cannot be considered an "investment."
On the other hand, if I am able to help the crowd here see the futility of socialism maybe the money you and they paid for my health care was well spent. And, if I live that long I will try to help get Trump reelected in 2024. I hope you all feel like you got a good deal.
Right , the life that you have is because the rest of us let you have it.
Hopefully you were being sarcastic. Regardless, putting @ibelieveinlogic post in this way, makes you wonder why he doesnât support abortion (or maybe he does, but he probably doesnât). Force women to be baby factories and then deny them and their babies healthcare. Life is so precious women must be baby factories and then once that âlifeâ is born into this world and woman and baby survive childbirth, kill them off by denying them healthcare and if they survive, kill them off by making them work hard for it with little to no pay, because they have no right to health. Charge them over $300 in copayments, so they cannot afford to get their meds and they will die off, because they have no right to life after they are born. rolling eyes Sounds like a very inhumane system to me.
And why they are discriminated against is because they act. look, sound, smell and feel different.
(We really need emojis. In this case a jaw dropping shocked emoji) Seriously? Their sweat smells no different than yours- stinky- and last I checked, they all looked human to me. Sound? Gee, all human babies and toddlers sound like apes, which they are, when they cry. All human adults sound like gorillas when they pop off.
Socialized medicine and a pickup truck are two different things. One is a necessity and the other is not.
You believe you need one thing, I believe I need another. I understand that you want healthcare for everyone really badly. Please understand that I really want a pickup. I can't do what I need to do without one. Let's agree that you pay for what you want and I'll pay for what I want. I will really appreciate it if you won't send men with guns to take my money to pay for your health care. I won't send men with guns to take your money to pay for my pickup.
@ibelieveinmagic Since Lausten is taking a similar approach, when did Jesus in the Bible charge anyone for healing them? When did Jesus make them earn being healed? Jesus most definitely practiced socialized medicine.
You believe you need one thing, I believe I need another. I understand that you want healthcare for everyone really badly. Please understand that I really want a pickup. I canât do what I need to do without one. Letâs agree that you pay for what you want and Iâll pay for what I want. I will really appreciate it if you wonât send men with guns to take my money to pay for your health care. I wonât send men with guns to take your money to pay for my pickup.
You confuse human wants and needs. Human needs are as I said. Health care is NOT a want, but a human need. No one needs a truck or guns. No one is talking about sending anyone with guns to force anyone to pay for health care. That comes from oneâs taxes, which also pays for schools, fire department, police, other things. It will also pay for health care. So what if taxes are slightly higher, we will have a healthier society in the long run for it, but I can see if you donât care who drops dead from COVID or worse, have lingering health issues from COVID and drop dead from that⌠Until you get COVID, then you might care, but then again you donât care about life either.
That is called rape and we have laws against it. I expect that the vast majority of abortions are the result of either sex for profit or sex for pleasure, neither of which require force.
Actions have consequences. One consequence of sex without the variety of preventative measures women have available to them today is pregnancy. I find it difficult to believe that there are more than a handful of women who ultimately choose abortion who cannot get at least the âmorning afterâ pill.
The company you work for has no obligation to provide someone for you to have sex with, a place to have sex or the preventative measures you might want to use to avoid pregnancy. The woman is the only authority over her body and she alone has the responsibility for it.
he doesnât support abortion
I would not interfere with a woman's choice to have an abortion. I expect it is the best choice in the vast majority of cases. What I object to is asking me to pay for it. Our government should not condone murder nor pay for it, but we should respect the woman's decision. Abortion is murder, even if the woman has justified it in her mind. If the woman has justified it in her mind I will not question her decision and I think no one else should either.
Yeah, anti-abortion laws to force women to be baby factories, whether they live or die during childbirth and the same goes for the child. If she wants an abortion to terminate a pregnancy because of rape, but is denied it thatâs raping a woman twice, IMO. To deny humans the right to health care is the same thing- forcing them to die. To price gouge insulin to the point that a diabetic cannot afford to get their meds or an asthmatic canât get their inhaler is murder, just as denying a woman to terminate her pregnancy that may kill her. Sometimes, which includes people who want gender reassignment and/or hormones for the gender of their choice, denying them mental health and health care services is basically the same thing. Denying them is contributing to their death.
All that I have ever paid into every insurance I have ever had wouldnât amount to that much. At my age there will be no significant return on that expenditure. -- Bob
Alright, I think that's the best you can do for the moment. You recognize that the world created a system where you lived longer because we all worked together. Millions of people who don't know you, don't know the things you've said about people like them, were willing to trust people with their money, spend it wisely, on each other's health needs.
That system, in America, involves giving some of that money to corrupt and greedy people, like Dr. William McGuire. Somehow, somebody convinced you that he is okay, that the system that created that corruption is okay, while a system that I could vote on, have oversight over, participate in publicly, one that was not designed to profit individuals, that idea (currently implemented in modern countries all over the world) is wrong according to you.
I expect that the vast majority of abortions are the result of either sex for profit or sex for pleasure, neither of which require force. -- Bob
Here's a request. When the thought occurs that begins with "I expect". Look it up. I have changed my mind many times by doing that simple thing. I wanted to be a dirty hippie when I was a kid, and still love the music, but now I get called "boomer" like it's a bad thing, along with Monsanto shill, or I'm told that listening to someone is a form of compromise. It's a price you pay for developing your own worldview instead of finding comfort in someone else's.
IBL said: Wrong. Every freedom you have is because the rest of us let you have it. You have no more of a right to socialized medicine than I have to a pickup truck.
W4U said: Right , the life that you have is because the rest of us let you have it⌠Healthcare is not a privilege. Everyone is subject to age and/or healthcare as much as they are to life.
Mriana said: Hopefully you were being sarcastic.
The comment was in response to the statement by IBL. that health care is not a right, but granted. I was not being so much sarcastic as positive.
IOW if one gets into an accident and has no insurance, ER will not turn you back out on the street to die. IOW, medical attention when in need is a right, just as life is . Medical attention is not granted, it is a right.
The difference between right to life and right to medical care is the medical care requires a mandatory contribution. Anybody who uses this as an argument against, conveniently forgets that if they get hurt but do not have insurance and no means to pay the bill, they still receive care, but now somebody else pays the bill.
IOW they are taking advantage on the right to health care, because of the right to life. Theyâre cheating.