To deal with immigration problems, we need a comprehensive immigration plan/policy comprised of the considerations below (easy to say -- hard to do).: To deal with the problem primarily thru border control is ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS. (I say as a general statement.) To be effective it would require something like a reverse Berlin Wall. Besides being insane, it would not be cost effective. In fact it would be a stupendous waste. If we don’t want immigrants, we should not draw them in. (But we do, apparently, want some immigrants. For those, give them a quick, easy path to legal status and/or citizenship.) For the rest, PUNISH anyone who gives them a job. And don’t provide them social services. (This last one is a hard choice for us humanitarian types, but, I think, necessary. The ONLY social services for them, if necessary, should be ones that keep them alive and safe until they can be deported.) For illegal immigrants who are here now (excluding refugees of violence), the ones who show good potential for being or becoming productive guest workers and/or citizens, give them a quick easy path to legal status/and/or citizenship. Deport all the rest. For illegal immigrants who are fleeing violence, provide a refugee camp where they can stay until they wish to leave our country or until they can be deported safely, whichever comes first. Make it clear and true that those who are exceptional and can contribute can get in legally and quickly. And that the rest will have little incentive to be here. The vast bulk of our resources used to address immigration should be put toward getting the immigrants that we want, excluding the ones we don’t want, punishing persons who hire illegals, and making it clear to the world that this is how it’s going to be.I like your ideas, I would change a couple things. The ones that are here illegally. Make them go. The population of the US is big enough. Look how some of the European countries operate. When labor is short, allow visas. When unemployment is high, no visas. Where is it written you have to make someone a citizen to work in a country. In Europe, people may work in five different counties in a year. They don't make them citizens. It is worth looking at New Zealand and Norway since they both have good long running economies. Check out their immigration system. Tough as hell.
I feel that my post are long so I don’t get into a lot of explanations. So I understand where you are coming from.Do you? The length of your posts is completely within your control. Just answer questions and takes points one at a time instead of introducing new data every time. Now you're saying it's not just Mexico, but you're the one who brought them up in the first place. I don't think it's a matter of you not having the time, or wanting to keep your posts short, I think it's a matter of you not understanding what you're talking about, so you just keep adding on new things as if they more evidence, like Pakistani truck drivers from Ontario. The problem is we have too many bigots in this country and they are holding us back from reforming our immigration laws. Funny, I would think it would be the bigots that want the laws changed.
I feel that my post are long so I don’t get into a lot of explanations. So I understand where you are coming from.Do you? The length of your posts is completely within your control. Just answer questions and takes points one at a time instead of introducing new data every time. Now you're saying it's not just Mexico, but you're the one who brought them up in the first place. I don't think it's a matter of you not having the time, or wanting to keep your posts short, I think it's a matter of you not understanding what you're talking about, so you just keep adding on new things as if they more evidence, like Pakistani truck drivers from Ontario. The problem is we have too many bigots in this country and they are holding us back from reforming our immigration laws. Funny, I would think it would be the bigots that want the laws changed. That's because you think the laws favor the people we are talking about. You think we give too much away to them. The bigots I'm talking about want tougher laws on immigration to keep people out. But once they start talking about what they want to allow in, they don't realize they are talking about almost everyone who currently wants in. You are one of the bigots, you just don't think you are.
...Of course. Political promises are just to please the polls. And I never for one second believed a word Trump said about the wall. Just more political BS. I am afraid Hillary wants in office for her legacy whereas Trump really does want to fix the country. Hillary will have an army of people she will have to make wealthy, whereas Trump will run the country like a business. Now if Hillary could run the country like the Romans, then her manipulative skill would be of value. But I don’t think her and Bill together are that skilled. The question to be answered is at the end of the term. Who will have moved the country closer to becoming a police state with a class system? And I feel that would be Hillary.As far as my view of Hillary's underlying motivations vs. your view of Donald's underlying motivations, we only have what is in the public record to go on, and even with that, we are doing a lot of assuming. Your guess is that Donald "really wants to fix the country" (and by inference, Hillary does not "really want to fix the country"). Your guess is that Hillary's main objective in office will be to make "an army of people" (to whom she owes political favors) wealthy, while Donald will run the USA like his own personal corporation (but to the benefit of all). My guess is that Hillary has always been, ultimately, motivated to do things that "will fix the country" so to speak, and political power is the vehicle though which she has chosen to try to accomplish these things. As far as "skills in political manipulation", my guess is that Hillary is only a little above average among politicians, and that her reputation of being sneaky and manipulative is more a factor of one of the most concerted, relentless, long-lasting and persistent series of attacks, by her opponents on one individual. Bill's political skills, OTOH, are pretty well accepted. (It is weird, that it just came out that Bill may have been instrumental in getting Donald to run for President, but who knows what that is about.) But political manipulation is definitely a skill that can be important for a POTUS. (One weakness of Pres. Obama, I think, has been his below average ability to manipulate Congress. By contrast, for instance, LBJ was a master.) My guess is that Donald, being an egocentric, often pettily vindictive narcissist, would likely make a mess of things to rival the debacle of the last Republican Presidency. And I think that you are really stretching your guessing powers to say that Hillary will move us closer to a police state and a class system, than would Donald. Working with immigration laws. The way it is set up right now is by kind of a so many visas per country based on population and number agreed to by congress. If the country has left over visas, they use them in a sort of lottery system. Then we have to have immigration treaties with these countries. That is handled by the State Department. When we don’t have a treaty with the country we have to use reciprocity agreements. Now, my question is, how much work did Hillary do in this area while she was the head of the State Department to fix the problems? Of the 196 countries in the world, we have treaties now with 13 countries. Hillary had no problem in dealing with banking settlements, which the State Department does not normally handle. But no time to work on the tasks the State Department is set up to do, like immigration treaties.
To deal with immigration problems, we need a comprehensive immigration plan/policy comprised of the considerations below (easy to say -- hard to do).: To deal with the problem primarily thru border control is ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS. (I say as a general statement.) To be effective it would require something like a reverse Berlin Wall. Besides being insane, it would not be cost effective. In fact it would be a stupendous waste. If we don’t want immigrants, we should not draw them in. (But we do, apparently, want some immigrants. For those, give them a quick, easy path to legal status and/or citizenship.) For the rest, PUNISH anyone who gives them a job. And don’t provide them social services. (This last one is a hard choice for us humanitarian types, but, I think, necessary. The ONLY social services for them, if necessary, should be ones that keep them alive and safe until they can be deported.) For illegal immigrants who are here now (excluding refugees of violence), the ones who show good potential for being or becoming productive guest workers and/or citizens, give them a quick easy path to legal status/and/or citizenship. Deport all the rest. For illegal immigrants who are fleeing violence, provide a refugee camp where they can stay until they wish to leave our country or until they can be deported safely, whichever comes first. Make it clear and true that those who are exceptional and can contribute can get in legally and quickly. And that the rest will have little incentive to be here. The vast bulk of our resources used to address immigration should be put toward getting the immigrants that we want, excluding the ones we don’t want, punishing persons who hire illegals, and making it clear to the world that this is how it’s going to be.I like your ideas, I would change a couple things. The ones that are here illegally. Make them go. The population of the US is big enough. Look how some of the European countries operate. When labor is short, allow visas. When unemployment is high, no visas. Where is it written you have to make someone a citizen to work in a country. In Europe, people may work in five different counties in a year. They don't make them citizens. It is worth looking at New Zealand and Norway since they both have good long running economies. Check out their immigration system. Tough as hell. There are illegal immigrants who are contributing to our society and could likely continue to do so, legally or as citizens. I think that we should rigorously identify them and make them legal and give them a quick path to citizenship, if they so desire. Once a quick path to legality and/or citizenship is in place for any immigrants who likely will positively contribute, THEN, as of that point, and forever forward, it should be made absolutely clear that there is nothing here, and will be nothing here, for any further illegal immigrants. And the existing illegal immigrants who are not made legal, if we insure that they cannot get work, and that they cannot get services, will either self deport or turn to crime. If they turn to crime, they should eventually be caught and deported. Those that are not chosen to stay, and who self deport, could get back in line for legal immigration.
There are illegal immigrants who are contributing to our society and could likely continue to do so, legally or as citizens. I think that we should rigorously identify them and make them legal and give them a quick path to citizenship, if they so desire. Once a quick path to legality and/or citizenship is in place for any immigrants who likely will positively contribute, THEN, as of that point, and forever forward, it should be made absolutely clear that there is nothing here, and will be nothing here, for any further illegal immigrants. And the existing illegal immigrants who are not made legal, if we insure that they cannot get work, and that they cannot get services, will either self deport or turn to crime. If they turn to crime, they should eventually be caught and deported. Those that are not chosen to stay, and who self deport, could get back in line for legal immigration.Been there, done that before. The Amnesty in the past has only lead to eight more illegals for every amnesty given out. We have to bite the bullet at some point and just say, “No more".
Been there, done that before. The Amnesty in the past has only lead to eight more illegals for every amnesty given out. We have to bite the bullet at some point and just say, “No more".Why? If we didn't have the jobs, they wouldn't come. If employers didn't profit from them being hired, they wouldn't do it. Our immigration policy needs to match our economic need, not some made-up fantasy English only European melting pot utopia that exists only in your head.
That's because you think the laws favor the people we are talking about. You think we give too much away to them. The bigots I'm talking about want tougher laws on immigration to keep people out. But once they start talking about what they want to allow in, they don't realize they are talking about almost everyone who currently wants in. You are one of the bigots, you just don't think you are.No, I don’t want to keep people out. We have several industries that are in desire need of workers coming here from other countries to work. And I have no problem with that at all. That is what the VISA program is setup to facilitate. Where you and I disagree. I think it is ok to work here then go home. You think if they work here then they have to become a United States citizen. I think that anyone who wants to come and work, great. Sign up for the VISA program. This will guarantee that your taxes and benefits will be paid and you will receive credit for retirement and other benefits. Those benefits in Mexico for example include such items like child care, gym membership, health care and many more benefits that exist in the Social Security system of Mexico that you don’t get here. Like if you want to rent a car or make vacation travel plans you go to the SS office. And by being in the system you are guaranteed you will get the credits for your work here in America in your Mexico SS system. Life expectancy for a Mexican male is 73. Where American male is 79. You can draw benefits if you are out of work in Mexico at the age of 60. America it is 62. At this time, double dipping is no longer allowed. That is collecting benefits from two or more countries. So by making all the workers US citizens, they give up all the benefits they had built up in Mexico for example. The VISA program also you to join the US SS system. That is because not all countries have good retirement systems. You do get to choose your country with VISA. It is working quite well in Europe for years.
Been there, done that before. The Amnesty in the past has only lead to eight more illegals for every amnesty given out. We have to bite the bullet at some point and just say, “No more".Why? If we didn't have the jobs, they wouldn't come. If employers didn't profit from them being hired, they wouldn't do it. Our immigration policy needs to match our economic need, not some made-up fantasy English only European melting pot utopia that exists only in your head. What’s work got to do with citizenship? Why is it you think a person cannot work unless they are US citizen? What the hell has citizenship got to do with employment anyway? Two separate issues. The only thing citizenship of the 12 million illegals assures us is we can expect another 90 million illegals to come here after the Amnesty. Forbes says there are over 100 million Americans not working. RT says 102 million working-age Americans without jobs. And we have 12 million illegals in the country. Just how many more illegals are you wanting to bring into the country Lausten?
You don’t hire a bank robber to control and run your bank. You don’t hire a baker to fix your car. You hire someone that fits the job that has to be done. And Trump is a poor choice for the job of running this country. And I disagree completely on some of his political views. And I think he is totally wrong and misinformed on several big issues. But unless someone else runs, Trump is the best person in the interest of this country to get the country back on track of all the candidates so far. He's also the best candidate to derail the country and send it into a ditch. I would guess that China stopped its expansion in the ocean today, because they want to wait and see if Trump will win. He would be the only leader they would fear that would stop them from stealing land and resources in the South China seas. I guarantee you China does not fear Trump. If anything, they would be overjoyed if he were to win. Then they can make their moves. They know a moron when they see one. So, I don’t care what the rest of the world thinks about Trump. I learned a long time ago. When doing a task or project, and everyone is complaining about how it is being done. Not to worry about the bitching, just do the job right and those same people will be happy in the end and want you back.Recipe for disaster. Yea, but Trump at least has balls to tackle the real major issues that no other politician will touch. Maybe not as big of balls as Hillary’s, she legally steals and lies better than all the other politicians, then tells us what a good job she is doing and we should make her president. No, he has the balls to shoot off his mouth without a grain of sense in his head. He's not tackling major issues, he's using major issues in an effort to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and it's working. He doesn't have a workable solution to any major issue. He doesn't have the intelligence to know what to do about any of them. He appeals to fools' baser instincts. He's another Archie Bunker and nothing more. Lois
That's because you think the laws favor the people we are talking about. You think we give too much away to them. The bigots I'm talking about want tougher laws on immigration to keep people out. But once they start talking about what they want to allow in, they don't realize they are talking about almost everyone who currently wants in. You are one of the bigots, you just don't think you are.No, I don’t want to keep people out. We have several industries that are in desire need of workers coming here from other countries to work. And I have no problem with that at all. That is what the VISA program is setup to facilitate. That is not what you've been saying. You're changing your tune and making up statistics, then challenging to defend things I didn't say. Your numbers, that I'm sure are wrong anyway, don't mean what you think they mean, so your question about how many to "let in" is not worth responding to.
There are illegal immigrants who are contributing to our society and could likely continue to do so, legally or as citizens. I think that we should rigorously identify them and make them legal and give them a quick path to citizenship, if they so desire. Once a quick path to legality and/or citizenship is in place for any immigrants who likely will positively contribute, THEN, as of that point, and forever forward, it should be made absolutely clear that there is nothing here, and will be nothing here, for any further illegal immigrants. And the existing illegal immigrants who are not made legal, if we insure that they cannot get work, and that they cannot get services, will either self deport or turn to crime. If they turn to crime, they should eventually be caught and deported. Those that are not chosen to stay, and who self deport, could get back in line for legal immigration.Been there, done that before. The Amnesty in the past has only lead to eight more illegals for every amnesty given out. We have to bite the bullet at some point and just say, “No more". And with every historical amnesty, we never implemented the policies that must go along with it. There must also be punishment of everyone who hires illegal workers. There must also be a restriction of all social services to illegal aliens. There must also be a rational quick and easy determination of who will be accepted as legal immigrants. If all of those things are not done in unison, it doesn't work.
I think it is ok to work here then go home. You think if they work here then they have to become a United States citizen. - Mike
I don’t think that, I never said anything close to that. And how does this work? Your restricting non-US workers to border towns only.
“The VISA program also you to join the US SS system. That is because not all countries have good retirement systems. You do get to choose your country with VISA. It is working quite well in Europe for years.” - Mike
This isn’t Europe. Bad comparison.
"The VISA program also you to join the US SS system. That is because not all countries have good retirement systems. You do get to choose your country with VISA. It is working quite well in Europe for years." - Mike This isn't Europe. Bad comparison.No, Europe is a great comparison. Because you have to look at the method of employment. And America is following the European pattern. In America today the fastest growing industry is labor leasing. Companies like Boeing, GE, Lockheed, Hilton, Microsoft, just to name a few may only have 15% of their workforce working directly for the company. All the others, work for a labor supply company. An example. Say we wanted to build a new Space Shuttle. First we need project directors. We want the best, so we hire contract mangers from the United States. Next we need designers. We bring in contractors from the US and England. Now we need to build the tooling. We bring in shop bosses from England and the best workers the US has, but we need higher skilled workers than the US has so we bring in workers from Germany, Russia and if we can get the best, they will come from Poland. Otherwise the Russians will be the best we have. A look from another angle. We need say 300 journeyman jig and fixture builders for this project. We can hire 7 from the local area. Now we look at how many there are in the US. And there are 2,000 in the U.S. Now we have to decide the skill level we are going to need. And of the 2,000 there are 260 at the skill level we require. Now the 260 we want are highly skill and are able to work anytime they want. Chances are most of the 260 are working already. But they work for the highest paying. But if we pull them away from other projects, the other projects will just end up pulling them away from us in a bidding war. Not good for getting a project done. So we put the request out for workers. We get 42 of the 260. That gives us 49 of the 300 we are going to need. Next we go to Europe and bring in the other 251. The project is now on its way.
This may be the time to bring up the issues with Mexico. The task Hillary should have been working on as Head of State. As pointed out in the Space Shuttle example, we have no problem working with Europe. And Europe uses the American workforce in the same system. Point being. If you went to Germany to work for three months on a project. Would you expect to pay taxes? Would you expect to have withholdings? Do you think the U.S. government will want a piece of your earnings?
Do you think the Mexican government would like a piece of the earning from the second largest industry of Mexico, which is the workers in America? Only the sale of oil brings in more money to the government. But if the US would sent the taxes earned by Mexicans to Mexico, the windfall would be in the billions and make labor supplied to the US as Mexico’s main resource.
So, why doesn’t Mexico request this to be done? They have, over and over again for a long time now. So why does the U.S. not comply? Mainly, the IRS doesn’t want to. That simple.
An example. Say we wanted to build a new Space Shuttle. First we need project directors. We want the best, so we hire contract mangers from the United States. Next we need designers. We bring in contractors from the US and England. Now we need to build the tooling. We bring in shop bosses from England and the best workers the US has, but we need higher skilled workers than the US has so we bring in workers from Germany, Russia and if we can get the best, they will come from Poland. Otherwise the Russians will be the best we have.You're naming countries and judging people on that alone. How is that not prejudice?
An example. Say we wanted to build a new Space Shuttle. First we need project directors. We want the best, so we hire contract mangers from the United States. Next we need designers. We bring in contractors from the US and England. Now we need to build the tooling. We bring in shop bosses from England and the best workers the US has, but we need higher skilled workers than the US has so we bring in workers from Germany, Russia and if we can get the best, they will come from Poland. Otherwise the Russians will be the best we have.You're naming countries and judging people on that alone. How is that not prejudice? These are industrial trade common knowledge facts you are talking about. Not my opinions. The Swiss are also known in metal machining and tool building. But they are not known for their labor forces working as contractors outside of the country. They seem to have a steady economy. Germany use to be known for the best skills in the trade, but they are dying off now and you don’t see as many as you use to coming over here. England is got a really good system that produces great talent. When a kid is fourteen he can choose to work in the trades. The schools work with the industries and train the kids. That why project directors and plant bosses are available out of England. Once the wall came down we got access to a lot of talent. But even before that, it was not uncommon to see guys who came from behind the iron curtain working on defense contracts, they were that good. If you’re a boss working in the aerospace industry. You need to bring in 100 workers. You call a labor leasing company and you will get a stack of resumes the next day. You will know by the country and companies they were working for on the resumes the skill levels of the workers. That’s how it works. It is the same thing with Mexico. If you want a good dairy worker, it is known as a young man’s trade. Most workers are below twenty-five years of age. You want someone who has worked with animals, can understand and are good to the animals, are able to work outdoors in all types of weather, and can work well with others and be at work when required. New York City would not be the place to look for these types of skills. Rural Mexico would be an idea place.
...If you want a good dairy worker, it is known as a young man’s trade. Most workers are below twenty-five years of age. You want someone who has worked with animals, can understand and are good to the animals, are able to work outdoors in all types of weather, and can work well with others and be at work when required. New York City would not be the place to look for these types of skills. Rural Mexico would be an idea place.Oh yeah? What if our American cows don't understand Spanish? Oh, wait... our American cows probably wouldn't understand that New York City dialect, either. :)
So you have experience in the dairy industry and defense contracts? Your stories are starting to unravel.
So you have experience in the dairy industry and defense contracts? Your stories are starting to unravel.Lausten, I have worked in the oilfields of five states, I have worked on the Bart railroad at Rohr industries. I have worked in the shipyards at Southwest Marine. I have worked in the Aerospace as a journeyman in the trades of Plaster Pattern Maker, Machine Tool Rebuilder, Tool and Die Maker, Template Maker, Planner, Tooling Inspector, Mold Maker and Machinist. I also did some auto cad point to point programing, but not as a Journeyman. I have worked in construction. I have own companies that have trained workers in the Aerospace and certified satellites. I started and ran the largest construction labor leasing company in the U.S. I also started and ran the largest dairy labor leasing company in the U.S. for fun in my retirement. Plus many more things. Yes, I feel I have had a great life and was on the cutting edge of employment. My first business was free windshield wash at the drive-in. Had a sign that showed the sponsor of the free windshield wash. Made tips and helped out at the snack bar. Got paid with food. Not a bad job for a kid. I had my fifteenth birthday working in the oilfield as a roughneck Derick hand in Nebraska. Before the oilfield I was a farmhand on a combine crew for six months in Wyoming. Before that I sold Amway, eggs and Electrolux vacuums, the grit paper and boxes of holiday cards door to door. I delivered newspapers, mowed lawns and shoveled snow. Pretty much have work my whole life. One year I was working on the F-20 and B-2 at Northrop Grumman running a crew of men. That year I only had 4 days off. The last hourly job was on the C-17 for Boeing. I worked 7/12 while also operating a small labor leasing company at the same time. At 21 I opened up a beer bar. That was fun. But at the same time I was working for Amtek Straza as a machine tool rebuilder and had a small woodworking shop on the side. At 23 I got a change in the California health regulation and got a contract with the City of San Diego to put a bamboo shack on La Jolla beach and sell soda and candy. I was also working as a journeyman Machine Tool Rebuilder making the top hourly wage pay to hourly employees at General Dynamics in San Diego. Raising a family and doing a little gold mining in Baja Mexico. I love to fly fish the wood rivers in Idaho, do a little spelunking with the caving group and ride my Harley. Riding the Harley is the only thing i have gotten to do in the last couple of years. I still take on a few projects to keep my mind active. I have never had time to hit a golf ball. Now that my health is coming back. I want to spend a couple weeks at the beach. That was one of my enjoyments when working in the factories, was to cliff dive or just spend Sunday at the beach swimming and barbecuing with the family. Enough about me for now, Tell me about the careers in your in your life.