Did you stick by some of those principles that Jesus taught, simply because you recognised them as good, even if you no longer believed in God.Of course. I am and was a humanist before identifying, also, as an Atheist. You know, "Bring up a child in the way he should go...".
Of course. I am and was a humanist before identifying, also, as an Atheist.What has humanism got to do with the teaching of Jesus?
What has humanism got to do with the teaching of Jesus?You mean like:
“Love your enemies…”
'Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you… have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy…"
“Blessed are the poor…” “Blessed are the merciful…” “Blessed are the peacemakers…”
He literally physically whipped the usurers who were exploiting (stealing from others) in the Temple. He referred to those particular capitalists as a “Den of Thieves”. I think he was pissed off.
Jesus pretty much loved EVERYBODY. Not just himself, or his family, or his friends, or his tribe, or his country, or his political group… but EVERYBODY.
So I suggest there is a lot in there that is in common with humanism.
Come on, man. You are a self-proclaimed atheist who condemns Christianity as a superstition. You are interpreting Jesus’ teaching like a rooster in a Las Vegas hen house.
You mean like:“Love your enemies…”
Do you love Trump?
‘Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you… have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy…”Who are the scribes and pharisees to you? Are they Forbes list of billionaires, captains of industry, Republican politicians, conservative judges, and who else?
“Blessed are the poor…” “Blessed are the merciful…” “Blessed are the peacemakers…”How would an atheist like you bless them? Hold their hands and take a knee?
He literally physically whipped the usurers who were exploiting (stealing from others) in the Temple. He referred to those particular capitalists as a “Den of Thieves”. I think he was pissed off.Do you think this tale was put in the Bible by God? It is more likely that someone like you made it up for preaching to protestors to whip up their fury against the rich in 400 AD.
Jesus pretty much loved EVERYBODY. Not just himself, or his family, or his friends, or his tribe, or his country, or his political group… but EVERYBODY.Grow up. Jesus is a myth. The Bible is a book of teaching stories. You sound like a kid regurgitating stuff from Sunday school. Stop hallucinating.
So I suggest there is a lot in there that is in common with humanism.Humanist beliefs stress the value of the human species as defined by science (i.e. Darwin). Humanism emphasizes common needs of Homo sapiens, and seek solely rational ways of solving problems of this taxonomic unit. I lifted this off the internet. Admittedly, all this is Greek to me.
I am no more a humanist than you are a Christian. Please correct me if I am wrong about your beliefs.
This is blatant trolling Sree. You made some pretty strong claims to Christianity recently, now, when someone presents their view of the parables and stories, you switch to saying “Jesus is a myth”. I can love you and act compassionately to you, and ban you from this forum. This is all perfectly consistent.
See bottom of page three my response to Sree’s trolling
I lack certainty, am still thinking about it. These are my thoughts. I welcome yours. This passage is something I have never properly got to grips with.Ok, I appreciate your humility in admitting that this passage requires further inquiry. However, you did suggest that poverty of wisdom rather than what I meant by poor (financially non-viable) could be what Jesus was pointing to. Rich fools are not my concern, humanity in the grip of malignant poverty is what bothers me.
But one thing it brings to mind is that riches represent spiritual riches. But nearly all the worldly riches one has today are in theory only, fictional debts owned via fictional entities. There comes a day soon they will be worthless. Wisdom does not so easily fade.What people need is food, clothing and shelter. Wisdom is nice to have but it is a personal skill for showing off. The teaching of Jesus, to me, has to do with the alleviation of human suffering. I guess I am biased and am seeking a different meaning in Mathhew 26.11.
Understand though, that money does not dictate what one can do or not do, how only is able to help the poor or not.Helping the poor is a cop out. It’s the height of hypocrisy. The rich helping the poor, the wise teaching the dumbass. This is what social injustice is all about. Money can do a lot if you have it. The trouble is that many are called but few are chosen to have a private jet, fancy yacht, palatial homes and a billion dollars cash in the bank.
God gives us what we need for day, and if there is something in our hand to give that is needed, we may freely give knowing that God is able to provide much more.But God doesn’t give us what we need. Humanity is dying from poverty even in America, the greatest social experiment in the history of mankind.
If you would like to help the poor, do what you can with what you have, and if you also seek and hear God, God will surely prosper you in accordance with Psalm 1.I don’t want to help anybody. I am dying here and God had better hear me.
But God doesn’t give us what we need. Humanity is dying from poverty even in America, the greatest social experiment in the history of mankind.Do you ask? Do you have faith to receive or do you rather trust more in money that likewise evades you?
I don’t want to help anybody. I am dying here and God had better hear me.Well hear this from Matthew 7:
- Judge not, that ye be not judged.
- For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Here are some words from a Psalm David wrote:
Psalm 18:24 Therefore hath the LORD recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.18:25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;
18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.
18:27 For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks.
This is among the rules I live by. They work for me:
Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
There have been many weeks this year I have had no money for food. I don’t care. Yet God still feeds me every day. This seems reasonable to me. How is your rational approach working for you?
@timb rightly points out that mercy is forgotten among the Pharisees. Yet this is not just Jesus’ teaching throughout the old testament God criticises and corrects his own people:
6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.The rich, while their portion may be in this life, think it is ok to have money. But do you when you have money seek to give it away in accordance with your belief that people should not be rich?
Apply some rational thought.
I should have known better than to try to give a real response to Sree’s trolling rhetorical question. Sometimes I make a mistake. It happens.
But do you when you have money seek to give it away in accordance with your belief that people should not be rich? Apply some rational thought. by loveofgodI hope you are not accusing me of the belief that people should not be rich. I love the rich. I want more people to be rich. I just want their unnecessary excess of wealth to be taxed for the benefit of all. That seems quite rational to me. But maybe you can come up with some interpretation of scripture to say otherwise, Christian.
There have been many weeks this year I have had no money for food. I don’t care. Yet God still feeds me every day. This seems reasonable to me.Reasonable? Are you dumpster diving or what? I hear from an elderly liberal aunt, who helps out at a soup kitchen, that the food there is pretty good. It's probably leftovers they throw out from buffets at fancy hotels like the Grand Hyatt. This is not my idea of God's bounty.
How is your rational approach working for you?I wouldn't claim that mine is a rational approach. I just step off the treadmill, gave up my career at a top corporation and quit. My parents thought I was crazy. I told them I didn't care if they abandoned me. Thank God, I have rich parents. They have been bankrolling me for the last ten years or so in my search for meaning in Jesus' teaching. I am their only child and sole heir.
I hope you are not accusing me of the belief that people should not be rich. I love the rich. I want more people to be rich.My comments were aimed at @sree.
I just want their unnecessary excess of wealth to be taxed for the benefit of all. That seems quite rational to me.Since when did taxes go to benefit all?
I suppose if taxes were spent at helping the poor, this may seem like a good thing. But money operates much more like “likes” on facebook. It doesn’t cost facebook anything, yet facebook trades them to control people’s behaviour.
Paul raised taxes on the church to send “unto Jerusalem”. I haven’t yet traced through exactly how plausible this is given he seems to have little to do with the Jews at Jerusalem.
If you would like to help people, it is better to so directly when you have opportunity, I think. And what people really suffer from is a lack of understanding.
But maybe you can come up with some interpretation of scripture to say otherwise, Christian.Did I say I was a Christian? It was at Antioch they were called Christians.
You are causing me to contemplate the history of taxation…
I wouldn’t claim that mine is a rational approach. I just step off the treadmill, gave up my career at a top corporation and quit. My parents thought I was crazy. I told them I didn’t care if they abandoned me. Thank God, I have rich parents. They have been bankrolling me for the last ten years or so in my search for meaning in Jesus’ teaching. I am their only child and sole heir.So you are exactly seeking first the kingdom of God, and you are exactly also being provided for.
Do you even use the Authorised Version? That’s the real Jesus.
I suppose if taxes were spent at helping the poor, this may seem like a good thing.Yes. Wouldn't it though... If you used the taxes to give a poor person, $1,000 a month, that would make the person less poor. Wouldn't it? They couldn't have paid rent or bills or bought food or medicine with Facebook "Likes". But if they work it right, they might survive with the $1000. It would be almost like a "blessing", so to speak, to the poor in spirit.
And if this were applied by governed actions, (and it could be) to all poor citizens, the “blessings” would be manifested for them all.
Since when did taxes go to benefit all?Since the Progressive Liberals gained firm political power in the USA. (Someday. We shall overcome some day.)
So you are exactly seeking first the kingdom of God, and you are exactly also being provided for.Guess so. God works in strange ways. My parents were distressed and thought I was nuts. I just up and left. I went to India. At the time, the Bible seemed shallow and silly to me. I was delving into it with a western mind which is like a blunt tool.
Do you even use the Authorised Version? That’s the real Jesus.Jesus is a myth. What is important is the message, not the messenger. All we have is the teaching: Jesus' words in red. They are as inscrutable as the teaching of the Buddha and the ancient texts of China's sages.
All we have is the teaching: Jesus’ words in red. They are as inscrutable as the teaching of the Buddha and the ancient texts of China’s sages.You got another laugh out of me. You try to say such "wise" things. Like a young child, confidently pretending to be someone who knows stuff.
You got another laugh out of me. You try to say such “wise” things. Like a young child, confidently pretending to be someone who knows stuff.But I don't know stuff! And this is the whole thrust to my debates with you know-it-alls dominating the battle space here. I have been spending the last ten years taking apart things I had always believed were true. It has been quite an unsettling experience. I felt like a florid schizophrenic becoming aware of his own insane persona. I am now constantly watchful and observing myself. A therapist would diagnose my condition as paranoid schizophrenia, a state known to Buddhists as vipassana or insight meditation.
Wow. Now you plead insanity? Wow. You are not schizophrenic, and no competent diagnostician would label you as such.
I am very skeptical that you are on a journey of finding the truth for yourself. But if you are, good luck with it. You seem to have been looking in the wrong direction so often.
Jesus is a myth. What is important is the message, not the messenger. All we have is the teaching: Jesus’ words in red. They are as inscrutable as the teaching of the Buddha and the ancient texts of China’s sages.I always hated the idea of putting Jesus' words in red, and not putting every word of the bible in red. However one colours the words, it is making a theological statement that is a matter of interpretation that is likely misleading.
If you say they are inscrutable, it would suggest they need further study.
To me Buddha’s teachings seem as though that might have ultimately been rooted in the wisdom of Solomon. The story about Buddha’s life, really reminds me of the book of Ecclesiastes. And I think the idea of enlightenment as a one off event may often be a misinterpretation. If one studies a koan and is enlightened, doesn’t that just mean that one understands it.
I always hated the idea of putting Jesus’ words in red, and not putting every word of the bible in red.The whole Bible comprises more than Jesus' teaching. It includes Hebrew scripture and writings of other people. Aren't the words of Jesus of material importance?
However one colours the words, it is making a theological statement that is a matter of interpretation that is likely misleading.The words of Jesus tell us things he said. In themselves, there is no theology. I am trying to understand what those words mean. Jesus was pointing out things that we were doing wrong and turning Judaism on its head. I too want to know how George Floyd could have turned the other cheek. It all began with Cup Foods calling the cops over a fake $20 dollar bill. These days, folks could kill each other over a hamburger at MacDonald's. We just can't seem to suffer an injustice and stuff it. This, to me, seems to be the root of evil.
If you say they are inscrutable, it would suggest they need further study.Yes,indeed. It's been two thousand years and they still need further study. We are not as smart as we think for being the sharpest of all the species.
To me Buddha’s teachings seem as though that might have ultimately been rooted in the wisdom of Solomon. The story about Buddha’s life, really reminds me of the book of Ecclesiastes.You seem to like associating one thing with another even when no connection exists.
And I think the idea of enlightenment as a one off event may often be a misinterpretation. If one studies a koan and is enlightened, doesn’t that just mean that one understands it.It is not a one off event. If you want to discuss the Buddha's teaching, I can do that also. I do see a connection between the teaching of the Buddha and Jesus' teaching. To me, the Buddha is also a myth. What is important, as in Jesus' case, is the teaching and not the teacher. As for the Buddha, our inquiry gets more difficult because nobody knows what he taught. There are no "Buddha's words in red". It's true, according to academic studies on the origin of Buddhism. The Buddhist canons are all the work of monks who invented Buddhism. So, please tell me what you mean by the Buddha's teaching which you said is rooted in the wisdom of King Solomon.