One of the things that always gets me about some types of Christians is how hypocritical they are as far as capitalism is concerned. But maybe I’m missing something. So I’d like to ask any Christians on the forum how they’d answer these questions:
Preaching is a form of education. I’m pretty sure Jesus didn’t charge those to whom he preached. Since I always hear Christians say we should model our own behavior from Jesus’, does that mean education should be free?
Similarly for healthcare. Jesus’ healing was a form of healthcare. Again, I’m pretty sure he didn’t collect a fee before healing the sick. So shouldn’t we see Christians at the forefront of the effort to have free universal healthcare?
Yeah, don’t expect too much here. I can’t say I’ve heard a fundamentalist politician really tackle those either, or a “job-creator”.
Capitalism didn’t even exist until about 1500 years after Jesus anyway. One of the frequently used passages is the parable of the talents. Some churches even hand out money and ask parishioners to return with more the next week. The problem with that parable is the “casting into the outer darkness” at the end, that gets a bit harsh for most preachers.
There is an alternate interpretation, sometimes attributed to Gustav Guiterrez and can be found in the book, “Parables as Subversive Speech”. It says the parable is a warning about what it’s like when you stand up for what you believe and don’t use your wealth to exploit others or simply pursue more wealth.
One of the things that always gets me about some types of Christians is how hypocritical they are as far as capitalism is concerned. But maybe I'm missing something. So I'd like to ask any Christians on the forum how they'd answer these questions:
1) Preaching is a form of education. I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't charge those to whom he preached. Since I always hear Christians say we should model our own behavior from Jesus', does that mean education should be free?
2) Similarly for healthcare. Jesus' healing was a form of healthcare. Again, I'm pretty sure he didn't collect a fee before healing the sick. So shouldn't we see Christians at the forefront of the effort to have free universal healthcare?
I think to understand these things you must separate the idea of a religion from the idea of government. They aren't the same. Jesus and the early church lived under the government of Pagan Rome and were required to pay taxes to Rome and live by the laws of Rome. When Jesus sent his disciples out to preach the good news of the kingdom, he instructed them to preach the message freely. Those who heard the message had an obligation to provide for those who were preaching. But that obligation was a religious one, not one backed by the Roman government.
Today in the US, Christians live by the laws of the US and pay taxes to the US government. That's a governmental responsibility. In most churches, anyone may attend and hear the message freely, but those who hear the message have the responsibility of sharing a portion of their income with the pastor and church. That's a religious responsibility. If you aren't a Christian and don't go to church, you still have your obligation to the government, but not to any church.
Christianity is silent on what sort of economic system any government institutes. That's not its purview.
In the US, education is provided free of charge for everyone up to graduation from High School. It is not without cost, however. Taxpayers pay for the school facilities, maintenance, faculty and staff, plus all their benefits, and so on. They also pay to support Community Colleges and State Universities and all the associated costs there as well. Nothing is free, it's simply a matter of who pays for it. Same with healthcare. Healthcare is expensive. The debate is not about it being free, but about who will pay for everyone's healthcare costs and the cost of insurance and how. That's a government concern, not a religious one. My concern as a Christian is to obey the laws of the country where I live, and be honest in paying my taxes and keeping my word.
Healthcare is expensive. The debate is not about it being free, but about who will pay for everyone's healthcare costs and the cost of insurance and how. That's a government concern, not a religious one. My concern as a Christian is to obey the laws of the country where I live, and be honest in paying my taxes and keeping my word.
But who makes up the government? Christianity, Judaism and Islam all have a few passages about co-existing with the gov't. I won't try to interpret them. I think we're addressing Christians who live in some form of democracy here, so the question is, what should the Christian vote be? Or, what should Christians lobby for? If you say, "nothing, we'll just sit over here and pray about it", I think you need to read your Bible again.
One of the things that always gets me about some types of Christians is how hypocritical they are as far as capitalism is concerned. But maybe I'm missing something. So I'd like to ask any Christians on the forum how they'd answer these questions:
1) Preaching is a form of education. I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't charge those to whom he preached. Since I always hear Christians say we should model our own behavior from Jesus', does that mean education should be free?
2) Similarly for healthcare. Jesus' healing was a form of healthcare. Again, I'm pretty sure he didn't collect a fee before healing the sick. So shouldn't we see Christians at the forefront of the effort to have free universal healthcare?
I think to understand these things you must separate the idea of a religion from the idea of government. They aren't the same. Jesus and the early church lived under the government of Pagan Rome and were required to pay taxes to Rome and live by the laws of Rome. When Jesus sent his disciples out to preach the good news of the kingdom, he instructed them to preach the message freely. Those who heard the message had an obligation to provide for those who were preaching. But that obligation was a religious one, not one backed by the Roman government.
Today in the US, Christians live by the laws of the US and pay taxes to the US government. That's a governmental responsibility. In most churches, anyone may attend and hear the message freely, but those who hear the message have the responsibility of sharing a portion of their income with the pastor and church. That's a religious responsibility. If you aren't a Christian and don't go to church, you still have your obligation to the government, but not to any church.
Christianity is silent on what sort of economic system any government institutes. That's not its purview.
In the US, education is provided free of charge for everyone up to graduation from High School. It is not without cost, however. Taxpayers pay for the school facilities, maintenance, faculty and staff, plus all their benefits, and so on. They also pay to support Community Colleges and State Universities and all the associated costs there as well. Nothing is free, it's simply a matter of who pays for it. Same with healthcare. Healthcare is expensive. The debate is not about it being free, but about who will pay for everyone's healthcare costs and the cost of insurance and how. That's a government concern, not a religious one. My concern as a Christian is to obey the laws of the country where I live, and be honest in paying my taxes and keeping my word.So are you saying those Christians who DO work to effect government are un-Christian? Are you also saying for example that Christians should never have fought against slavery for example? I think maybe you missed my point. Of course Christians work to effect the places in which they live. My point is, given Jesus gave away education and healthcare freely and without cost, Christians, who claim to want to model his behavior, should be at the forefront of working with Liberals to make education and healthcare in the US free to all. To the extent that they don't, and instead work to keep the current capitalist greed/profit driven model in place, they are definitely un-Christlike.
My point is, given Jesus gave away education and healthcare freely and without cost, Christians, who claim to want to model his behavior, should be at the forefront of working with Liberals to make education and healthcare in the US free to all. To the extent that they don't, and instead work to keep the current capitalist greed/profit driven model in place, they are definitely un-Christlike.
Jesus gave away his own work. Christians often do the same. You, however, are asking for something quite different. Regardless of the kind of economic system a nation has, all wealth is produced by the work of its people. Governments may print currency and govern the monetary system, but what makes that currency worth anything is the work the people do to produce goods and services. Because of that reality, whether you are capitalist or socialist, there is no such thing as free education and healthcare for all. If you think that liberals have the ability to produce education and healthcare out of thin air, you have allowed yourself to be deceived. In ancient Greece and Rome they used slaves to do the work. We don't allow slavery anymore so teachers and doctors must be paid for their services. That means education and healthcare can never be free, someone must pay for it. You may be able to find instances of teachers and doctors giving away their work like Jesus did, but for the most part they need to be paid to provide for themselves and their own families like everyone else.
So again, the question is not whether we can make education and healthcare free for all. We can't. The question is whose going to pay for it.
So again, the question is not whether we can make education and healthcare free for all. We can't. The question is whose going to pay for it.
What wording would you prefer? I think the gist of the question is how do we make these things available to all in a fair and equitable manner. So let's not focus on "free". In the US, we have problems on all sides of this question; corporations can charge ridiculous prices for health services, insurance is tied to the wealth of your employer, the unemployed have horrible options. There are many aspects that I think a Christian would have an opinion.
Some claim Jesus was basically communist, "from each according to their abilities". I don't care for that. I think John Wesley had a better way of saying it, "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity." We can still argue about what is essential and how to be unified, but it's a good start.
My point is, given Jesus gave away education and healthcare freely and without cost, Christians, who claim to want to model his behavior, should be at the forefront of working with Liberals to make education and healthcare in the US free to all. To the extent that they don't, and instead work to keep the current capitalist greed/profit driven model in place, they are definitely un-Christlike.
Jesus gave away his own work. Christians often do the same. You, however, are asking for something quite different. Regardless of the kind of economic system a nation has, all wealth is produced by the work of its people. Governments may print currency and govern the monetary system, but what makes that currency worth anything is the work the people do to produce goods and services. Because of that reality, whether you are capitalist or socialist, there is no such thing as free education and healthcare for all. If you think that liberals have the ability to produce education and healthcare out of thin air, you have allowed yourself to be deceived. In ancient Greece and Rome they used slaves to do the work. We don't allow slavery anymore so teachers and doctors must be paid for their services. That means education and healthcare can never be free, someone must pay for it. You may be able to find instances of teachers and doctors giving away their work like Jesus did, but for the most part they need to be paid to provide for themselves and their own families like everyone else.
So again, the question is not whether we can make education and healthcare free for all. We can't. The question is whose going to pay for it.You quibble with words. We absolutely can make education and healthcare free, just like Jesus did. Have the government pay for it. Of course citizens need to pay the government, so technically it's not 100% free, but the net effect is the same. In the same way Jesus gave away his work but only because someone gave him a loaf of bread to live off of in order to preach. People valued Jesus' message so supported him in his preaching. I'm suggesting Christians should do the same...support education and healthcare for all of God's children by giving the government "bread" so that individuals don't need to pay a special fee above and beyond taxes. Now of course I'm assuming Jesus loved all of God's children equally. I could be wrong there. Maybe he was a bigot.
Have the government pay for it. Of course citizens need to pay the government, so technically it's not 100% free, but the net effect is the same.
So your ideal form of government is the one which taxes the wealth you work for, takes out a substantial percentage to pay themselves and fund their bureaucracy, then trickles back to you what they think you should have and in the form you should have it--education, healthcare, food, housing--and for you that's getting everything for free! You are a sucker*.
*One who is easily deceived; a dupe.
Have the government pay for it. Of course citizens need to pay the government, so technically it's not 100% free, but the net effect is the same.
So your ideal form of government is the one which taxes the wealth you work for, takes out a substantial percentage to pay themselves and fund their bureaucracy, then trickles back to you what they think you should have and in the form you should have it--education, healthcare, food, housing--and for you that's getting everything for free! You are a sucker*.
*One who is easily deceived; a dupe.
And there it is. Government does not serve the people, nor it is run by the people, it just takes from the people. Despite all the data to the contrary, it requires a substantial percentage of the wealth you work for to fund the bureaucracy. Substantial compared to what? Compared to the percentage that goes to making health care CEOs some of the richest people in the country? Nice use of the word "trickle" by the way, a term generally used for a form of voodoo economics that was tried and failed and is still causing our economy to falter when it should be soaring.
Lucky for me I built my own personal highway to get to work, and I drive a car that is safe because I did my own studies and had it custom built to insure that, and I created a global tracking system that keeps all the drunks and speeders away from me, while my rottweiler protects my home when I'm not there and my neighbors home-school their kids so they understand that what's mine is mine and what's their's might be mine if they don't watch out, because well, 2nd amendment.