I can’t wrap my head around such a notion.
We are a lot of things, and in a few ways we are a failed species, though that has yet to fully play out, but physics is physics, so there’s that, but primitive? Doesn’t make any sense to me.
Hmmm, what reality are you talking about?
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Hmmm, what reality are you talking about?
The continual process of enfolded potential becoming manifest.
I agree with that. Emotions are purely chemical processes that result in a self-aware experience of comfort or discomfort.
That answer is less clear.
So?
[quote=“lausten, post:43, topic:9368, full:true”]
That answer is less clear.
IMO, it is comprehensive.
So?
They are not a result of thought but of physical processes. The process can already be observed in say a Mimosa plant. Does this make the plant (proto)-conscious?
Seems more like woo-woo
It’s the radical meaning of astrology that the natal chart implies this enfolded potential that like an acorn contains a great tree, in potentia. (Jones, 2015)
We don’t know what thoughts are exactly. You could say it’s all chemical, which is like saying “it just is” which is like saying, not much. It avoids the question.
[quote=“lausten, post:45, topic:9368, full:true”]
An Astrological Map of the Soul: Merging the Archetype of the Self with the Natal Chart | by Rosanna Kalashyan | Medium
Seems more like woo-woo
It’s the radical meaning of astrology that the natal chart implies this enfolded potential that like an acorn contains a great tree, in potentia. (Jones, 2015)
I don’t believe that Astrology has been proven to predict the future manifestation of inherent Universal potentials. It is what is claimed , but I am still looking for any proof.
We don’t know what thoughts are exactly. You could say it’s all chemical, which is like saying “it just is” which is like saying, not much. It avoids the question.
We know that it is chemical and we have mapped electro-chemical activities in large portions of the brain.
You must consider that the brain contains some 86 billion neurons which are connected by some ~0.15 quadrillion synapses—or 150,000,000,000,000 synapses.
Try to map that network processing a continuous stream of fleeting quantum bits of data.
Neurotransmission: The Synapse
It’s very hard to measure in living human beings. But current post-mortem studies, where scientists examine the brains of deceased individuals, suggest that the average male human brain contains about 86 billion neurons. If each neuron is home to hundreds or even thousands of synapses, the estimated number of these communication points must be in the trillions.
Current estimates are listed somewhere around 0.15 quadrillion synapses—or 150,000,000,000,000 synapses.
What Is Synaptic Transmission?
Generally speaking, it’s just another way to say neurotransmission. However, it specifies that the communication occurring between brain cells is happening at the synapse as opposed to some other communication point. One neuron, often referred to as the pre-synaptic cell, will release a neurotransmitter or other neurochemical from special pouches clustered near the cell membrane called synaptic vesicles into the space between cells. Those molecules will then be taken up by membrane receptors on the post-synaptic, or neighboring, cell. When this message is passed between the two cells at the synapse, it has the power to change the behavior of both cells.
Chemicals from the pre-synaptic neuron may excite the post-synaptic cell, telling it to release its own neurochemicals. It may tell the post-synaptic cell to slow down signaling or stop it altogether.
https://dana.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/fact-sheet-neurotransmission-synapse-baw-2020.pdf
Yes, we are primitive. We fight with each other, we kill (other animals and other humans), have wars, violence in general, so unless they see us as many humans see other animals or are they themselves violent and murderous, they’d more than likely see us as primitive. Humans are not at all civilized and it has nothing to do with emotions. We are just barbarically violent.
I can’t find non-woo-woo uses of “enfolded potential” .
Reailty exists wether or not the chemicals combine to make us or not. It was here before us and will continue long after.
Check out David Bohm. He made a persuasive case that the laws of probability demand a prior condition where future deterministic events are already present in latent form. Bohm called this the “implicate” or “enfolded” order.
The definition clearly states that : “Potential is that which may become reality”
This is not woo but a fasifiable hypothesis. Bohmian Mechanics are a respected discipline in the scientific world.
Purely chemical processes?
Here again, you seem to dismiss the environmental component.
Emotions, without circumstance?
sort of like
Biological patterns, “information,” without evolution?
Not only that, it’s not very poetic. I like:
Folds within folds of cumulative harmonic complexity flowing down the cascade of time.
But then, I’m a humanist and not a mathematician. 
You just showed a valid definition of “potential” and the “enfolded order”… 
“Just”
That’s been my go to line for years. 
We simply see the world through a different set of eyes. 
LOL… with “just” I meant to say "
That’s kind of my point. I know there were politics involved in how Bohm was treated. I also know that there aren’t experiments going on to try to validate his ideas. You say it’s falsifiable. I’m not so sure about that. Seems like you’d need a thousand-year-long study.
Stanford doesn’t include implicate order
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-bohm/
How about this?
Bohmian Mechanics, 1980,
Wholeness and the Implicate Order, New York: Routledge. Bohm, David and Basil J. Hiley, 1993,…reacted to Bohm’s discovery: But in 1952 I saw the impossible done. It was in papers by David Bohm. Bohm…Implications: Essays in Honour of David Bohm, Basil J. Hiley and F. David Peat, New York: Routledge & Kegan…
Sheldon Goldstein
Bohmian Mechanics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Holism and Nonseparability in Physics –193. Bohm, D., 1980,
Wholeness and the Implicate Order, London: Routledge & Kegan Paul. Bohm, D. and…context of Bohm’s interpretation. But there are alternative views of the ontology of the Bohm theory (see…practice. 10. The Aharonov-Bohm Effect and Field Holonomies Aharonov and Bohm (1959) drew attention to…
Richard Healey and Henrique Gomes
Holism and Nonseparability in Physics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Quantum Approaches to Consciousness
undivided and psychophysically neutral implicate, enfolded order. This order is called holomovement because it…Hiley 1993; Hiley 2001), referring to an implicate order which unfolds into the different explicate domains…and Hiley’s approach, the notions of implicate and explicate order mirror the distinction between ontic…
Harald Atmanspacher
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-consciousness/
The Role of Decoherence in Quantum Mechanics
in de Broglie–Bohm theory, because the wave guides the particles by way of a first-order equation, while…mainstream foundational approaches such as Everett, Bohm and GRW, traditional approaches such as those by…attempts to solve the measurement problem, such as Bohm, Everett or GRW; or one that attempts to dissolve…
Guido Bacciagaluppi
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-decoherence/
Action at a Distance in Quantum Mechanics
5.3 No-collapse theories 5.3.1 Bohm’s theory In 1952, David Bohm proposed a deterministic, ‘hidden…between distant events. A well-known example is David Bohm’s (1951) version of the famous thought experiment…the particles and the order of the measurements. Here is why. In the minimal Bohm theory, the spin singlet…
Joseph Berkovitz
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-action-distance/
The Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Argument in Quantum Theory
difficulties of quantum theory became an issue. In 1951 David Bohm, a protégé of Robert Oppenheimer and then an …a close look at EPR in order to develop a response in the spirit of Bohr. Bohm showed how one could mirror…zero total angular momentum (Bohm 1951, Sections 22.15–22.18). In the Bohm experiment the atomic fragments…
Arthur Fine and Thomas A. Ryckman
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-epr/
Relational Quantum Mechanics
Mechanics is extensively discussed in Chapter 2.) Bohm, David, 1952, “A Suggested Interpretation of the Quantum… Hidden variables (Bohm): Hidden variable theories, of which Bohm theory (Bohm 1952) is the best available…quantum mechanics. The similarity between RQM and Bohm theory is in the realistic interpretation of some…
Federico Laudisa and Carlo Rovelli
It’s about consciousness, not reality. Also rather speculative. Interesting, but it doesn’t describe stuff.
Sorry for the late edit. Keep reading!
A summing up of many ideas, google translated
In ancient times, the hypothesis of extra-terrestrial life was put forward in Greece, as early as 600 BC. AD
In the context of a universe centered on the earth, until the Copernican revolution, the question could not be asked.
Until the 19th century, man was too self-centered, too much of himself as the sole master of creation, to seriously think that there could be other intelligent creatures.
Advances in astronomy and astrophysics have shown that there could be around 300 million and up to 500 million habitable planets in the galaxy. Out of a total of 6 billion. Even if not all of them actually support life, the probability that some do is high.
But if the galaxy contains a significant number of intelligent species, why haven’t we found a trace of them? This is the Fermi paradox.
Several possible explanations, including:
-Even though many planets are home to life, intelligent life is more complicated.
-life is one thing, intelligence is another and few planets are home to intelligent life.
-strangeness: these races may have totally different reasoning from ours, be neither interested in space travel, nor in contact with other intelligent species, or by existing and manifesting themselves in such a way that we cannot perceive them.
impossibility of encounter: the rarity of intelligent races and the distances are such that the probability of an encounter is low, travel at a speed greater than that of light is impossible. We know that there are probably habitable planets around twenty light years away. Sending enough people to create a viable colony no matter what is not easy. The journey would take centuries, given the technological means available, and it would be a journey of no return, with a strong dose of the unknown.
the zoo or asylum hypothesis: humans are dangerous madmen and should be avoided.
Some claim that in fact our planet has already been visited by extra-terrestrials. The evidence is considered unconvincing.
If by other aliens visiting 50,000y ago you mean what Erich von Daniken proposed with Chariots of the Gods I don’t think anyone should dismiss it out of hand. Truth is stranger than fiction.
With all our computer tech I’m surprised no one’s been able to get some way to solving the Drake Equation
How’s that?
There’s very little tangible evidence for establishing the parameters of many of those factors, so how can we hope for any solution?
R* x FP x Ne x FL x FI x FC x L = the number of intelligent aliens currently living in the Milky Way
The Drake Equation is calculated by multiplying the following:
R* - stars made in the Milky Way galaxy in one year,
Fp - the fraction of stars that have planets,
Ne - the fraction of those planets where life can exist,
FL - the fraction of those planets where life does exist,
FI - the fraction of those planets where intelligent life exists,
FC - the fraction of those intelligent aliens who develop technology that is able to communicate outside of their own planet,
L - number of years an intelligent, communicating civilization lasts.
Isn’t the Drake Equation more like a philosophical problem, than a scientific one?
I like this guy’s take on it, plus besides being way smarter, he’s way more interesting to listen to than I would be. Give it a gander.
