War Drums in the Ukraine

Politics and Social Issues
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I appreciate your skepticism, but the problem is even worse than you portray at this time.
We have proof that freedom of speech as a leg for Americans to stand on has been shattered by the government. Via media accountability we can and do falsify what would appear to be verified and checked, as you say; to be fraud. What we witness is that some merely fall for repetition, as if it is a gold standard, but no, it is merely a paper currency. Truth is felt in different ways, and I’m afraid that we are caught with sources from afar, and yet this is as it always has been. It is just that now we can prove they are lying, or at least we have evidence of such lies. Really it is more obvious than this. It is more futile than this. We are witnessing a sort of brainwash effect that has galvanized aluminum; no doubt a dubious concoction when used at sea. The minds that have been so contorted will rot out from the inside; maintaining a shell of their former selves; only to crumple as their interiors were turned to dust…

As I understand it some operators are on a need to know basis, and are stuck there not actually allowed to follow links to information sources who will essentially rot their insides. This seems to be the quality of the discussion here. It rings hollow.

From Poland intervenes after Ukrainian ambassador denies wartime massacre of Poles and Jews | Notes From Poland :slight_smile:

Jung asked Melnyk how a figure resposible for mass murder could be treated as a hero today in Ukraine. The ambassador answered by claiming that “Bandera was not a mass murderer of Jews and Poles”. He said that such claims are part of a “Russian narrative”.

Jung then quoted a propaganda leaflet signed by Bandera calling for Russians, Poles, Hungarian and Jews to be “wiped out”. Melnyk responded that he “will not distance myself from it. That’s my decision [even if] you may not understand it”.

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"AMERICA HAS BECOME WHAT THE SOVIET UNION WAS!

You’d do much better with a bit less hysteria, and hyperbole.

If you’re trying to convince me America was like this, that would make me start to think you’re clueless, or simply playing disingenuous semantics and trying to trick me.

Our landlady, neighbor and friend and a newly minted citizen of the United States, is a Kazakhstan-Russian, living in Kazakhstan until about a decade ago.
From her, I do believe that Russia isn’t all bad, and that Putin was doing a surprisingly good job of running his government and taking care of basic citizen needs, health care system, that would put us to shame, even if not near as advanced as ours.

But that doesn’t make us the same, for starters simply the mindset of people raised in a system that keeps them under the thumb of the government at all times, creates a way different populous and attitudes, than where the vast majority of people are free to think and move and work where they want. Not everyone, of course the down trodden and poor and helpless victim are a staple of every civilization, so we’re back to a human nature question. Why do all humans seem to have this seed of monster inside?

Ironically, recently in catching up on the work of Dr. David Sloan Wilson explains Evolution’s relevance to our lives. Turns out the answers are in evolution.

https://study.com/academy/lesson/life-in-the-ussr-under-stalin-nationalities-culture.html

Then came the trump to fill the insecure Putin’s head with dreams of being the new Caesar.

Admittedly American is crashing, as are the rest of our globes big governments, especially that Russia with that leader that turned insane on us, (as is the fact that this bio-sphere we depend upon for everything (but that’s a different story, and most don’t seems to care enough to want to discuss it or do anything about it, although sadly we’ve pretty much squander all the runway we had available back in the '70s, '80s, when science and honest thinking people finally started to fully understand the magnitude of the situation we were creating {if not every detail - we knew enough} for ourselves and all our children and the entire world in general.)

But if the best you can come up with is Kindergarten over-simplifications, dishonest equivalence, and grossly biased announcer/interviewers it isn’t going to cut it.

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Both of these two are wrong in different ways at different times. Both make some points. Buckley keeps switching countries and starting points. Chomsky plays around with motives. On balance I prefer Chomsky but this is early news entertainment, resolutions are not the goal.

I would rather eliminate the political section at CFI. But, not my call.

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I find it interesting that you’ve essentially conceded the Nazi problem by diverging away from that rebuttal and now focusing on Russia and its problems. Russia is a huge country and has a multi-ethnic population; including Muslims as I understand it. They even still have indigenous people there, and their country has been around far longer than the U.$. Are we proud of how we treated the indigenous people here? How we treat indigenous people around the world? The lens of U.$. power focuses on their resources and the acquisition of such in the name of profit. Apparently there is this lens on Ukraine, and as to who is going to walk away with what from backroom dealing there… as the population is decimated more and more options are opening up… with glee we’ll supply weapons to the last Ukranian standing… and if he is a Nazi, well, why didn’t he die long ago at the front line? Really, the charge must be lead. Send in the mercs, and a few advisorial jerks, and get the job done over there. Somebody needs the land, and though everything isn’t quite going as planned, at least Europe hasn’t gone berserk… yet…

Elections in Poland… postponed.
Election in Ukraine… postponed.
Who will be next on this list?
Germany is an easy guess.

I am a bit worried in that each time we discuss Nazis in Ukraine we normalize the subject. This historian feels like that. He has very little judgement, but possibly this makes his interview worthy. I am sorry it is so long. There is an index in the show notes, but none of it is terse. The simple answer that it is complicated will not do even though it is true.

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So what does that picture prove? Ukraine is a NAZI country?

While that picture is cause for concern, the very existence of these political parties speaks not of a national movement but of democratic freedom, where all philosophies are tolerated if they are practised in a lawful manner.

Is the US a NAZI country?
Here is a picture of American NAZIs marching after applying for and obtaining permits.
image

Only in dictatorships are opposing parties outlawed. In a country that prides itself on “freedom of speech”, all people have the right to express their beliefs.

But because a fringe party is marching and making speeches, that doesn’t mean that country is ruled by these fringe groups.

Question; is Volodymyr Zelenskyy a NAZI?

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Volodymyr Zelenskyy

President of Ukraine

Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy is a Ukrainian politician and former comedian and actor who is the sixth and current president of Ukraine since 2019. Born to a Ukrainian Jewish family, Zelenskyy grew up as a native Russian speaker in Kryvyi Rih, a major city of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast in central Ukraine. Wikipedia

A Jewish NAZI? IMO, that is an imaginary reach too far.

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I stopped reading after this sentence. “diverging away” may not mean what you think it means. A more likely interpretation might be that you brought up the “Nazi problem” to “diverge away” from something else, and we know that there is no evidence in the world that would change your mind. Despite the mountain of it.

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Here is one of their big lies that you’ve linked to:
" Posted on: 2023-06-05 - Global Affairs Canada

The facts:

  • It was Russia’s decision to invade Ukraine.
  • Russia dismissed all of NATO’s efforts to discuss respective security concerns to prevent a war.
  • Ukraine is exercising its UN-recognized right to self-defence.
  • Russia continues to aggressively violate its neighbours’ territorial integrity and independence.
  • Countries like Finland and Sweden ask to join NATO because it is a defensive alliance whose purpose is to protect its member states.

Russia’s false claim:

  • The Kremlin claims that NATO is an aggressive bloc “aiming to defeat Russia on the battlefield."

Your own article is proving its alter-ego. This is very Maddowesque. It’s like it really matters how you say it, and you’d better look out for the word ‘could’ just once to defeat the whole thing. No doubt those of you who are attempting to hold up the MSM deep state side of things are learning this first hand. You bite on a strong title, only to realize that it was a baited hook the whole time.

Still, it is quite a compilation; eight pages at this point; chock full of these tidbits. It’s actually interesting what doesn’t show up there. They even have a little local search bar.

‘Pipeline’ yields zero results… now aren’t those Russians still lying about blowing up their own pipeline?

‘Nazi’ yields zero results. Hmmm… I have heard that there are Nazis in Russia, too, you know. In fact, when they called for deNazification of Ukraine the West peppered them with the term. People here seem happy to dismiss this as a real issue. In hindsight your own complicity will turn you around from that bent over position that the deep state has you in. The darkness that I see evolving is not over there. It is here. As America crashes should we be concerned? Yes, I am very concerned. I am as well concerned about the level of fiction by which we operate. In a sense, as long as farmers can produce enough food to feed us then all else is optional. We could be doing so much better, but cutthroat capitalism is our tongue.

You’ve accused Larry Johnson of kindergarten over-simplifications as I understand it. Impressive.
You all, and I guess you all are moderators here, are fully immersed in the mainstream bubble.
I have at least exposed you to some of the exterior of that bubble.
Of course I can understand that it does not feel comfortable.
I cannot prove anything to you here, but I have shown you a way to another lens.
I don’t see how you can’t see your way, so it’s the blind leading the blind…
Use your nose.

I have no doubt that grain is a political football now. India halted rice exports, too.
Putin says the West has been lying about Ukraine’s grain production; that it’s mostly Russian grain exports. That’s news to me. I heard what I thought were credible sources claiming Ukraine to be the bread basket of Europe. Sometime this winter I suppose, while people are choosing how high to put their thermostat versus spend a hundred Euros for a five pound bag of flour, well: they’ll choose the flour. Market rates work naturally, but that doesn’t make me a capitalist. As to who is upsetting the tables…

In Godzilla Wee Trust. U.$.A! FAFA

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Truest thing you’ve said

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Doesn’t this all really explain how Ukraine has come to be such a corrupt place? For pay, people will do quite a lot. And of course the integrity of those people as expletives of the human race is fully established. This poor country has been hounded since when? Sandwiched between Europe and Russia, it is a piece of meat in the sandwich that Godzilla cannot resist. Hmmm… looks like the Russians have baited their side of the bread with mayonaise and mustard. Now NATO, not wanting to be outdone, has gotten fresh tomatoes and lettuce onto their side. Godzilla, smelling from afar, is hungry… will he just snatch the meat out, and cast aside the bread pieces? No, I’m afraid opportunity is smelt as well, and if he can just grip those sides of bread and get a bite of the whole thing, then all will be well…

If I were Godzilla, and in some regards I am at least a part of Godzilla, I’d be wary of those Russians. They might have slid some Russian dressing into that sandwich. You are what you eat…

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[quote=“timbandtech, post:654, topic:7850”]
CIA: Undermining and Nazifying Ukraine Since 1953, by Wayne Madsen

CIA: Undermining and Nazifying Ukraine Since 1953, by Wayne Madsen

The recent declassification of over 3800 documents by the Central Intelligence Agency provides detailed proof that since 1953 the CIA operated two major programs intent on not only destabilizing Ukraine but Nazifying it with followers of the World…

Let’s see about Ukrainian NAZIs

Hugely popular, despite controversial image

Bandera was not a “Nazi,” but a “Ukrainian ultranationalist,” Umland argued, saying Ukrainian nationalism at the time was “not a copy of Nazism.” Rossolinski-Liebe takes a different view, saying Bandera can be called “a radical nationalist, a fascist.”

But not a NAZI.

The German-Polish historian disagrees with Ukrainian colleagues who say Bandera’s supporters fought Nazis just as much as they fought Soviets. “The USSR was the OUN’s most important enemy,” said Rossolinski-Liebe. He pointed out that the Soviet People’s Commissariat for Internal Affairs waged a brutal battle against Ukrainian nationalists — about 150,000 people were killed and more than 200,000 deported.
more …
Stepan Bandera: Hero or Nazi collaborator? – DW – 05/22/2022

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I must voice my agreement with this analysis. Not quite sure where ‘worth the candle’ comes from, but maybe its a matter of whether you can or should keep the lights on at night?

As the Russians will be willing to leave Western Ukraine out of its grasp… only partially so. The Nazi elements will be exposed and will be exposed fully in time. The means of getting the word out here… this is obviously a part of the information war that is to come still. That the West has managed to bottle this up for those who wear their blinders facing East, well; will they ever see straight again? The vehemence that has been charged by lies going back to Russiagate, and then as that is the rekindling of the cold war energy, harkening back to the cold war of old, it leaves the moderner wondering if all that was garbage too? This all is winding up for a major backfire; as in a very destructive event. At least it is apparent as I try to step away from this and witness the level of hostility of those who are engaging so heavily with a propaganda machine that they will not turn back; I am looking at trouble. Just think how the Europeans are feeling. This is so much more on their doorstep, whereas we are witnessing it from afar. Please, people: seek the truth. At this time there is great cause to doubt. When you catch a lie, stay with it a while, and ask yourself whether credibility is lost there? Yes, it is. No matter how many are telling you the same lie over and over and over again, this is unfortunately a proof of just how corrupt our system has become. There will be people standing up to it. They will appear small relative to the facade. This is as it should be. To seek the truth is to look away from the facade, as grand as it may be built, as a fake…

This link discusses a CIA funded publication Suchasnist which is a publication that builds the Ukranian nationalist movement.
So you see we’ve been developing the current situation for many decades. These documents incidentally are released under the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act:

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I love this part of this DW piece: " Far-Right Connotations: Umland said Azov had drawn early attention by using the the Nazi Wolfsangel symbol as its emblem. “The Wolfsangel has far-right connotations, it is a pagan symbol that the SS also used,” said Umland. “But it is not considered a fascist symbol by the population in Ukraine.” The Azov Regiment wants the symbol from the Nazi era to be understood as stylized versions of the letters N and I, standing for “national idea.” "

Amazing. Did you ever learn to read between the lines write4u?
The story as well made the independent journalist crowd partly because that granny with the gun was being trained by a commando with that wolfsangel on his arm and this video made its way onto national media here in the U.$; something the DW piece has cropped out of this entire piece even while they discuss it in writing.

"Formed in 2014, the group’s logo features a Wolfsangel, one of the original symbols used by the Nazi 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich in WWII. Members of the group deny its association with Nazism and claim the symbol is actually an abbreviation in Ukrainian for National Idea. However, its original commander Andriy Biletsky — who ran the openly anti-semitic Patriot of Ukraine organisation that was Azov’s precursor — is now the leader of the far-right ultranationalist National Corps party. In 2010, he said Ukraine’s mission was to ‘lead the white races of the world in a final crusade … against Semite-led Untermenschen [subhumans]’. " - 'Babushka battalion' training in Ukraine was organised by neo-NAZIS | Daily Mail Online

I try not to focus on an icon on somebody’s arm too much. Here though, in the extended context of this discussion it may be just enough to ooch some who were sucked in by deep propaganda to find their way out. It’s not that we who see through are breathing any easier. We all breath the same air, yeah?
It’s beyond stuffy. If feels threatening and chilling. The sort of darkness and depravity that would pull a cover over people’s eyes this badly; surely this cover is not intended to let any air in. As I poke a hole in it that is not just for me; it is for you, too.

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Yes, but every conspiracy theorist reads between the lines, or interprets the imaginary lines as proof of something bad.
And I stipulated that there are NAZIs in the US. The question is if they run anything other than a paramilitary gang.

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Wow. This is the first authentic bit of analysis I believe that I have read from you. Congratulations.
Yes, I would think that the entire nation ought to be concerned, especially given what is happening in Ukraine right now. Instead though we are fed enough propaganda to put on some serious weight, yeah?

Do you concede that the U.$. has formally helped to build the Nazi movement in Ukraine?
Does this then make Voltaire a new and reputable source in your readings?
What then of the other sources who fail to address these issues?
Are lies of omission really alright with you?
Obviously the truth is so deeply masked that if you were to stand behind lies of omission you’d be ready to omit the human race. We are teetering closer and closer to it.
Already we see dirty tricks taking place.
As to what sort of dirty tricks our own country has up its sleeve…
And who is in charge of Ack’ing them before they run…
Darkness could fall upon us at any time.
Pretty sure I’m in the fallout zone for Boston.
Russkies, if you are reading, please spare one non-complicit sole…

The fraud stories that the American people have been drinking in since 2016 are immensely wrong.
As to what happens to that popultion in the future: we all are going to have to live with them.
They are going to be miserable soles in the world that is to come.
Really, to realize all the personal relations that have been fried along the way only to realize that the offenses were a fraud… and do you think Ukranians aren’t knowledgeable somehow? Europeans, too? The level of resentment that the U.$. is building up around the world… what, so we can the fight over there instead of over here? No. They are guaranteeing that there is going to be quite a fight right here on our soil. It is all set to go off now. They’ve got tensions built every which way, and the fully programmable sheeple are well established. The only hope we have is of getting the wool pulled away from their eyes.
Yet, as their pelts become plastered in crap from the deep state the possibility dwindles. The sort of shearing that is needed on this animal farm… hmmm… maybe it’ll be like this:

The grand reform finally takes place. All found guilty will have half their head shaven weekly. The reformers have to choose which half. It could be the left half, or the right half. Possibly it could even be the rear half or the front half for those who play both sides. I would think the mainstream media would get the front half shave, and the deep state and its operatives would get the rear half shave, which is probably the most stylish.

These skin heads, as they will be called, can have their subgroup intact. As to who gets to keep their hair: that is a matter of proving your own non-complicity. I’ve got mine pretty well covered now. Thank you.
As to the difference between propagandizer and propagandized: that is a blur, you see? So already arguably the Nazis have been in the deep seat for some time kindling their position and international prowess. Humans are adaptive in many ways.

Nationalism: there is a concept to behold. Exceptional? U$? Oh, we’re exceptional alright.
Just study the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act and its offspring.

Yet a careful read exposes that we aren’t even getting the full picture:

"Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act - Establishes the Nazi War Criminal Records Interagency Working Group to locate, identify, inventory, recommend for declassification, and make available to the public at the National Archives and Records Administration, all classified Nazi war criminal records of the United States. Requires that: (1) Group members include the Director of the Holocaust Museum, the Historian of the Department of State, and the Archivist of the United States; and (2) the Group submit a report to the Congress describing all such records, their disposition, and the Interagency Group’s activities. Authorizes appropriations.

Requires such records to be released in their entirety, except that an agency head may exempt from release specific information that would compromise privacy, national security, or U.S. foreign policy, as specified. States that in applying the exemptions there shall be a presumption that the public interest in the release of Nazi war criminal records will be served by disclosure and release of the records. Permits assertion of such exemption only when the agency head determines that disclosure and release would be harmful to a specific interest identified. Requires such a determination to be promptly reported to the appropriate congressional committees, including the Senate Committee on the Judiciary and the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight. Subjects such exemptions to the same standard of review that applies to records withheld under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) for matters that are specifically authorized by an executive order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy. Provides an additional exception from disclosure for records: (1) related to or supporting any investigation, inquiry, or prosecution by the Office of Special Investigations of the Department of Justice; or (2) solely in the possession or control of that office.

Amends the National Security Act of 1947 to provide that the exemption from public disclosure authorized under such Act for operational files of the Central Intelligence Agency shall not apply to information regarding any operational file, or portion of any operational file that constitutes a Nazi war criminal record."

and this is just the summary. In other words Suchasnist was already exposed as American propaganda, and it says as much in the reports on it. Now, as I had mentioned reading between the lines, and you had gone on about conspiracy theorists, isn’t there a bit more going on here with regard to this exemption?
One day we may get the grand leak. Based on the present government behavior I have to believe that there are numerous people ready to attempt it. In the media likewise the moves of Tucker Carlson to go independent are going to have an echo. At some point the indie journalist movement will be compromised, and I’ve considered Clayton Morris and his heady ways to be a candidate, but I don’t really have proof.

Democratic party insiders and their followers can point their fingers at the other side of the isle, and likely validly yell ‘Nazi!’ at a few individuals. And isn’t that just what you did to Russia only recently, too? Hmmm… maybe I’ll just have a think about that… something about the term ‘neo’ maybe…

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I am having trouble here distinguishing between the propagandized and the propagandist. It’s all a bit of a blur now. If I am correct would this place you in the camp of a Nazi sympathizer? Isn’t this quite close to being a holocaust denier? The holocaust was not limited to German borders. Indeed, this is exactly the complexity of the situation in Ukraine, and even in present Ukraine. The guilt of the U.$. actions of uplifting Nazis in Ukraine in order to do harm to the Soviet Union is exactly what we witness now against Russia. We’ve seen the U.$. as well supply ISIS so long as it is fighting Syrians. These are not innocent methods. Complicity with these methods is not a righteous position to hold. I do attempt here to hold you accountable as individuals for your belief system, though that belief system has been passed to you by a power structure. The fact that you would care to pass that belief system on further here is the matter in dispute, whereby I ridicule with the language of propagandist or propagandized? The difference is very little. To settle this dispute I do think the one question of whether Bandera was a Nazi is pretty good. Still, that is in the past, though the connection to the present is obvious for any who care to research it.

Really, I’d like to develop such a litmus test here. Even if the test is not decisive it acts as quite a metric. So I must ask you all a simply yes/no on whether Bandera was a Nazi? Of course I mean this in terms of did he believe in ethnic cleansing? genocide?

We are in danger now of a new form of this, and yet the connections are actually so tight here that but for the denial in the media, which then gets drunk up by the people, in a facade that is too easily torn; really, I will answer: yes: Bandera was a Nazi; an ethnic cleanser. And by extension the Azov batallion as Banderists have their target: Russians. The new Jews are the Russians. Who is eliminating their culture now? How close are we to World War Three? People: the seriousness of this issue is authentic. The guilt of the public is done by propaganda. We can prove it, but you must do your own research. The fact that this is an en masse effect is known and understood, and the possibility of its existence is shunned by so many here who are locally in power that I am almost ashamed and feel the need to move on and confront this site from its exterior. It is totally unacceptable what is happening in America and around the rest of the Western alliance. Of course this is as the media portrays it, and I am of the hope that many more like me see though it. Yet here there is just a dull thud.

https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/poland-and-ukraine-honour-victims-of-the-volhynia-massacre-80-years-on-39775

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[quote=“timbandtech, post:659, topic:7850”]
Wow. This is the first authentic bit of analysis I believe that I have read from you. Congratulations.
Well, you seem to have a very narrow-focused interest in “conspiracies”.
My interest lies more in the scientific side of life.

Yes, I would think that the entire nation ought to be concerned, especially given what is happening in Ukraine right now. Instead though we are fed enough propaganda to put on some serious weight, yeah?

Yes, The Russian propaganda machine is very busy distorting truth and the entire world should be concerned about Putin’s behavior. He is engaged in genocide and “crimes against humanity”. That is where my concern lies at the moment.

Do you concede that the U.$. has formally helped to build the Nazi movement in Ukraine?

No, and that includes all the conspiratorial questions on that “weighty” list.

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I don’t care enough to do the research. What am I going to do with that information? Should I call a general and tell him what I’ve discovered.

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lausten: “I don’t care enough to do the research. What am I going to do with that information? Should I call a general and tell him what I’ve discovered.”

I find this to be an inauthentic statement. Since you asked, though, I’ll give you an authentic answer:
The Azov battalion operates in Ukraine with this man Bandera as their inspiration. As I have documented here, our CIA have been developing these sentiments since the 1970’s by the documents that I turned up on cia.gov, and back to 1953 according to other sources. Of course the most atrocious details here we do not have access to. Still, as our government is complicit with the elevation of a genocidal mindset in Ukraine, then so too are the citizens of our supposed democracy. Here we are having such a discussion, and you seem to be participating. Now, I think the logical ties are sufficiently laid out here: If you don’t recognize a genocidal Nazi as a genocidal Nazi, and instead deny any such influence as you send weaponry into that country, which your nation recently developed a coup in, empowering gonocidal Nazis; this chain of reasoning really is what we are after. Upon getting such a sense of what is actually happening then breaking through the propaganda becomes possible. Enough have done it already and are sharing their analysis. Here though it seems that such analysis falls on deaf ears. What? Huh?

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It’s not. You’re asking me to accept you as a sources, and your references that I’ve checked out and found wanting. Even if you are right though, the question is the same. What do i do about this?

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It amazes me how easy it is to refute the party line, and by that I guess I mean the deep state line, which is what comes out of the the mouths of both parties, the mainstream media, and most of the moderators present here…

" The ethnic cleansing was a Ukrainian attempt to prevent the post-war Polish state from asserting its sovereignty over Ukrainian-majority areas that had been part of the pre-war Polish state.[8][9][1] The decision to force the Polish population to leave the areas considered by the Banderite faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B) to be Ukrainian took place at a meeting of military referents in the autumn of 1942, and it was planned to liquidate the leaders of the Polish community and those who would resist.[10] Local UPA commanders in Volhynia, joining the armed uprising against the Germans, began attacking the Polish population, carrying out massacres in many villages.[11] Encountering resistance, UPA commander in Volhynia Dmytro Klyachkivsky “Klym Savur” issued an order in June 1943 for the “general physical liquidation of the entire Polish population”.[12] The largest wave of attacks took place in July and August 1943, the assaults in Volhynia continued until the spring of 1944, when the Red Army arrived in Volhynia and the Polish underground, which had hitherto organised self-defences, formed the 27th AK Infantry Division.[13] Approximately 50,000–60,000 Poles died as a result of the genocide in Volhynia, while up to 2,000–3,000 Ukrainians died as a result of Polish retaliatory actions.[14]"

Truth To Power! FAFA!
In Godzilla Wee Trust!