War Drums in the Ukraine

Politics and Social Issues
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First and foremost, I don’t like defending my country regarding its track record of wars and military actions. We should cut our military by at least half, just a start, we should stop selling arms all over. I could go on. What I would rather discuss is; there is evil in the world and sometimes something has to be done, the question is, “what?” I don’t think there are governments that are “good” in any simple sense, they all have or have done bad things.

So, yes, there were negotiations with those countries, that’s an easy one to look up, and yes, there are lots of problems with how those talks went.

Vietnam, a different era, pretty much everyone who was involved is dead. A big mess, lots of lies, all documented. Also, many lessons learned.

Iraq invaded Kuwait. Before that we were supplying weapons to them to fight Iran, we should have stayed out of that. And don’t forget the Kurds.

Yugoslavia was committing genocide.

Libya, I’m not as up on their history, but Gaddafi was an evil dictator. His own people started the coup. What don’t you like about the US involvement?

Afghanistan, what a mess. “Charlie Wilson’s War” is a good overview of that. We helped them defeat Russia, which is kind of cool, but then we left them on their own to rebuild. The war on terrorism is basically 1984 crap. George W Bush should be prosecuted for war crimes.

Ukraine, another invasion from Russia. I know there is history before that, but that’s my theme; the world has evil, you try to work with it without starting world wars, but there are lines that get crossed. If you don’t establish what those lines are, then anyone can claim sovereignty, or claim harm, and start moving the tanks. That’s what the WTO and UN are about, granted also, extremely flawed organizations, but they are better than the world of the 19th century and before.

This guy does some amazing work on presenting history. He did a multi part cast on WWI, and how we went from the days of horses and sabres to where we are now:

Hardcore History 51 – Blueprint for Armageddon II (dancarlin.com)

I notice that you started with Vietnam in your list. Korea was before that, and before that was WWII. Should we have fought Hitler? Japan?

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I hope after you read this you will never repeat the words you have just written to another

Vietnam
There was supposed to free national elections to be held on 26 July 1956 which the US made sure it never occurred as there was little doubt that the communist Ho Chi Minh would win. The fabricated Gulf of tonkin incident ensured a unprovoked invasion. There was no diplomacy. War was choosen at the expense of peace with no UN mandate and only supported by puppet Australia

Iraq

Iraq was the ally to the USa in their war with iran. It was the US and European chemical companies that helped supply saddam with weapons , toxins and intelligence when they poisoned the iranians. Guif war 1 followed iraqs invasion of Kuwait after iraq discovered Kuwait was stealing its oil through horizontal drilling . There was no diplomatic effort by the US to reolve this as US diplomat April Catherine Glaspie indicated to saddam that US would not get involved if kuwait was invaded .

The US bypassed the UN and international to lauch a criminal war of aggression against iraq in 2003

Afganistan

The taliban offered the usa to hand over bin laden but the US rejected this. There was no negotiation

“They must have not heard: There’s no negotiations,” Bush told reporters

Jugoslavia

The USA again bypassed the UN and bombed a European sovereign nation with
NATO bombs. There was no genocide but there was bloodshed in serbs fighting with the KLA ( a USA designated terrorist organisation) and the USA demand that jugoslavia succeed every inch of its land to nato troops to prevent its bombing was never going to be acceptable.
See michael parenti excellent synopsis on this war crime

Libyia

Hillary - we came we saw he died. Again the USA bypassed the UN and used NATO to attack and invade a sovereign nation on the humanitarian pretext called right to protect (R2P) also known as regime change by claiming the lie that gaddafi was just about to murder 50,000 of his own people and had given his soldiers viagra to rape all the women. Diplomacy was the in the tool kit for this one when the pretext for war was a lie

Syria

uSA again tried to use R2P as cover for regime change. No UN mandate and still occupying syrian oilfields.

Ukraine

Russia had some lines it did not want NATO and ukraine to cross. It tried to discuss this with the USA but talks were either rejected or ignored by the USA.

Thats your efforts in striving for peace

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write4u has a hidden agenda. It is simply to bury the truth.
This is his duty, and possibly paid duty.
Yes, corruption can come here on this site, and it is but by the mere twist of an arm one day at a cafe that this might occur. Is it time to call in the jackals? Certainly we are engaged in an information war here.

The side of the liars can be exposed. This we must hold up, and repeatedly too. Gandhi must be invoked. Satyagraha has to be our mantra.

All here is words, and to disregard this forum as such could be valid, but then under that belief that person would not be participating here. Such lame positions as ‘so, what are you doing about it’ ,or some such, as a means of derogatory measure merely expose the participant as weak. Seeing a post such as “Oh I am not complaining about the thread. I am complaining about you.” from a supposed moderator is made to disable this site. The deterioration in the quality of discussion emplaced here by moderators is established.

Possibly this:
“And this incidental post is in response to another post accusing the US for deliberately starving Iraqi people without some kind of provocation. That is clearly misleading if not outright lying.”
is a return to content, but already enough links have been shared, and the insertion of ‘without some kind of provocation’ is entirely the strawman fluffing up his own elbow. As to where Saddam Hussein got his chemical weapons; now there is some inconvenient truth. But the entire vector is OT as far as Ukraine goes, other than as a reference to another failed foreign policy move by what Mearsheimer calls ‘Godzilla’.

In Godzilla Wee Trust. FAFA. U$A!

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There is really no other way to take this other than a joke. Some member found a CFI contact once, and went over our heads. I have no compliant about that. If you then extend your theory to include the entire organization, well, that would be funny.

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Almost everything you said is factual. Facts that I know. It also leaves out facts.

I did my research

https://www.vietnamwar50th.com/1968_tet_and_shifting_views/North-Vietnam-and-the-United-States-Begin-Peace-Talks/#:~:text=May%2010%2C%201968&text=American%20and%20North%20Vietnamese%20representatives,to%20hold%20talks%20until%201973.

https://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/other/bluebook/1991/1991-2-1.htm

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Americans had instructed the Bosnian Muslims to withdraw their Lisbon Agreement (Carrington–Cutileiro peace plan). On 28 March 1992, Izetbegović withdrew his signature and declared his opposition to any type of division of Bosnia, after meeting with then US ambassador to Yugoslavia, Warren Zimmermann, in Sarajevo.

What was said and by whom remains unclear. Zimmerman denies that he told Izetbegovic that if he withdrew his signature, the United States would grant recognition to Bosnia as an independent state. What is indisputable is that Izetbegovic, that same day, withdrew his signature and renounced the agreement.

After 3 years of war and death it ended with dayton accords showing near identical map s to the lisbon agreement of serb croatia and bosnian regions

In 1968 , south viet withdrew from peace talk upon instruction from nixon camp

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Write 4u is a die hard partizan of the Democratic party and must at all costs protect it from any criticism whether or not they are warranted, whether or not they are directly attributed or perceived.

He brings this baggage with him to the table when he responds to posts not of his liking

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It’s hard to tell what debate you are trying to have, but I’ll quote this post of yours:

Do have any objective evidence that the US always prefers peaceful settlements rather than just your personal belief?

There are serious definition problems here. What is the “US”? Not just the geography and boundaries, because those can’t “prefer” anything. Do you mean the entire population, but they argue and disagree. Do you mean only voters? Just people who hold office? But that keeps changing. What do you accept as evidence? The questions just go on.

We have pointed out rule 3(f) many times, but you keep violating it. Others sometimes skirt up against this rule and get warned and then they stop. You do it constantly. This has nothing to do with your opinions on politics. So, I’m silencing you, at least a couple weeks, maybe more, not sure. The moderators will discuss that.

I’m working on a response to the peace agreements comments. You’ll have time to read it while you are waiting to get reinstated.

Oh, and what a surprise, you cut and pasted without a citation. Another violation. I can look things up and read them myself. I changed my mind, I’m not going to continue a discussion with you. We want members who express their own thoughts and do it without denigrating others.

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[quote=“sunnyjim, post:632, topic:7850, full:true”]
Write 4u is a die hard partizan of the Democratic party and must at all costs protect it from any criticism whether or not they are warranted, whether or not they are directly attributed or perceived.

Aahh, managed to find a conspiracy on CFI, how quaint.

First, if I happen to overstep my granted responsibilities as moderator, I apologize.
I try to encourage a positive humanitarian approach to life and living.

Yes, I am a die-hard believer in the US Constitution and Democratic rule, as compared to the unconscionable Republican current flirting with Dictatorship and Naziism.

LOOK AT THEIR AGENDA!
Any party that wants a criminal for president is not worthy of my support.

And while complaining and whining about how badly the US has acted in the past , you refuse to look at what good the US has done overall in comparison to the rest of the world.

For a country of 300 000 000 people, US democracy has done a remarkable job of creating a society that has representation from every race and almost every country on earth.

What you are doing is one-sided and suggests that fundamentally you are not a friend of the US. I don’t see you suggest anything to “cure” these mistakes.

He brings this baggage with him to the table when he responds to posts not of his liking

And what is it you are bringing to the table? All I see is baggage. When are you going to say something positive about our history?
You make it sound as if the US is an example of bad government???

Your incessant complaints about US behavior only serve to advance the possibility of unwittingly helping install leadership that is 10 x worse than any Democratic alternative.

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And who share references when they quote from someone else’s work

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This totally fits the uniparty model. Right now we are flirting with literal Nazis in Ukraine. Our democracy is dubious at best, and the propaganda state is so saturated in poor quality lies that everybody is turning away. Simple garage made independent journalists are turning out way better content than huge corporate media organizations why? It is because they are compromised.

As Russiagate dissipates into the past it can act as a lens if we still expect that the truth will prevail in the end. Sadly though, it directly connects to the Ukraine war, and is the most damning aspect. I harken back again to Iraq… ahhh… now we are far enough back that virtually everyone here will own the mistake; own the lies; own the devastation; the starvation; the depleted uranium; and would you think that their democracy is hoping to be buds with ours? Think again. FAFA.

In time the Ukraine conflict will have its own lineup of detail like this which damns once again U.$. foreign policy. Leakers, whistleblowers, retirees who can’t live with themselves for the evil that they allowed to occur… hoping to free themselves of her… complicity was her name.

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https://rumble.com/v32nlpq--russias-counteroffensive-wpatrick-lancaster-my-full-interview-on-the-duran.html

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OK, who in Ukraine is a Nazi? Did you get a name?
And who’s propaganda state. Be specific.

As to the US, it is the Trump Republicans who are flirting with Nazies, not the current administration.

In what way are they compromised? Just because they are big. Or because they have a large Nazi readership as compared to a large well informed Independent readership.

And you do know that most garage-made independents do have an agenda and it isn’t truth but propaganda.
Russia has dozens of the garage “journalists”, spouting misinformation that for instance was responsible for the election of Donald Trump, a lifelong criminal, who made an effort to overthrow a fair and certified democratic election and is now facing multiple criminal indictments, proof that the US is adhering to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

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The truth is always “coming out” with the theorists. That’s not real journalism. If it’s the truth, how do you know? Evidence has to be “out”, verifiable, checked

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Oh, that’s precious.
It is a very important news item about something that hasn’t happened. Top notch reliable reporting of an event that hasn’t happened yet and is without supporting verification of any kind!

There is a trend afoot!.. :shushing_face:

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Like the Russians trying to take their country.
Although it does demonstrate how little you know about real NAZI and what they were about, but that’s beside the point isn’t it? Don’t need no real experience or knowledge to claim anything, yet expect to be taken seriously.

Yes, because of citizen apathy as much as than anything,
and the Republican Party would like to turn it into an authoritarian oligarchy - why do you have no problem with that. Why not try to hang on to what we have and improve a little.

I tried watching the video, then had to start skimming, about the only noteworthy thing I noticed was the Star Wars Storm Trooper Helmet, that about summed up what I could expect from this guy.

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https://www.google.com/search?q=Was+Bandera+a+nazi

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“America has become what the Soviet Union was” - Larry Johnson:

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What you toss up a name of someone who may have been a Nazi collaborator.

So you really really don’t know what the NAZI’s were actually all about, it’s just a hot word to toss around.