War Drums in the Ukraine

Politics and Social Issues
305

On that German Greens politician’s comments its shows the rampant anti-Slav racism never went away. It just hid for a few decades in the stuffed belly of European integrationism.

The actual mistake the west wants to correct is letting go of Russia to fight the Iraq war.The west (Bush, Cheney, Rove) were beyond stupid to do Iraq if they really wanted Russia’s stuff. You can’t play whack-a-mole with a whole planet.

Remember that in the 2001 - 2010 period (and even beyond) Russia was on-side with the Afghan war even to the extent of allowing US military supplies to flow through Russian territory.

But Russia was always merely a superpower in remission.

The west are beyond beyond stupid if they think they will get Russia’s stuff now. That chance is well-and-truly gone and no amount of hysterical, fanatical language will bring it back.

These are exactly the kinds of people who, when a stock surges, short it back down in order to enter on the buy side. Literally, I have seen it happen. They always miss what non-psychopaths can see by simple deduction based on observation.

In 2000, Russia set itself a 20 year timeframe to re-arm and rebuild. In 2014 they used diplomacy with all their might and kept their powder dry.

I remember checking the Wikipedia page for “Russian Navy” back in 2013-14-ish, when The Saker was saying that the US has a blue-water navy and Russia only a Green-water one. That wiki page said something like “Russia only has 4 warships and they all need many years in dock to refit”.

But it turned out Russia was a country masquerading as a gas station, to quote Orlov from a while back.

By 2020 full spectrum military strength was no longer really an issue.

That 20-year timeframe was inevitably skillfully done. You only had to look and read and follow events and understand the depth of Russian strategic thinking and quiet determination, in order to see it.

306

Is that your way of saying Russia / Putin is the rightful owner of Ukraine?

307

Otto, again, it’s Twitter. Twitter is not a reliable source.

308

Yes and 7% who oppose the war vocally are in jail

309

Western democracies, and international law aren’t geared toward conquest and taking other people’s stuff anymore. We like to get in there and put Starbucks, but that’s the same as takin resources.

I don’t think the results of this war confirm that. They have lost a lot. And I don’t see the rest of rest of the world accepting their claim on Ukraine, even if they get to where they are putting their people in government seats.

310

So they spent 20 years preparing to spend more than 6 months in war to take a small portion of another country?

I do think this war is telling of how well Russia has built up its military. Pretty much the whole world was resigned to expect a quick fall of Kiev in a few weeks. And here we are 6 months later.

311

Russia briefly fought NATO terrorists in Chechnya, then fought NATO-trained Georgian forces for a few days in August 2008. Russia then fought more NATO terrorists in Syria beginning in 2015 and are still engaged there, although major combat has ceased for some time. Russia since the 2014 Ukraine Coup has been engaged with NATO-trained Ukrainian forces.
As yet, NATO has lost all its engagements with Russia, regardless the type of forces or numbers employed. The current SMO shows beyond doubt that Russian military is superior in every aspect to NATO

NATO is now engaged in emptying its armories which will soon host spiders and nothing else. Excepting the Outlaw US Empire, all NATO nations are experiencing an energy crisis that makes them incapable of manufacturing arms to replenish what they’ve given to Ukraine. Soon, most of NATO will be naked. And given Russia’s performance, what NATO member is going to want to go to war against Russia aside from the Outlaw US Empire, whose populace most certainly doesn’t?

If this were Chess, Russia’s opponent would have conceded long ago; if poker, would have folded; etc.

Russia issued proposals for new defense agreements last December that have yet to be genuinely answered through diplomatic channels. Are there any Realists within NATO capable of seeing the only solution or are they all extinct? The only solution is as follows for those who can’t read the tea leaves:

NATO: We give. Tell us your terms.

Russia: Disband, rescind all sanctions, and we’ll write another Collective Security Treaty like the four you broke while restoring energy deliveries and resuming the status quo ante. Or something along those lines.

312

I thought that Russia and Nato were on the same side, against Islamic state?

If Russian terms were that, it would be a good basis for exchanging.

But Russia would have to give up eastern Ukraine, except Crimea, and to accept Ukraine independent state. Russia must accept the legitimacy of the Ukrainian nation. It is a basic condition.

Incidentally Russia broke its deal about Ukraine territorial integrity.

313

A new defintion of losing, I guess.

314

Turkey says Russia should give back Crimea too.
I suppose that’s partly because of their concern about Kurd separatists in their own country.

315

Turkey wants a balance of powers in the black sea.

316

No, Russia is greedy. They want a land bridge from Russia to their land on the other side of the Ukraine and in order to do that, they must acquire Eastern Ukraine and they will do it by any means, including killing millions if they have to. It’s pure greed.

317

Well, speaking of Turkey

“When the time comes, we can come suddenly one night.” Erdogan said on Tuesday.

I guess Turkey and Greece aren’t exactly bosom buddies.

Do you think the relative inaction on two non-NATO nations “dispute” is emboldening Turkey in an inter-NATO dispute?

318

From the news of Ukraine’s latest offensive, it sounds like anyone with an army can go to war with Russia.

Ukrainian forces swept deeper into territory seized from fleeing Russian troops on Monday, as joyful residents returned to former frontline villages and Moscow grappled with the consequences of the collapse of its occupation force in northeastern Ukraine.
Ukraine’s general staff said early on Monday that its soldiers had recaptured more than 20 towns and villages in just the past day, after Russia acknowledged it was abandoning Izium, its main stronghold in northeastern Ukraine.

Winter is coming.

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319

Americas told ukraine to move in due to thinning lines of russian troop. 8 to 1 ratio in favour of ukraine soldiers. Russias moved out before they could be encircled so that was a failed outcome of an ukraine objective

More from Brian

Berletic: Ukraine’s Offensives: Tactical Victories Can Contribute to Strategic Defeat

  • Ukraine has committed what is left of its best troops and equipment to
    multiple and expensive offensives - both around Kherson and in Kharkov, and
    rumors of offensives being prepared elsewhere;

  • The Kherson offensive has failed, costing Ukraine multiple brigades’ worth of
    men and equipment with little territorial gain;

  • The Kharkov offensive has cost Ukraine a large amount of men and equipment
    with significant territorial gains but failed to eliminate the Russian forces
    holding the region;

  • Russia’s decision to withdraw from Kharkov conserves men and equipment for
    fighting later on and to be determined on Russian terms;

  • There will be a significant strategic cost for Ukraine’s tactical gains - some
    of which are already being paid along the line of contact where Ukrainian
    lines have been weakened as Kiev cobbled together these offensive forces;

  • There are significant parallels between this Ukrainian push and Germany’s
    Ardennes Offensive in 1944;

  • Russia is targeting Ukrainian infrastructure including communication towers
    and power plants for the first time amid its military operations, signalling a
    possible escalation;

– Ukraine's Offensives: Tactical Victories Can Contribute to Strategic Defeat

320

What do you suggest?
That Ukraine should stop winning to avoid a strategic defeat?.. :roll_eyes:

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321

Ceasefire and peace talks especially now when you think you have a strong hand

322

And give up what? How about Russia offering peace talks while they are still ahead?

But you are wrong in thinking Russia can be negotiated with.
Putin wants it ALL!
This is why In Russia voices are beginning to rise against continuing this futile exercise of crimes against humanity. Russia is going to pay a heavy price for Putin’s criminal behavior. The world is not yet done with this abomination.

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They are. But ukraine advised by the west to keep the war going

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Prove it!
Ukraine is not the bad guy here, much as you would like to place the blame for this current holocaust on Ukraine or NATO and the US in particular.

If Russia stops shooting and goes home, this war is over!