What’s wrong with that?
China was mad when they were left out of the meeting of Democratic countries. So, apparently they think it’s good
Nothing is really wrong with them if they develop organically. However, Westernization is something we force on other nations and it always ends badly.
I feel off my chair laughing when i read that
Provide an example. Badly for who? I always found this interesting. I don’t understand how you “force” liberal values on anyone. Unless you mean coercing people into valuing certain clothes, or eating junk food. But that’s more of a side effect of opening up more choices.
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Exposing oneself to other people’s ideas has its hazards
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Before you “feel” too amused , can you provide a better alternative model?
Democracy in America died in 1963 thanks to the CIA , america has brought democracy to no one, free market has never existed and never will and the wests international based “rule of law” has brought us endless wars.
Thems my thoughts
What planet do you live on? The most recent examples of course are Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria.
First, are you talking about the moral ideal of Democracy or the human flaws that corrupted some of it?
Exactly what do you mean by the “West’s international based rule of law”? Sounds like an admission that this was by common agreement such as charted through the United Nations with free participation by the majority of governments around the world.
Are you claiming that the US has been responsible for the world wars started by Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito?
Can you actually name one unprovoked war started by the US ?
3rd planet from the sun.
It’s funny you left out Iran, the place that had an elected leader, Mosadeggh in 1953. Kermit Roosevelt secretly funded the coup that got rid of him and installed Pahlavi, the one that anyone around in the 1970’s would know as “The Shah”. This was obviously not “organic”, and it ended badly.
It was about oil, not democracy. This is where it gets difficult to keep things separated. You and I can criticize the US government and it’s cozy relationship with big business. From that critical POV, we aren’t “really” a democracy and our markets aren’t free. From a longer, wider angle, there haven’t been any large scale examples of a better or freer democracy. So, what do we do? Always refer to it as “the sort of democratic (you know, on paper) place with a fair amount of freedom to start, run, own, and market a business, comparatively speaking of course”? It would get rather cumbersome, wouldn’t it?
Afghanistan was developing democracy and liberal freedoms, then the Taliban changed that, with some CIA involvement there too. It didn’t help that the USSR was trying to destroy them, and when we secretly help them defeat those invaders, we just walked away.
I’m less familiar with the origins of the others, but pretty sure those dictators rose to power without much help.
Regardless, I know my country doesn’t always do what the majority of its citizens want it to do. But let’s not forget how often you @thatoneguy have said that some of those citizens shouldn’t be voting. And, I know corporations have gained a lot of power, especially since we developed the standing army with bases around the world. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t good people, some of them with power, who want liberal democracy and a free market.
It’s weird that people will say you have to fight for freedom, but only imagine something like defeating Hitler or changing a regime in a country they couldn’t find on a map. You have to fight for it on your own turf too. And you have to do it peacefully, with democratic procedures, otherwise, you’ve already lost.
you agree that democracy IS a pillar that holds up america society. This pillar doesnt exist.
“Can you actually name one unprovoked war started by the US ?”
The oneguy put it well - what planet are you on??
Well, let’s have a look at the causes for US military operation.
Iraq (Saddam Hussein), invaded Kuwait, an ally and trading partner.
Afghanistan, was harboring al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden
Libya , 2012 Benghazi attacks, assaults on a U.S. diplomatic compound and a nearby CIA annex in the city of Benghazi, Libya , on September 11 –12 , 2012 , which resulted in the deaths of four Americans, including the U.S. ambassador to Libya —the first violent death of a U.S. ambassador since 1988 . 2012 Benghazi attacks | History, Facts, & Information | Britannica
Syria, # Keep US Troops in Syria
Four years after a terror attack claimed four U.S. lives, here’s a look at how the American presence remains useful.
So which war did the US start?
Whatr america did to Iran was not funny at all, neither was funny for Iraq, Syria and Libya \
Afganistan had a democracy with democratic elections in 1988 before America destroyed it with funding of the mujaheddin and giving rise to the Taliban
- was Iraq a threat to USA in 2003??
- was Libya a threat to USA in 2011?
- Afganistan - USA haboured terrorist. Where do you think AQ took lessons to fly planes?
- Syria - who and what gives the right for USA troops to be in Syria?
Didn’t say it was. And that’s what I did say any Afghanistan
- It was a threat to its neighbors and to oil prices
- Ghaddafi was a threat to his own people
- We met with some leaders. They guys in flight school were here on VISA. What evidence do you have that we knew they were terrorists?
- That one is too complicated. I won’t defend anyone.
[quote=“metalhead, post:35, topic:10241”]
- was Iraq a threat to USA in 2003??
Yes
- was Libya a threat to USA in 2011?
Yes
- Afganistan - USA harbored terrorists. Where do you think AQ took lessons to fly planes?
Are you claiming the US knowingly trained the terrorists?
I took flying lessons in the US, but I don’t fly planes into buildings.
The whole idea of flying lessons is to avoid disasters.
- Syria - who and what gives the right for USA troops to be in Syria?
When US citizens are getting killed, we do.
Eliminating US terrorists who have no business to be in another people’s country
Ala the Syrian business is a follow up of the Iraqi business. Bush junior was a fool and decided to overthrow Saddam Hussein, for ideological reasons and to allow some of his friends to get some big money.
When the Syrian population revolted, there was 2 solutions, to help it until the power be overthrown or to close eyes as before. The middle term chosen was a disaster.