Xain said; Again nature doesn’t create beauty, that is simply what humans impose on reality. Animals don’t respond to beauty they respond to the structure or pattern or form they see (we cannot say that is beauty for we are not them). A peacock in reality is not beautiful no matter how much you want to say so. There is no connection between mathematics and beauty, too bad the Greeks weren’t smart enough to see it was just their opinion.
Nature does not create beauty intentionally, evolution does probabilistically. Beauty is an emergent quality of natural selection of desirable traits in living organisms.
Xain, what is your favorite season of the year and why? And please humor me, choose one season however small the difference with the other three.
Mriana said: Maybe nature doesn’t create beauty, Write4U, but it can be awe inspiring or rather neuro-chemical stimulating triggering feelings of awe.
I agree with you completely. This is why I qualified it that nature does not intentionally create beauty, it is a probabilistic function and its success lies in the selection of desirable traits by potential suitors for procreation. In nature the male merely wants to mate and in the animal world it is the male who is usually chosen by the female for his impressive physical assets. (such as the male peacock). With humans the roles are equally divided and the female also strives to be the object of desire.
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Nature does not create beauty intentionally, evolution does probabilistically. Beauty is an emergent quality of natural selection of desirable traits in living organisms.
Xain, what is your favorite season of the year and why? And please humor me, choose one season however small the difference with the other three.
No it isn’t, it’s purely human judgment and nothing more.
I don’t have a favorite season since having likes and dislikes would be seeing things not as they truly are, it would be our “picture world” rather than what is real (to quote the Broward Meditation people).
Hmmm, you’re a funny fella. Always dodging. Never had to do any forced marches or anything like that. Have ya? There are things in life more interesting that nearly dying in a spit second car crash. One moment there, next moment hurting and I imagine feeling sorry for yourself, damned you cruel world how dare YOU do this to ME. In a hospital where everyone is taking care of you.
Not to minimize that particular horror, but
Sorry that’s not a long difficult march on low and no water rations, not even close.
I’m curious what are you arguing about here anyways? You’ve been told many times the futility of wishing away reality and meaning, but that if you wanted to - and had your mind set - that’s your choice do it, there will be consequences. Just like there are consequences for allowing things to matter in one’s life.
Xain said; No it isn’t, it’s purely human judgment and nothing more.
No it is the judgement of all living organisms that select mates.
I don’t have a favorite season since having likes and dislikes would be seeing things not as they truly are, it would be our “picture world” rather than what is real (to quote the Broward Meditation people).
And what is the picture world of the seasons? All the same reality? No seasonal phenomena, like sunshine in summer,
You believe that your inability to appreciate these natural phenomena is a sign of mental liberation? I think not.
You appear to me as an example of mental immaturity, the unfortunate exception who lacks the ability to experience the natural richness and beauty of life on earth and the majesty of the universe as the cradle of all creation.
In fact, I don’t really believe you. Methinks thou protest too much!
Xian, why are you so negative? Beauty isn’t an illusion, but it is in the eye of the beholder. Beauty, among other things in life, triggers neuro-chemicals in your brain and these chemicals stimulate various feelings. However, when these neuro-chemicals go arry people can suffer from depression or other mood disorders. Thus why we created medications and other treatments for mood disorders. Getting out in nature is one treatment for mood disorders because of its neuro-chemical stimulating effects it has on the human brain, which in turn improves the mood of the one affected with a mood disorder or even cabin fever. It’s also another reason as to why looking at cat or dog pictures helps us feel better too.
I’m curious what are you arguing about here anyways? You’ve been told many times the futility of wishing away reality and meaning, but that if you wanted to – and had your mind set – that’s your choice do it, there will be consequences. Just like there are consequences for allowing things to matter in one’s life.
Because it would be living a lie. Pretending that things matter is living a lie, an illusion. It would not be seeing things as they really are.
You believe that your inability to appreciate these natural phenomena is a sign of mental liberation? I think not.
You appear to me as an example of mental immaturity, the unfortunate exception who lacks the ability to experience the natural richness and beauty of life on earth and the majesty of the universe as the cradle of all creation.
In fact, I don’t really believe you. Methinks thou protest too much!
I would say you are the unfortunate one. A stunted individual unable to see things as they really are and trying to impose qualities like majesty and beauty on the world that don’t truly exist. It’s like realizing that much of the things in life you take to be real don’t actually exist. You are clouded by your judgement, stuck in your picture world but not reality (the picture world being that in which we live according to our image of things based on our experience of them).
Xian, why are you so negative? Beauty isn’t an illusion, but it is in the eye of the beholder. Beauty, among other things in life, triggers neuro-chemicals in your brain and these chemicals stimulate various feelings. However, when these neuro-chemicals go arry people can suffer from depression or other mood disorders. Thus why we created medications and other treatments for mood disorders. Getting out in nature is one treatment for mood disorders because of its neuro-chemical stimulating effects it has on the human brain, which in turn improves the mood of the one affected with a mood disorder or even cabin fever. It’s also another reason as to why looking at cat or dog pictures helps us feel better too.
Except that is only true because people don’t see nature for what it really is. The culture tends to have an idea of nature as being liberated or good when it’s neither. They don’t see that beauty is an illusion, it’s not real it’s just our judgment. Beauty being in the eye of the beholder is merely another example of why it’s not real, so you end up hurting your case.
Which is why it does not exist. The very fact that it’s subjective makes it not real. If beauty existed then everyone would fine the same thing beautiful.
Xain said; Which is why it does not exist. The very fact that it’s subjective makes it not real. If beauty existed then everyone would fine the same thing beautiful.
And there are large groups of people who find the same thing beautiful. Ever heard of Art museums, Concert Halls, Theatres that draw millions of people every year?
That everyone should ALL find the same thing beautiful is a false argument. Some people like music, other people like paintings. The number of beautiful things in nature are almost unlimited and is the basis for the old expression “Natura Artis Magistra”, which I keep dangling in front of you and you keep dismissing as a fool’s fantasy.
If you cannot see beauty it is not the problem of the millions of people who find satisfaction in viewing beauty in its many forms, natural or artificial. It is your problem!
You don’t see beauty in things? Sorry, you’re gonna have to live with that disability. Don’t tell me everybody else is a fool. You are fooling yourself.
Typically, Colleges of (Liberal) Arts and Sciences at a non-specialized university include a rather large number of departments offering a significant number of majors/minors or courses of study. Such departments/majors commonly include mathematics and "pure sciences" such as biology, chemistry, and physics for which B.S. and maybe M.S. degrees are offered, as well as a significant selection of liberal arts.
The “liberal arts” may include social sciences such as psychology, sociology, anthropology and other social studies such s history, geography, political science, etc. and language studies including English and other languages, linguistics, writing, literature, and communication arts and a variety of humanities and other fields of study.
The sciences may offer B.S. and maybe M.S. degrees, and the other majors may offer B.A. and maybe M.A. degrees. Humanities may include such fields of study as philosophy, classical studies, theology or religious studies, and certain others. Other fields of study may be lumped into a College of (Liberal) Arts and Sciences; however, certain specialized and professional fields are taught in more specialized colleges or schools such as a College of Engineering, College of Business Administration, College of Education, or a College of Fine Arts and certain graduate level schools such as law schools, medical schools, dental schools, etc. The situation may also vary between continents and their various countries.
Shall we just close these schools down because Beauty (Art) does not exist? Hell, maybe we should close all Liberal Arts and Science schools, maybe Sciences don’t exist either, after all a lot of Science investigates and is founded on the same principles as the Arts.
Patterns are especially related and shared by Science and Art. You think that is a coincidence?
And there are large groups of people who find the same thing beautiful. Ever heard of Art museums, Concert Halls, Theatres that draw millions of people every year?
That everyone should ALL find the same thing beautiful is a false argument. Some people like music, other people like paintings. The number of beautiful things in nature are almost unlimited and is the basis for the old expression “Natura Artis Magistra”, which I keep dangling in front of you and you keep dismissing as a fool’s fantasy.
If you cannot see beauty it is not the problem of the millions of people who find satisfaction in viewing beauty in its many forms, natural or artificial. It is your problem!
You don’t see beauty in things? Sorry, you’re gonna have to live with that disability. Don’t tell me everybody else is a fool. You are fooling yourself.
It is the masses who are fooling themselves. In all honesty there are no beautiful things in nature because that is not reality, it’s just personal judgment. An art museum isn’t proof because art is to one extent or another conditioned. You and everyone else are fools who can’t see reality for what it is, just what you project.
This isn’t a disability, it’s a strength. The ability to look at the world as it is and not the dressed up fantasy people live in. You are pitiable for not being able to leave the comforting illusions behind.
Beauty is false but the masses won’t understand that no matter how much you say so. They’ll plug their ears or just look away as usual. As I have mentioned, you are stuck in your picture world. You aren’t living in reality. Few people actually do.
It goes without saying that the phrase you dangle all the time is false of course.
Art could be closed and the people would eventually move on. Humans thousands of years ago were fine without it and so are most life forms. It’s a defect in humanity more than a boon.
Yeah, you completely misunderstand the intent of these teachings. You see Emptiness as Fullness. It isn’t.
These teachings are a warning against fanaticism, which is what you are displaying in your sweeping generalizations. You see nature as a threat, it isn’t. Nature is our creator. And it does so in a quasi-intelligent manner. And that’s the connection to Buddhism.
No one claims that nature needs to be conscious to be a creative force. It’s just that conscious organisms (a product of Nature) can appreciate what Nature has created.
Thus it isn’t Buddism but Naturalism that is the mark of being in touch with reality.
