On Discussing the Self

General Discussion
41

The Road Not Taken (by Robert Frost)

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,

And sorry I could not travel both

And be one traveler, long I stood

And looked down one as far as I could

To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,

And having perhaps the better claim,

Because it was grassy and wanted wear;

Though as for that the passing there

Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay

In leaves no step had trodden black.

Oh, I kept the first for another day!

Yet knowing how way leads on to way,

I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh

Somewhere ages and ages hence:

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

42

Xain: “if I lost my memory tomorrow then would I still react the same?”

Of course not. My aunt developed Alzheimer’s she went through all the classic stages.

Wikipedia: Alzheimer’s disease: “The most common early symptom is difficulty in remembering recent events. As the disease advances, symptoms can include problems with language, disorientation (including easily getting lost), mood swings, loss of motivation, not managing self-care, and behavioural issues. As a person’s condition declines, they often withdraw from family and society. Gradually, bodily functions are lost, ultimately leading to death.”

As the disease progressed she gave fewer indications that the body we recognized contained the “she”, the person, that we had known. She didn’t recognize her only child. She sat at the table not eating because she had forgotten how to use a knife and fork. And much more.

Life is transient. That is not a problem; there is no solution. It is a fact. Death is not a threat, it is a fact. The fact that you were born and you are living is not a problem; you cannot change those facts. It is what it is.

If you don’t like the way it is, change it. Your reality is unique to you. Your point of viewing that reality is right there between you eyes. No one else has your exact view. No one else has your body. No one else can make it do what you can make it do. No one else has your sense of “I am”. You alone have the power of, the authority over and the responsibility for your life. As they say, resistance is futile; just do it.

 

43
Bob said,
As the disease progressed she gave fewer indications that the body we recognized contained the “she”, the person, that we had known. She didn’t recognize her only child. She sat at the table not eating because she had forgotten how to use a knife and fork. And much more.

This is due to the gradual literal unraveling of the microtubules in the brain. Microtubules ar responsible for mitosis (cell division) and when they begin tyo disintegrates they are unable to grow new brain cells.

See the Hameroff video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx0SsffdMBw
44

For the non-Trekkies, Zefram Cochrane is the inventor/discoverer of warp drive on earth. In First Contact, the TNG crew travels back in time to save humanity by helping him with that, because the bad guys had traveled back in time and stopped him, anyway. These future humans all knew Cochrane as a great man in their history books, but at the time he hadn’t accomplished anything, he just saw himself as a regular guy. Thing is, we’re all regular. People with lots of talent in one area can be totally inept in something like making conversation. So in this scene, Riker is convincing him to get his spaceship put back together and do what he is destined to do.

William Riker: Someone once said, “Don’t try to be a great man. Just be a man and let history make its own judgements.”

Zefram Cochrane: That’s rhetorical nonsense. Who said that?

Riker: [smiling] You did. Ten years from now.

45

That Frost poem doesn’t mean what you think.

 

CC you are still incorrect. As I said most don’t have talents and I’m not talking about grand big ones. Also the dignity of the effort doesn’t matter, that’s a lie we feed ourselves to avoid dealing with mediocrity. As I said, most will never amount to anything and struggle on in quiet desperation. I know I likely will because I have no talents to speak of and I can’t go back to pretending things matter when they don’t. So the only thing left seems to be waiting to die.

46

Citing a TV show doesn’t mean anything

47
@ Xian As I said most don’t have talents and I’m not talking about grand big ones. Also the dignity of the effort doesn’t matter, that’s a lie we feed ourselves to avoid dealing with mediocrity. As I said, most will never amount to anything and struggle on in quiet desperation. I know I likely will because I have no talents to speak of and I can’t go back to pretending things matter when they don’t. So the only thing left seems to be waiting to die.
As one mediocrity to another, it's okay dear boy.

I do get a kick of some of the associations your comments trigger. May I be so bold as to share:

48

It’s not a TV show, it’s an insight. :wink:

49

Mediocrity is not ok, just look at all the people that struggle in those middling jobs because they have to.

Also psychology suggests that we can’t know ourselves because introspection is a flawed method of gaining knowledge since the origins of our feelings are largely unknown to us.

50

Also that vid was irrelevant

51
Mediocrity is not ok,
Yeah, guess that's true enough, I sure wanted something more. Got it too, but most of it is on the inside with experiences and knowledge and in relationships and pride in a job more well done than not.
52

Well I’m trying to say that most people don’t amount to much of anything.

Also to keep with the thread topic: How I Discovered That I Wasn’t the Centre of the Universe (and Neither Are You) - Mindful

53

The fat boy at mindful.org is trying to make a living. What he’s preaching doesn’t amount to much for sure, just another way to tune out the rest of the world and accomplish nothing.

You are the center of both your physical universe and your spiritual universe. Everything you recognize as other than you in either universe is relative to you. You are the only essential entity in both. You are the most important person in both. You have all the power, all authority and all the responsibility in both.

If you want to tune out the rest of the world and get into the moment get a job, any job, and do your best at it. Join an EMS unit; doing triage in an emergency situation will help you focus. Join the military; shooting at people who are shooting at you will focus you like nothing else. Volunteer at an old-age center; you will become the center of more than one life. Try raising a child, you won’t have time to feel sorry for yourself.

54

@ Bob, that’s beautiful and another example of why CFI needs a LIKE button.

You are the center of both your physical universe and your spiritual universe. Everything you recognize as other than you in either universe is relative to you. You are the only essential entity in both. You are the most important person in both. You have all the power, all authority and all the responsibility in both.

…

Join an EMS unit; doing triage in an emergency situation will help you focus. …


 

55

Bob, I mentioned that to Xian many months ago.

Even caring for a kitten or puppy could open him up to the profound sense of fulfillment that comes from caring for something with wants and needs and that feels love and pain. Unless someone is a sadist, there is a deep and meaningful connection with who/whatever they are caring for.

Without that sort of connection in life it can be hard to find meaning. It is a fairly basic need (“Belonging and Love Needs” in the following image) so has a very significant effect on quality of life if it isn’t met.

 

593×547 31.7 KB

 

I think Xian is trying to jump to the top of the pyramid without taking all of the lower steps. It doesn’t work that way but it appears that newer generations have been duped by media and society into thinking it’s their right to be able to do so.

56

You are wrong Rat, again. Caring for something else does not elicit such feelings, I know because I have tried. I’ve owned several dogs with my family and the only thing that showed me is what a pain it is to care for others.

Also Maslows pyramid is complete bunk to put it mildly.

Also I think you missed the point in that no one is the center of the universe especially “their own”. That kind of thinking is the reason humanity is in their proverbial hole because people fancy themselves the hero of their story, but no one is. There is no spiritual universe and as far as I know I don’t think the physical one has a center either.

What you all seem to forget is that such things have no inherent value which is why they don’t impact me. As I have told you I can’t PRETEND those things matter because they don’t, nothing does and it’s hard to deal with such a realization. Caring for others does nothing to me, if anything it has the opposite effect.

57
Citing a TV show doesn’t mean anything
But citing a meditation group in Florida does? Or any other self-proclaimed guru?
58
Also Maslows pyramid is complete bunk to put it mildly.
I wouldn't mind your "bunking" so much, if you would offer an alternative. The search for meaning has been a popular hobby for most of human history. That kind of makes you think it's something that we all have in common, doesn't it?

Here’s an interesting alternative. One where self actualization is the basis that builds to cultural perpetuity.

59

Still a moot point when you realize that the reality of existence is that none of that matters. Passing on teachings doesn’t matter and neither does helping others. We just pretend they do but if we stopped as actually asked ourselves why we even bother, we will see that there ultimately wasn’t any real foundation to any of it.

60

Xian,

Maslow made a scale ranking the relative importance of the needs of an average person. It is not meant to indicate the order in which every single person has to order every single aspect of their life. Consider it to be generally true. For example, you can put some Aesthetic needs over some Cognitive needs (you can comb your hair before you read a book) but you can’t put Aesthetic needs over Safety Needs (you can’t comb your hair before you make sure you have proper clothes and shelter [it’s very cold here and you would die in a matter of minutes].)

I see you worrying about Transcendence without satisfying Belonging and Love needs. That won’t work unless you really are incapable of emotions as you claim, and if that’s the case you are the rare individual who has no Belonging and Love needs. But since you spend a significant portion of your life here looking for support and human connections, I don’t believe that for a second.

You might have to admit you’re a human with normal human needs and wants. That’s not a bad thing because you are an amazing collections of atoms that is capable doing stuff no other collection of atoms in the universe can do.

If you’re an introvert and/or have anxiety (that’s me) then just hang out here and chat. There’s no shame in being who you are so stop worrying that you are. Admit you’re human and rejoice!!