It’s pretty much his theme isn’t it? And the list here is directed generally to all other members. He is on a personal mission to let us all know that we are sheep.
Indeed, but he fails in thinking humanists are sheep. He misses many things about humanism, starting with we do not fall in line with what a ministers tells us, not even a humanist minister. The Humanist Manifesto is a general declaration of the values that most humanist share, but it is not like the 10 Commandment where we must follow them to the letter and do as every other humanist does. Even so, I’m willing to bet that many humanists have looked at the science and health guidance on COVID-19 and are pretty much doing the same things I’m doing. However, not all humanists are vegetarian. Some are, but not all. That is only two examples as to how humanist think for themselves.
Well we live and learn.
FIRST : Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created.
SECOND : Humanism believes that man is a part of nature and that he has emerged as a result of a continuous process.
THIRD : Holding an organic view of life, humanists find that the traditional dualism of mind and body must be rejected.
FOURTH : Humanism recognizes that man’s religious culture and civilization, as clearly depicted by anthropology and history, are the product of a gradual development due to his interaction with his natural environment and with his social heritage. The individual born into a particular culture is largely molded by that culture.
FIFTH : Humanism asserts that the nature of the universe depicted by modern science makes unacceptable any supernatural or cosmic guarantees of human values. Obviously humanism does not deny the possibility of realities as yet undiscovered, but it does insist that the way to determine the existence and value of any and all realities is by means of intelligent inquiry and by the assessment of their relations to human needs. Religion must formulate its hopes and plans in the light of the scientific spirit and method.
SIXTH : We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of “new thought”.
SEVENTH : Religion consists of those actions, purposes, and experiences which are humanly significant. Nothing human is alien to the religious. It includes labor, art, science, philosophy, love, friendship, recreation–all that is in its degree expressive of intelligently satisfying human living. The distinction between the sacred and the secular can no longer be maintained.
EIGHTH : Religious Humanism considers the complete realization of human personality to be the end of man’s life and seeks its development and fulfillment in the here and now. This is the explanation of the humanist’s social passion.
NINTH : In the place of the old attitudes involved in worship and prayer the humanist finds his religious emotions expressed in a heightened sense of personal life and in a cooperative effort to promote social well-being.
TENTH : It follows that there will be no uniquely religious emotions and attitudes of the kind hitherto associated with belief in the supernatural.
ELEVENTH : Man will learn to face the crises of life in terms of his knowledge of their naturalness and probability. Reasonable and manly attitudes will be fostered by education and supported by custom. We assume that humanism will take the path of social and mental hygiene and discourage sentimental and unreal hopes and wishful thinking.
TWELFTH : Believing that religion must work increasingly for joy in living, religious humanists aim to foster the creative in man and to encourage achievements that add to the satisfactions of life.
THIRTEENTH : Religious humanism maintains that all associations and institutions exist for the fulfillment of human life. The intelligent evaluation, transformation, control, and direction of such associations and institutions with a view to the enhancement of human life is the purpose and program of humanism. Certainly religious institutions, their ritualistic forms, ecclesiastical methods, and communal activities must be reconstituted as rapidly as experience allows, in order to function effectively in the modern world.
FOURTEENTH : The humanists are firmly convinced that existing acquisitive and profit-motivated society has shown itself to be inadequate and that a radical change in methods, controls, and motives must be instituted. A socialized and cooperative economic order must be established to the end that the equitable distribution of the means of life be possible. The goal of humanism is a free and universal society in which people voluntarily and intelligently cooperate for the common good. Humanists demand a shared life in a shared world.
FIFTEENTH AND LAST : We assert that humanism will: (a) affirm life rather than deny it; (b) seek to elicit the possibilities of life, not flee from them; and (c) endeavor to establish the conditions of a satisfactory life for all, not merely for the few. By this positive morale and intention humanism will be guided, and from this perspective and alignment the techniques and efforts of humanism will flow.
Thank you Mriana.
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You’re welcome. I think that is the 4th version. There are 3 previous ones, but the 4th is basically a summary of what the others say.
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No, I don’t think you’re all sheep, and though it might not seem like it, I want to find common ground between me and the other members. The biggest problem I see here on this forum is that people are way too sensitive and seemingly get offended by even the slightest inclination of their character being challenged. Look back on any of my previous posts and see if there had ever been a time where I took what someone had said about me and took offense to it.
I get “attacks” like this:
many times in the past from various members and I have no problem with it. In fact, I wish people we be so forthcoming to say what’s on their mind rather than everyone trying to be so nice not willing to call each other out lest they feel victimized. Mriana impressed me not holding back, or, well…come to think of it…I’m sure she probably had a few more select words she wanted to use to express her disdain of my stature within the forum.
My point is, arguing and calling people out is healthy so long as it’s not just one being outright belligerent to another member. People don’t need to be nicer, they need to have thicker skin. It’s getting so bad on the social media platforms (i.e. Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, Youtube, TikTok, etc…) that people are now looking for new things to be offended by. If you don’t believe me, then I can start posting my sources and let your judge for yourself.
Ok just to clarify, this is not a bash on you citizenschallengev4, but I got to 1 and already I am baffled.
How has no one ever been called out on this one? This is a complete contradiction within itself. The very definition of religion is
“the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.”
A Religious humanist is
“a person with the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods, yet also believes the universe as self-existing and not created.”
So I’ll play the devil’s advocate and say that an RH is a person who believes in a God, but that though God exists, he had no part in anything in the universe or humanity’s existence.
I don’t want to go down the list any further as it will sound as though I’m just bashing, but there are many elements that you had posted that I completely agree with, with maybe a little tweaking and clarification.
I’ve never assumed anyone here as being a Humanist until you’ve brought it up. I’ve heard the word thrown around thought the years in my life but to be honest, I never really have read or ever known the true definition of what a Humanist is. I’ll look further into it in the future. Oh how I could only imagine the joy of expectations from this forum as to my opinion on this topic.
Elton John sang it best…
“Can you feel the love tonight!”
As all the prey celebrated the birth of their new born predator.
All the nice people I’ve ever met have been on this forum.
Gee, that’s nice. I don’t get that from any other post you’ve made. I guess you show it differently than most people. I’m not going to attempt to sort out the above posts, I’ll just say, that when a member starts showing a regular pattern of disruption and rule breaking, I start keeping some notes. I believe I’ve listed my concerns with you. I don’t believe I have personally attacked you on anything approaching a regular basis.
Religion or philosophy. Religion involves worship.
Accepting that the universe is an entity onto itself, is more like accepting a fundamental knowable thing. Of course human can never know everything, but scientists do know and have enunciated a lot about the universe and we can play it backwards and are left with certain inevitable conclusions.
Why do you call that religion?
Not that different from my harping on learning to explicitly acknowledge and appreciate the Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide
I wouldn’t call it being “called out”, but the use of the term “religious humanist” certainly has been debated, sometimes just dismissed as wrong, but that’s like, their opinion man. No one has started a war over it that I know of.
Mitch simply redefines it for his own narrative, then denigrates that definition and dismisses the entire rest of the list. He does this constantly on most topics, all the while denigrating people for holding beliefs they don’t hold and for intending meanings they don’t intend. It’s a dark place he inhabits.
“religious” includes the definition of being devoted, scrupulous, like religious worship, but not toward a deity. This is the definition I see the Manifesto using. Almost all religions have a creation story, so putting “not created” in the item sets them apart.
Personally, I’d rather they avoid it, since it creates the confusion we’re seeing here.
I’m surprised by this. Not assuming people here are humanist, unless they say differently, seems to miss what CFI is about. You also miss the section concerning humanism too.
A little history on CFI. American Humanist Association (AHA) and Paul Kurtz had a little tiff years ago. Paul left AHA and started Secular Humanist/CFI. During that time the 3rd Humanist Manifesto was being created, but Paul decided to create one for Secular Humanists. You have https://secularhumanism.org/ and CFI, both of which Paul Kurtz was involved in starting.
Now you may wonder why I mention this tiff. It’s because on may go to AHA and see 4 different ones and then come here and find the one, drawn up by Paul Kurtz et al. That is the reason. The AHA applies to the various different types of humanists, the broader definition, and the one here on CFI/Secular Humanists is directed towards Secularists. I think I’ll start a thread on the various manifestos and the history of them, but here’s the one on CFI (declaration and the Affirmations drawn up by Paul Kurtz):
You still need to get out more.
Ok, I’ll need to do a little more looking into the details of humanism. I appreciate the links that you gave me but I’ll also have to refer to other sources.
I have more links in the humanism thread I started in the humanism section and I will add even more soon. So there is more coming. BTW, if you want reliable resources, I’d stay away from Fundamngelical sites. There are some very good resources out there to get accurate info about humanism and I have a lot links and book sources, which I will mention as many as I can in that section. Feel free to contribute if you find something that is reliable and not some right wing Fundamngelical source that bashes it because it’s not Xian.