Gender

There are so many more variations on gender science,
Of course. we all know that. We can accommodate those on the far ends of the curve, but we can do it without destroying our existing culture.
It is a very fringe idea to let sexes freely mix in sports, so, of course we aren’t focusing on that. It’s not being proposed in any serious way.
That is exactly what those involved in women's sports are saying the outcome of Biden's order will be. It is not "freely mixing in sports" as you say. It is males who "identify" as female being allowed to compete in women's sports. It has happened already.
I’m so tired of responding to things that are not real problems.
The people involved think it is a real problem. I think they know better than you.
Children should be able to learn without worrying about whether they will be denied access to the restroom, the locker room, or school sports.

Not sure who said this, but this is where I need to say something, because this is NOT a gender thing. This is a human rights thing. As a mother of biracial [adult] children, children also need to be able to not worry about being discriminated against because of the colour of their skin. At one time, restrooms, water fountains, and more were even segregated by skin colour. People of colour were denied service at restaurants based on skin colour and the list goes on and on. Now thanks to the dotard, some blatant signs of racism are seen again. Not necessarily those again, but others.

My point is, children should be accepted as children. Full stop. Period. Not denied access to restrooms, water fountains, schools (some children, because of the colour of their skin were denied the same education as a white child), they dress as girl when they have a penis, etc etc. This is a human rights thing and I take you back to one of my previous posts about accepting everyone as human beings regardless of differences. You might not agree with one’s lifestyle, their chosen style of dress, how they present themselves, sexual orientation, creeped out by their disability, see them as stupid, don’t think their complexion is beautiful because it’s not like yours (also dumb), or whatever, they are still human beings and are entitled to rights and equality as human beings, even and especially as children. They should not need the National Guard, to protect them from stupid people, just to attend public or private school.

The people involved think it is a real problem. -- Bob
Of course it is a real problem. It also is a problem that covers a small handful of actual cases and potential cases. Anyone who tries something, like self-identifying just to get on the girls golf team, or something, will be immediately challenged and the case will be used to create a precedent in actual law. No Presidential broad brush stroke can prevent that from happening. The courts are not held to a policy that was signed by only one man. Just like you are having trouble seeing the difference between an election and a coup, you are having trouble understanding how the checks and balances of the branches of government work.

The primary intent of this is to allow women who have the potential to become world class athletes to use the resources of their schools to improve their skills. We shouldn’t stop the whole program because some jerk kid might abuse it and beat up a girl on the girl’s boxing team. People are not so stupid that they would stand by and let that happen.

That is exactly what those involved in women’s sports are saying the outcome of Biden’s order will be. It is not “freely mixing in sports” as you say. It is males who “identify” as female being allowed to compete in women’s sports. It has happened already.
It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Balancing the "need" to include trans athletes with the traditional sports values of competition and fairness among players will probably be impossible. Well, not probably, definitely.

Another complication is the trans people who enter sports are not doing it because they want to play, but because they want public recognition of their identity.

It was probably the ones who were getting beat up, killed, not allowed to have a job or get a promotion that turned it into being a big deal. If they were treated like everyone else in the first place, then there would be no additional “attention” required.
Discrimination against trans individuals is extremely rare because they themselves are extremely rare. Trans issues have become more well known in recent times entirely because of social media.

I don’t know how rare it is given I’ve met 5 millennial Transgender people and one in the Gen X generation.

In fact, there are many categories :

  • more and more people are not happy with the limits fixed traditionally to men and women by our societies. Women wants to be allowed to do what men do and be treated as human beings, men want to be able to wear skirts and act without conforming themselves to the cannons of virility. Wearing skirts is a form. In fact they dont want to conform to gender roles
  • gender fluids are people who don't identify strictly to one sex and can change from day to day.
  • transgenders are people who think at different degrees that they belong to the other sex. Some will go for just some changes, others will go for full change.
I don't know so many people but i have personally met 3 of them, one in my family. I feel that there are many more than one believes but that they were afraid to show themselves in the past.

So now Biden says trans-whatever people can serve in the military. I imagine all eight of them who have been wanting to get in are thrilled. Best not to let these people take point on patrol. I wonder if taxpayers will be responsible for the cost of their meds and health issues especially after they get out.

Discrimination against trans individuals is extremely rare because they themselves are extremely rare. -- oneguy
That's kind of what I said. Compared to the overall population yes, they are rare, but of the few that exist are almost all discriminated against. Sure, social media has helped raise awareness, so what? If you want people from the general population to stop killing people like yourself, you have to reach out to all of them, you aren't going to identify the killers until they already have you in a choke hold.
Another complication is the trans people who enter sports are not doing it because they want to play, but because they want public recognition of their identity.
And you know this how?
Discrimination against trans individuals is extremely rare because they themselves are extremely rare. Trans issues have become more well known in recent times entirely because of social media.
Or maybe because so many of them are actually hiding because of discrimination.

 

It’s really amazing how closed minded some people insist on being. They make up their own alternative facts to fit the narrative they refuse to admit may be wrong.

 

 

 

So now Biden says trans-whatever people can serve in the military.
Did you catch the part where he Repealed the Ban

That means they were serving previously, then some homophobe decided to ban them from the military.

How effective can someone be if they have to constantly hide who they are?

 

 

The primary intent of this is to allow women who have the potential to become world class athletes to use the resources of their schools to improve their skills.
The primary intent of what? Biden's order? No way is it concerned with the potential of women.

As for “world class athletes”, my understanding is the IOC continues to be concerned that men will masquerade as women in order to win in a particular sport and are still trying to figure out how to positively identify what constitutes a true female athlete.

People are not so stupid ...
I'm not so sure about that, but I do hope you are right.
As for “world class athletes”, my understanding is the IOC continues to be concerned that men will masquerade as women in order to win in a particular sport and are still trying to figure out how to positively identify what constitutes a true female athlete.
Looks like they figured it out while you keep your head in the sand.

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1091417/ioc-guidelines-transgender-tokyo-2020

The athlete would have to have declared that their gender identity is female, with the declaration unable to be changed for a minimum of four years.

Athletes would also be required to demonstrate that their total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months prior to their first competition - with the requirement for any longer period to be based on a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12 months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in women’s competition.

An athlete’s total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.

Compliance with the conditions may be monitored by testing, with non-compliance leading to eligibility to compete in events being suspended for 12 months.

That means they were serving previously
No, it doesn't. It means that there was a ban on them serving.

Just like Lincoln’s emancipation proclamation didn’t free a single slave, Biden’s order didn’t place a single trans person into the military; it just removed a ban on them serving.

In my opinion having trans people in the military places an additional liability upon the military, others serving with trans people and the taxpayer. The military is authorized to deny you the opportunity to serve if you have issues which they deem will adversely impact your ability to perform. Performance as part of an organization includes not just physical ability but also social interactions. In any number of ways one’s psychological and emotional profile may be more of a determinant of capacity to participate successfully in an organization than physical factors. I disagree with Biden’s decision.

No, it doesn’t. It means that there was a ban on them serving.
Remember the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" BS? They were already serving.

This is from when the homophobe put the BAN IN PLACE:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-s-controversial-transgender-military-policy-goes-effect-n993826

Under the new policy, which the Department of Defense has insisted is not a “ban,” currently serving transgender individuals who have already received a diagnosis of gender dysphoria may continue to serve in their preferred gender, receive hormone treatments and undergo gender-affirming surgery. But after Friday, anyone with gender dysphoria who is taking hormones or has already undergone a gender transition will not be allowed to enlist.
Keep trying...

@ibelieveinlogic

So now Biden says trans-whatever people can serve in the military. I imagine all eight of them who have been wanting to get in are thrilled. Best not to let these people take point on patrol. I wonder if taxpayers will be responsible for the cost of their meds and health issues especially after they get out.

What do you hate people so much? You seem to hate President Biden, transgender people, those who say they are Xian but in your opinion are not, I can’t begin to list others you have hated on on this forum, but that’s just a start. In this thread, it’s transgender people. So what if they serve in the military. As for their meds you’re OK with a male vet getting Viagra so he can get it on with his wife, but you’re not OK with a trans male vet getting female hormones? You’re OK with a female officer getting the Pill, so she doesn’t get pregnant while serving, but not OK with a trans male officer getting testosterone? I don’t understand your thoughts on this. Why is it OK for us to take care of those who are as they are at birth, but not take care of those who decide they are the opposite of what they were born? Aren’t they all human beings who deserve health care based on their needs?

What do you hate people so much? ...
I wonder if he also hates vets with PTSD because "they just can't hack it" Think of all the taxpayer money we could save if we just declared PTSD a HOAX and stop all the treatment and meds. After all, you can't see PTSD. It's all in their heads. Or maybe they're just using the diagnosis as an excuse to get good drugs!

 

@mrmhead I wonder that too. It also seems he doesn’t understand not liking the action of a criminal (ie the Dotard) and hating people for individual differences. There is a difference between hating a person’s (or people’s actions) and hating on differences. The dotard is a criminal and no one appreciates (or no one should) the actions of criminals. Some people seem to confuse the two. The dotard indirectly killing people with COVID-19 by spewing mis/disinformation and propaganda, is totally different from women taking birth control or a trans woman taking hormones to have effeminate characteristics. Sociopathic behaviour is not the same as sexual orientation or gender issues. Hating on sociopathic behaviour is not the same as hating on women and/or trans. Hating on a sociopathic wannabe dictator is not the same as hating on a real president. I think too many people confuse the two. There is hating on actions (murder, genocide, etc) and then there is hating on the traits of various humans or the person. Some cannot understand the difference and see it as the same thing. It’s not. He’s hating on groups of people for their traits, not socially unacceptable actions, yet we were the bad guys when we went nuts on the dotard for his sociopathic behaviours. He can’t see the difference.

@mriana:

@mrmhead I wonder that too.

It also seems he doesn’t understand not liking the action of a criminal (ie the Dotard) and hating people for individual differences.

There is a difference between hating a person’s (or people’s actions) and hating on differences.

The dotard is a criminal and no one appreciates (or no one should) the actions of criminals.

Some people seem to confuse the two.

The dotard indirectly killing people with COVID-19 by spewing mis/disinformation and propaganda, is totally different from women taking birth control or a trans woman taking hormones to have effeminate characteristics.

Sociopathic behaviour is not the same as sexual orientation or gender issues.

Hating on sociopathic behaviour is not the same as hating on women and/or trans.

Hating on a sociopathic wannabe dictator is not the same as hating on a real president.

I think too many people confuse the two.

There is hating on actions (murder, genocide, etc) and then there is hating on the traits of various humans or the person.

Some cannot understand the difference and see it as the same thing. It’s not.

He’s hating on groups of people for their traits, not socially unacceptable actions, yet we were the bad guys when we went nuts on the dotard for his sociopathic behaviours.

He can’t see the difference.


I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Some paragraphs are so good, they need to be allowed to breath like a fine wine. :wink:

 

I’m reminded of all the confusion caused within counseling and self-help - by failing to make the distinction between REASONS and JUSTIFICATIONS.

You can’t understand a dysfunctional situation if you can’t be grown up enough to tease out the REASONS behind dysfunctional dynamics, or blow outs - face them, understand them, deal with them. Doing that is not justifying anything, it’s about learning and understanding.

The justifications, or lack thereof, can then be constructively examined and dealt with. Constantly mixing up the two leads to quagmire.