And what can we do about those damn Canadian immigrants (Ted Cruz) coming in and destroying the fabric of our society?You don't see millions of Canadians emigrating legally or illegally to the US. Why? Because they have built a strong nation and have a strong sense of national identity. They are proud of what they have. But if they were streaming across by the millions I would be against that too. Race has nothing to do with it.
And what can we do about those damn Canadian immigrants (Ted Cruz) coming in and destroying the fabric of our society?You don't see millions of Canadians emigrating legally or illegally to the US. Why? Because they have built a strong nation and have a strong sense of national identity. They are proud of what they have. But if they were streaming across by the millions I would be against that too. Race has nothing to do with it. I'm not sure that Canadian is a race. But, IMO, one Ted Cruz is more damaging than (at least) a thousand refugees. (But to be clear, I am being tongue-in-cheek about painting all Canadians with a broad and disgusting Ted Cruz stroke).
No. It's the entire history of prejudice.No it's not. You just need a bogeyman to support your argument.
Get people to hate other people who are just like them, except for their ethnicity.Definitely a factor in many places, including the US. We are trying to fix that here within our own national identity. What does that have to do with illegal immigrants?
Get them to focus on fighting each other for the scraps you are throwing them.Among American Citizens yes....what does this have to do with illegal immigration? Illegal immigrants just compound the problem for people like myself trying to fix what's wrong with The USA.
If I'm wrong, then you need to come up with a justification for why you get to have everything you have.LOL!! What?
You can't deny that America was built on war and slavery. If we somehow deserve this land and others don't, then you are saying all of that is just and right.Most countries were built on War. What's your point? The US is slowly but surely putting it's slavery past behind it. It still has a long way to go. What does this have to do with illegal immigrants? Illegal immigrants do a disservice to all of the other races which come here legally and try to integrate into the fabric of our society. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people assume that certain ethnicities were here illegally. It denigrates the people who came here lawfully. Nobody deserves the land in which they live. They are legally entitled to it through Jus Sanguinis and Jus Solis. It's called law. Illegal immigrants are law-breakers. Your impassioned plea for One World of Peace Politics is ridiculous and unobtainable. Furthermore it's just a ruse to justify the admission of millions of illegal immigrants who are a growing parasite on this country. God only knows how the presence of 10s of millions of illegal immigrants have affected lawmakers decisions on things like health care and other social contracts. Yeah! Really!! It's holding law abiding, US citizens back.
I'm not sure that Canadian is a race.Exactly, nor is Mexican, Honduran, or Guatemalan.
There are enormous numbers of persons in the world fleeing from not only economic hardships around the world, but from violence. With AGW continuing unabated, their will be more and more in the future. Aside from doing what we can, internally, to not encourage them to flee here, we should also examine and adjust our policies in regards to other nations, that may contribute to those nations being a place to flee from. Oh yeah, and converting to clean renewable energy, ASAP, would not be a bad idea, either.
There are enormous numbers of persons in the world fleeing from not only economic hardships around the world, but from violence. With AGW continuing unabated, their will be more and more in the future. Aside from doing what we can, internally, to not encourage them to flee here, we should also examine and adjust our policies in regards to other nations, that may contribute to those nations being a place to flee from. Oh yeah, and converting to clean renewable energy, ASAP, would not be a bad idea, either.Yes there's that too. But usually those folks flee here with our welcoming. Vietnamese, Hmong Chinese, Iraqis, Sudanese, etc etc.. They are welcomed here by the US government and will become legal US citizens. I think that's great. I welcome them all. I love their food and cultures. The US planned for them to come here. We assisted them and provided them with housing and other means to get started. Awesome!! That's the US that I know and love. Not millions of unaccounted for and undocumented people.
I remember when the USA could afford to conduct a god-awful war in Viet Nam (that puts any of the skirmishes, we have conducted since, to shame, in terms of scope), put men on the moon, continue to build a massive interstate highway system, deal with extraordinary internal social unrest, and arrange for taking in and assimilating some of the refugees that we helped create by engaging in war, all at, generally, the same time.
I'm not sure that Canadian is a race.Exactly, nor is Mexican, Honduran, or Guatemalan. That of course is correct. There is no such thing as race. But the term "racism" still means treating people as a group based on skin color or nationality or whatever. Instead of talking about "Mexican" or even "illegal immigrants" we should be talking about worker's rights. BTW, the law that is broken is an illegal border crossing, a misdemeanor. I'm not sure about the details of working without a permit. Point is, it's like calling someone driving 71 MPH an "illegal driver".
This really is the biggest hole in your argument. You are ignoring that these people come here to work, and as the articles about Alabama pointed out, those were jobs no one else was taking and they spent their money locally. That is, they are part of this economy. You have done nothing to make your case that they are damaging anything. You have no data on these costs you are talking about because that data doesn't exist. "War is just and let's just forget about slavery", that's your whole argument? You are part of the problem, no, you are the problem.If I'm wrong, then you need to come up with a justification for why you get to have everything you have.LOL!! What?
If we want to keep American labor American.... the ONLY SOLUTION is for business owners to not hire Meso-Americans, out of a sense of racial/nationalist pride.....to be openly racist/xenophobic. They will lose money, and productivity, but racism has to be their motivation. Nothing else will work.No it doesn't have to be racist!! The US has a widely diverse array of races which are US citizens. Nationalist motives are acceptable however. So you are partially correct. Please don't confuse Nationalism with racism! Meh, the two can't be separated. At least in a meaningful way.
If we want to keep American labor American.... the ONLY SOLUTION is for business owners to not hire Meso-Americans, out of a sense of racial/nationalist pride.....to be openly racist/xenophobic. They will lose money, and productivity, but racism has to be their motivation. Nothing else will work.No it doesn't have to be racist!! The US has a widely diverse array of races which are US citizens. Nationalist motives are acceptable however. So you are partially correct. Please don't confuse Nationalism with racism! Meh, the two can't be separated. At least in a meaningful way. You are a dull blade. Try reading for once and simply look up the definitions in a pocket dictionary.
Instead of talking about "Mexican" or even "illegal immigrants" we should be talking about worker's rights.Yeah..that would be convenient for you. LOL. Instead of talking about the elephant in the room, let's talk about the weather... Nice Try.
You are ignoring that these people come here to workRight, that's why one of my central tenets is "They are stealing jobs". That's because I forget they come here to work. Lausten...you resorting to your usual circular tactics now. Goodbye and good luck. I'm thinking you must be one of these illegals...I can understand your point of view.
You are ignoring that these people come here to workRight, that's why one of my central tenets is "They are stealing jobs". That's because I forget they come here to work. Lausten...you resorting to your usual circular tactics now. Goodbye and good luck. I'm thinking you must be one of these illegals...I can understand your point of view. A lot of things have been said in this thread about what affect undocumented workers have on the economy. I don't keep track everyone's exact words. Maybe, in your case, I should have added, "and there are jobs for them". Have you walked into a fast food restaurant lately and noticed the sign that says, "walk-in interviews today 3-6pm". Have you been to an amusement park and noticed all the foreign accents from the people who they have to import to fill the jobs? Do you know any young Americans who are aspiring to be migrant farm workers? If you live here, and have some family, you can choose not to work, not to take those crappy jobs. If you live in Guatemala, you don't have choices like that. This is not a problem of the US economy being fine and others are wrong, this a problem with the global economy. Isolationism won't solve it. I'm not changing the topic, I'm looking for solutions that don't involve letting children die because of where they happen to be born.
This is not a problem of the US economy being fine and others are wrong, this a problem with the global economy. Isolationism won't solve it. I'm not changing the topic, I'm looking for solutions that don't involve letting children die because of where they happen to be born.Some of the problems with The United States and other nations is in part due to the Global Economy. The United States is probably the least isolationist Nation on Earth right now. In so many ways, both good and bad. The US is a nation of immigrants. It always has been and it always will be. That being said, there is no doubt that illegal immigration is a problem-an objective, logistical, social/economic problem for the US. Experts from just about all sides of the spectrum agree on this. The only folks who would not agree on this is the narrow band of Green-One World Leftists. While I completely empathize with their viewpoints, I am one of the many ideological stands that says a sensible, pragmatic approach must be made to the problem of illegal immigration. This spectrum of ideological stands runs the gamut from-hard conservatives, GOP, Dems, Libertarians, Independents, Average Joes and Janes etc. It is by it's very nature a problem. I had no idea that this Illegal Immigration problem was about "letting children die because of where they happen to be born." Hyperbole Lausten, Hyperbole...
It is by it's very nature a problem. I had no idea that this Illegal Immigration problem was about "letting children die because of where they happen to be born." Hyperbole Lausten, Hyperbole...I use language like that because you have offered nothing else. Here, you just list a bunch of names of groups and say there is agreement. You say "simple and pragmatic" and say nothing about what you are actually suggesting. Duh, there is some sort of problem when children are wandering around in the desert alone. And what exactly is that problem? Are they taking our jobs? Not my job certainly, unless some of those kids have computer degrees. If you want to take my recognition that we live in a world economy, where everything I do has some potential to affect others very far away, and call that lefty/liberal/kumbaya, fine, but you're not saying anything substantial when you do that. If you want to rant about some mythical jobs disappearing and blaming certain nationalities for it, then I assume you don't care about some of the people who are part of your world.
I use language like that because you have offered nothing else. Here, you just list a bunch of names of groups and say there is agreement. You say "simple and pragmatic" and say nothing about what you are actually suggesting.You must be a little confused, or in the dark. Illegal Immigration is one of the main topics of Political discourse in the US. Please refer to this discourse for the relevant talking points. There's currently lawmakers trying to wrest a solution to the problem on both sides of the issue. States are passing laws all over the place concerning the problem. Refer to your local newspaper from time to time for a full account. Polls show the majority of Americans are against illegal immigration. Was there anything else?
I use language like that because you have offered nothing else. Here, you just list a bunch of names of groups and say there is agreement. You say "simple and pragmatic" and say nothing about what you are actually suggesting.You must be a little confused, or in the dark. Illegal Immigration is one of the main topics of Political discourse in the US. Please refer to this discourse for the relevant talking points. There's currently lawmakers trying to wrest a solution to the problem on both sides of the issue. States are passing laws all over the place concerning the problem. Refer to your local newspaper from time to time for a full account. Polls show the majority of Americans are against illegal immigration. Was there anything else? I already cited 3 articles. Here's a poll that doesn't really support your statement.]Seems we're pretty divided on this issue. Seems you are telling me to do the very thing I was asking of you. Difference is, I've already done it. And, polls only show what average Americans think. What I've been saying is, people who benefit from this situation want them to think that the problem is border patrol and greedy Mexicans. They want us fighting with each other and not against them. And if you don't think they have the power to affect how people think, then you don't believe this stat from the linked poll
The survey found that “the most powerful independent predictor" of people’s opposition to citizenship for illegal immigrants is whether they say they rely on Fox News as their most trusted source of information on politics and current events.
And, polls only show what average Americans think.I'm only interested in what Average Americans think.
The survey found that “the most powerful independent predictor" of people’s opposition to citizenship for illegal immigrants is whether they say they rely on Fox News as their most trusted source of information on politics and current events.
So? What’s that mean?
The few people who have expressed their opposition to illegal immigration here are not Fox News viewers.
Does that mean that all the people who view Fox News, and are against illegal immigration are wrong because they watch Fox News?
What other bits of hyperbole do you have Lausten? Any more red herrings?