And that’s reason to kill them? I don’t agree.The rioters violently attacked Rittenhouse first.
@thatoneguy Not all protesters rioted and/or looted. Why is your answer always violence? Violence doesn’t solve anything and people with guns are NOT fine people. They are terrorists IMHO and should be treated as such. I don’t trust anyone with a gun, not even cops.
@thatoneguy it’s not a reason to kill.
The rioters violently attacked Rittenhouse first. -- oneguyI guess you missed the links I put up.
Please help me to understand your objection. -- SreeHelp me understand what it is you don't understand. You said they must conform to their world, based on skin color. What definition of racism doesn't that fit?
mriana asks oneguy: "Why is your answer always violence?"His answer with the Korean Roof vigilantes video is not JUST violence, it is violence accompanied by snazzy exciting cover music.
You need a hook to sucker in some impressionable young men, like the Ritt, who are looking for glory and an adrenaline rush.
Help me understand what it is you don’t understand.The replies from @mraina (#334023) and @timb (#334015) were helpful in giving me a peek at their moral matrices. They view me, and Trump, as racist and hate us for it. We are not talking about blacks accusing whites as racist here. This is a case of whites condemning whites as racist. And this is the only political divide in America. Blacks, and other minorities, are just props, excuses for social revolution. This is my take.
You said they must conform to their world, based on skin color. What definition of racism doesn’t that fit?Apparently, the phrase “white man’s world” is offensive. My big toe could also be an offensive term to use if I am not sensitive to the feelings of the other toes on my feet. Is this why we are tearing down statues and defunding the police? Where are you folks heading?
This is a case of whites condemning whites as racist.
Blacks, and other minorities, are just props, excuses for social revolution. This is my take.
Please spare me! You have no idea because your family isn’t even 1/2 black or even a mix of Black, white, and Native American. You do not get it. My sons are NOT props and you haven’t even walked a mile in a mother’s shoes, much less one who is a minority family. You also have no idea what it’s like growing up in a Native American family (grandmother was 1/2) where you are told outside this house you are white. In other words, except maybe in summer, most of us could pass for white, so we had to pass for white. You have no idea what it’s like to be part of a minority group and I refuse to lie about my ancestry. I am also proud of my sons too, who both strive in their own ways for civil rights. I support my older son organizing some of the protests of BLM and ALL of them have been peaceful. Not a one of them have led to looting or violence nor was he a prop.
Apparently, the phrase “white man’s world” is offensive.
It’s offensive because it perpetuates the selfishness of the white man, as well as his destruction of whole groups of people. You demand that people conform to the “white man’s world” is perpetuation of things like Carlisle Schools, which abused Native children for even speaking their native tongue. The attempted genocide of the Native Americans, which was just as bad if not worse than Hitler’s genocide of the Jews, and the enslavement of Natives (unsuccessfully) and of Africans. White people were not here first, but they have destroyed many groups of people, especially their culture, just because of their hate, prejudices, force immigration and emigration of people, and genocide. I had ancestors who jumped off the Trail of Tears and into the Ozark Woods, marrying those who lived in the woods, just to escape the worst of the deadly trail.
Is this why we are tearing down statues and defunding the police? Where are you folks heading?
You have not listen to anything have you? You are stuck in your little ivory tower, with your fingers in your ears and your eyes covered. The idea is to appropriately train police, not just a 6 month training, but actual education. Sending out social workers or other appropriate persons, when police are not necessary. There are other things involved in this, but you misunderstand the “defund” in this case. As for the statues, why glorify slavery? Why not glorify Sherman who burned the South, causing the North to win and the Union to stay intact? Sherman was a military genius. Why not glorify Harriet Tubman, Sacagawea, and other women? Why not give back Mt. Rushmore, which was sacred land, to the Native Americans- of course, they won’t destroy the carvings, because that would destroy the sacred land more, but they’d have some of their land back. No, you want to continue forced assimilation and destruction of cultures and human beings, as well as perpetuate a cruel and brutal history against those who are not white or all white.
His answer with the Korean Roof vigilantes video is not JUST violence, it is violence accompanied by snazzy exciting cover music.You need a hook to sucker in some impressionable young men, like the Ritt, who are looking for glory and an adrenaline rush.
Yeah, it’s the glorification of violence. The video doesn’t do anything for me and it’s not at all what is happening in the States.
Is this why we are tearing down statues and defunding the police? Where are you folks heading? -- SreeThe first part of your answer wasn't really an address to my question.
This one is twisting words. Police and communities have been working on reforms since I was aware of politics and no doubt before that, so that’s more than 60 years. Police themselves complain about being the ones who are charged with breaking up an argument between a husband and wife. They would love to have some funds go to a social worker who could join them on those calls. But the word “defund” got used and now people like you want it to mean something it doesn’t.
Tearing down statues was also being discussed from the day they went up. They were funded by racist organizations who had a view of their southern ancestry that was never true. But decades of trying to get our public spaces to reflect the history accurately failed, and then they just started killing people or throwing them in jail, so pent up anger of generations was finally unleashed. This is a historic pattern that is well known by people like Mitch McConnell and William Barr. They know they can manipulate the narrative to make it look like those people are just thugs who have nothing real to contribute. Truth is, the generals from 1863 who owned slaves are the ones who had nothing to contribute. We defeated that ancient thinking back then, but ideas can’t actually be killed, they have to be re-learned generation after generation.
The first part of your answer wasn’t really an address to my question.And why not? I explained very clearly that responses from @mriana and @timb clarified, for me, where they were coming from with regard to their take on racism. They are not blacks and, therefore, not targets of racial hatred and injustice purportedly suffered by the black victims in present-day USA. Yet, for some reason, they have taken on the role of defenders of perceived victims of alleged white antagonism, an inborn trait of all white people. This trait is like original sin from which blessed whites are cleansed by the baptismal waters of liberal progressivism in which they are now immersed.
This one is twisting words. Police and communities have been working on reforms since I was aware of politics and no doubt before that, so that’s more than 60 years. Police themselves complain about being the ones who are charged with breaking up an argument between a husband and wife. They would love to have some funds go to a social worker who could join them on those calls. But the word “defund” got used and now people like you want it to mean something it doesn’t.Get real. Police don’t break up domestic arguments when they answer 911 calls from frantic women, black or white. Teenage boys have been known to gun down their abusive fathers to stop them from hurting their moms. No woman calls the cops to settle an argument, with a spouse or boyfriend, that can be resolved by a counselor or social worker if she can’t throw the bastard out of her house in the first place. It took seven bullets from a police officer to stop Jacob Blake. Think about it.
Defund the police is a cop-out. If we were a society of nice people, we wouldn’t need the law let alone law enforcers armed to kill. We are brutal animals beneath our skins. It just that some of us manage to tame the beast and some can’t or won’t.
Tearing down statues was also being discussed from the day they went up. They were funded by racist organizations who had a view of their southern ancestry that was never true. But decades of trying to get our public spaces to reflect the history accurately failed, and then they just started killing people or throwing them in jail, so pent up anger of generations was finally unleashed. This is a historic pattern that is well known by people like Mitch McConnell and William Barr. They know they can manipulate the narrative to make it look like those people are just thugs who have nothing real to contribute. Truth is, the generals from 1863 who owned slaves are the ones who had nothing to contribute. We defeated that ancient thinking back then, but ideas can’t actually be killed, they have to be re-learned generation after generation.Come on, Lausten. How did you get this way? Why go back to 1863 to dig up psychological hurts to nurse? Don’t you have enough in your own life as it is? Perhaps, you need a nasty bout of shingles to get you rooted in reality. Our nation of 340 million has a ton of real and present issues for our government to deal with just to keep as many people housed, clothed, and fed. Tearing down statues takes time and money we can ill afford. Why not pass a bill to stop all statue-building (no more Presidential Museums!) from here on in and leave all that junk we have erected stay as is and ignore them. Is that good?
Dude, again, here is a direct quote from you
"Black lives matter only when black lives strive to be better in a white man’s world."As Lausten said, "What definition of racism doesn’t that fit?" And don't try the following BS line again:
"My big toe could also be an offensive term to use if I am not sensitive to the feelings of the other toes on my feet."If you happen to make statements that seem derogatory to your toes, or biased in favor of your big toe, I doubt that anyone will care.
Now you ask where the BLM is heading. It is heading for a nation in which systematic injustice based on race and economic standing is de-constructed.
Hell the cops can be better funded than ever, that’s fine, as long as NONE of them kill black and poor people unnecessarily, or support their peers who do. And as long as, if some do kill black and poor people unnecessarily, there are no systematic protection of those cops, involved, beyond the rights of any accused person.
They are not blacks and, therefore, not targets of racial hatred and injustice purportedly suffered by the black victims in present-day USA.
ROFLMAO! Really? You think just because I’m white I’m not a target? Excuse me. I had two babies who are 1/2 Black. You’re so naive to think I was not ever a target. You have not idea how much crap white male assholes have given me- everything from n-lover to threats of harm. My sons and I have suffered discrimination together. Maybe you should try dating someone who’s Black and see what happens. Oh wait, you’re a white male, so dating a Black girl won’t have the same affect.
You have not idea how much crap white male assholes have given me- everything from n-lover to threats of harm.I believe you. I did say that you live in a bad world. Nasty people come in all skin colors. The lower you are on the economic ladder, the more nasty people get in your way to wreck your day. There is no racism among the rich. Everybody loves Oprah.
@sree I don’t live in a bad world, anymore than you do. Dumba$$es exist in our world and we share the same world and at all economic levels. To be honest, the higher up on the economic level on is, the dumber and nastier one becomes, due to greed and racism. What you are too ignorant to realize is that the rich ARE racist. Very racist. For a long time, Jews and Blacks were not welcome in their country clubs and those that are there today are “tokens”. That’s racism. And not everyone loves Oprah, anymore than everyone loves Barbra.
Some may find what Angela Davis has to say:
@timb When you say: “The protest chant “Black Lives Matter” does not negate or discount the truism that “All Lives Matter”, but the truism in response to the protest DOES discount the protest, in the context of the social realities for black Americans in our society.” my response is that somebody should have come up with a better slogan. There are a whole bunch of problems with it, not just that it leaves out everyone else but “blacks”. The solution to racism isn’t to further entrench the idea that any particular race should be given special treatment, and that’s exactly what that slogan does, even if it never intended to do so. What would be a better one? I’m not sure. The two key issues seem to be violence and justice. Perhaps a crowd of black protesters holding signs that say “Peace And Justice”? However given the backlash, it seems there are a lot of black lives focused on anything but peace and justice, and they’re not helping anyone, including themselves.
When you say: “The protest chant “Black Lives Matter” does not negate or discount the truism that “All Lives Matter”, but the truism in response to the protest DOES discount the protest, in the context of the social realities for black Americans in our society.” my response is that somebody should have come up with a better slogan. There are a whole bunch of problems with it, not just that it leaves out everyone else but “blacks”.Sorry the slogan makes you uncomfortable. It does NOT leave everyone else out but blacks. It specifies blacks, because they tend to be the ones whose lives are being destroyed.
The solution to racism isn’t to further entrench the idea that any particular race should be given special treatment, and that’s exactly what that slogan does, even if it never intended to do so."Black Lives Matter" does not exhort special treatment. It calls for fair and just and equal treatment. If you won't even admit that there is systemic racism, that is preventing fairness and equal justice, then you sure as hell aren't going to be able to fix it.
The injustice has gone on and on and on and on and on throughout our history, with some ebb and flow in regard to the magnitude of the injustice for the entire history of our nation. Why would blacks think it will easily be dealt with now? They wouldn’t.
Look at the history of Civil Rights advances that we HAVE had. Were the black demonstrators, in the 60’s politely carry signs that said “Peace and Justice”? Maybe some did, but that was overshadowed by firehoses trained on black kids. Dogs used to viciously attack black demonstrators. Cops in riot gear beating the crap out of black demonstrators. Not to mention the atrocities against blacks (and Jews that tried to help them) that took place on the boundaries of our society back then.
Plain old “Peace” has not resulted in blacks overcoming the systemic racism that inculcates our society, even today.
Peace as usual will not ever result in the overcoming of racial bias in our legal system, unless people like you, believer, come to realize that the problem is systemic and must be addressed as such.