We can empathize without promoting these disorders as something normal.
Sounds very speculative. Which masterpieces were creating by trans artists?
That’s easy for you to say.
Have you ever tried to find out?
LGBTQ Individuals and Academics of the Renaissance Period
. . . Given its focus on arts and culture, it is perhaps no surprise that the LGBTQ community was active during this time. This occurred despite the norms of society which continued to be shaped by religious belief and were generally averse to homosexuality. Nevertheless, wealthy cities were renowned for their practice of same-sex love, and artists such as Leonardo Da Vinci and Buonarroti Michelangelo gave the world images with homoerotic expression, as did George Frederic Handel in music and Sir Philip Sidney in poetry. Homosexuality became a synonym for a great civilization and open-mindedness in cosmopolitan areas. Coincidentally, it was also the period of the creation of the private bedroom, which allowed more privacy and intimate relations to develop.
There are several contemporary expert scholars of the LGBTQ presence in the Renaissance. Most notable are Alan Bray of Great Britain (who shot to fame with his definitive book on the subject, ‘Homosexuality in Renaissance England’ (1982)) and Gary Ferguson of the United States.
Simply click on their names to read their fascinating biographies:
. . . BCE dates you learned in history class and beyond those modern white male-centered cisgender gay pride movements you may have read about. Welcome to Queer Art History.
Casey Hoke, Founder
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You know google is an amazing tool.
Next time you ask a gotcha question,
why not do some judicious googling, you’d be amazed at all you can learn.
I sure have learned a bunch in the past few minutes, who’d a thought so much research and evidence on the topic has been amassed in the past decades. Guess I never stopped to look, thanks for the nudge.
Now can you please think about this issue from a little more from the individual human side of things
and not so much the political battle grounds?
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How about Leonardo Da Vinci?
Gender in art history | 7 artists breaking gender stereotypes since 1600
There’s a twisting of words here that points straight at the culture wars. I can see it in “indoctrination” versus “normal”. I’m convinced that normal for me is what I was raised to believe was normal. Others think I was being indoctrinated into believing gay boys are weak, and not as fit as us “normal” kids. Later I understood this better and changed how I think about it, and some others thought I was being indoctrinated by the liberal system in higher education.
Facts and rational thinking play a part in this, but each person must get to a place where they can accept those facts. The personality that forms when we are in our teen years has some amazing staying power. We continue to confirm those biases by remembering experiences that support them and ignoring or forgetting those that don’t. We form alliances to support each other in keeping our version of reality in place. Questioning what is “normal” is part of maturing, of taking on the responsibilities of adulthood. We’re getting better at it, but I’m not sure if it’s fast enough.
Some of those are gay or bi, none were trans. And Da Vici might have been gay.
Da Vinci might have been gay. That’s all we can say about his personal life. And calling renaissance art "homoerotic’ is not any kind of answer.
The more I think about this, the more absurd the idea of being “anti-trans” becomes.
I don’t know what we can find in secret diaries or confessions of people hundreds of years ago, but I’m sure they didn’t conceive of gender the way we do. That doesn’t make them right and us wrong, any more than they were right about how they felt about slavery.
Here’s the question that got me thinking about the silliness of believing transgender as some sort of fad. Did doctors start playing around and figure out they could alter genitalia, then they went looking for someone to try it out? Or were there people who reported psychologically feeling like one gender, but parts of their body were different? And I say parts, because genitals, DNA, hormones, attractions, and feelings can be mixed in many possible combinations, making it difficult to assign gender.
Same for gender dysphoria. Were children told they could decide their gender, then they got all confused about it or were people keeping those feelings to themselves because of the obvious consequences and it has only become better known and discussed in this more enlightened age?
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Why do you believe this? Ancient civilizations recorded their views about gender and it is pretty much the same as the average modern view.
I don’t know of anyone claiming transgenders do not exist. The problem is that their existence has an outsize effect on social policies.
And is that their “FAULT” or of social policies?
How do you know this? Have you spoken to anyone in an Ancient Civilization?
Some cultures, such as Native Americans, are a little more accepting than most groups and find it part of nature.
What do you mean it’s not any kind of answer. Just because you don’t want to acknowledge that this one percent of biologically ambiguous humans has existed throughout history?
What “kind of answer” do you want?
Oh so for you this is about finding some “average view” while disregarding all who must exist outside of that “average view.”
Why is this all some simplistic political game for you?
Do your religiosity demand it, is it God Command?
All without the slightest consider, or compassion, for the individual humans who must deal with the reality of their own “god given” biology?
PS.
https://www.livius.org/articles/concept/greek-homosexuality/
I reckon that’s why the Right Wingers need to ban books. Ignorance is bliss!
… But there was a different time, when gays and lesbians were not only accepted in Native communities but, in some cases, revered because they embodied the “two spirits:” male and female.
The Omaha called two-spirited tribal members “mexoga.” The Lakota called them “winkte.” And the Navajo used the word “nadleehe.” …
This is unfortunately the view held by many, enough to keep the system in place that now has a minority ruling this country. I believe it because I know enough about history to know that what we have as source documents are the ones that were preserved by patriarchy that lacked scientific methods and a philosophy of compassion. We know there were counter opinions because we see their names referred to in opinions of royalty and religious leadership. Sometimes we see partial arguments, but they are presented by those arguing against them. I believe this because I know what literacy rates were at the time. The odds that the 1% educated class was out interviewing and getting to know people with ideas about gender that contradicted their scripture are extremely low. Plus, what did survive is not discussed in schools.
I believe it, because we can still see how powerful people use this kind of cherry-picking of historical writings to justify something like overturning Roe vs Wade. Alito found men throughout history supporting laws against abortion and ignored any historical context of women not having the power to voice their opinion. What you and Alito call the “modern view”, I call outdated ideas based on ancient authors who didn’t know what they were talking about.
.
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Claiming that the history we know is wrong and there is some other history out there, but it’s being suppressed is textbook crackpot thinking.
We have their literature. It provides a view into their world.
It’s the fault of liberals making a pet project of these peoples.
Nononono!.. Don’t you dare to even think it.
It’s the fault of the religious and ignorant people that hunt them and kill them, because they are “cursed” by, instead of creations of God .
Liberals come to their rescue!i
I wanted an answer to Write4Us claim that many great artists of the past were transgender.
Your source was just an opinion piece about how renaissance art is supposedly gay because of male nudes – a nonsensical idea by the way. It says nothing about those artists being transgender.
[quote=“thatoneguy, post:57, topic:10200”]
Your source was just an opinion piece about how renaissance art is supposedly gay because of male nudes – a nonsensical idea by the way. It says nothing about those artists being transgender.
You don’t read the links do you? The links I provided are publications by “knowledgeable” historians.
Are you a knowledgeable historian or just prejudiced?
If someone is prejudiced against a particular group, they have an unreasonable dislike of them .
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/prejudiced#
I was talking about LBGTQ in general. All of them are being persecuted, just for having different gender identification. Don’t parse, when it comes to an entire class of people that are being prejudiced against.
Homoerotic art of any age is a definitive answer. Are you straight?
If you are, would you ever create a work of homoerotic art?
AFAIK, all homoerotic art was created by a person of LGBTQ orientation, and I am not talking about porno, which is not art.
You are responding to my response to CitizensChallenge. As for your links, they are from Ranker and some blogs. Absolutely not knowledgeable historians.
Male nudes in art are not automatically homoerotic. Nobody thinks that besides some gays with wild imaginations.