When ideological fundamentalism consumes you.

Sorry Lois, I'm no mood to 'excuse' anyone. This is a collective failure at least 20 (actually more like 40) years in the making.
Well you're correct there. You just didn't seem to have the ability to see where that would lead to. Rather you didn't recognize the real failure. You were too busy "thinking Globally and acting Locally".
I tried my damned best
http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com http://amendment69-info-kiosk.blogspot.com
and no one gives a flying fuck about any of the ideas I've tried arguing or bringing to the surface. Obviously it wasn't my damned best. Too many day to day obligations and distractions kept me from driving it home doing the kind of work I'm capable of if only I were given the freedom of time to devote to it. Bottomline is it wasn't enough and I along with all the rest of not-near-enough efforts that added to one huge failure of vision and communication.
Jesus....really? This is one of my faves from you CC. It speaks for itself. :)
Maybe some failures were more egregious than others, but here we in the shit storm and the DNC, nor from what I can does anyone else, has a clue what to do about it. So now - how to confront these absolutist rightwing pigs with egos so big they mistake them for God?
Just more hatred and ideological fundamentalism.
And CFI with organization and meetings all over, involving who knows how many, Yet this international blog is a dead cemetery with a few lonely souls wandering around trying to keep it from totally folding and dreaming of some good conversation.
Well you're the biggest, most voluminous and most prolific person on here. I can't imagine why more people aren't stopping by to engage you in good conversation CC? I don't get it either. :roll:
What's the point of proclaiming innocence? - This shit show is going to turn out worse than any one cares to image, because we are always too busy thinking positive and so fucking shallow I could puke.
Stop using such emotional, caustic swear words. It's ugly. Start really asking yourself what is s wrong with America First. No really, at the heart of it, what is wrong with that idea? Especially as stated from someone who is the leader of America. Seems to me to be completely logical. And in perfect keeping with the stated goals of the vast majority of leaders of every nation since the beginning of time. You don't want America first? I don't understand? Don't you live here?

I wanted to keep this in the same thread it originated from but it kept rejecting it as spam.
I tried removing CC’s links but that didn’t work either.
I guess this makes it’s own thread all the same.
This is what happens when someone becomes so ideologically consumed that they start thinking irrationally.
We see CC here stating that “I” tried to change the outcome. “I” failed. “I” couldn’t stop it from happening.
CC you have to stop this. These are just everyday political events. It’s not the end of the world.
You have to stop dwelling in this doom and gloom scenario. You’re obsessed with absolutist ideals and Armageddon type fears.
I believe that you are receiving unhealthy doses of internet news and blogs and information age white noise.
It’s apparent in how you reflect it back upon this forum. Constantly providing links to every corner of the internet.
A never ending stream of links to blogs and news outlets that are probably starting to form the basis for your psyche.
It’s not good for you.

Constantly providing links to every corner of the internet. A never ending stream of links to blogs and news outlets that are probably starting to form the basis for your psyche. It's not good for you.
Says the 9/11 Truther.
Constantly providing links to every corner of the internet. A never ending stream of links to blogs and news outlets that are probably starting to form the basis for your psyche. It's not good for you.
Says the 9/11 Truther. Who's a 9/11 Truther? :lol: You have to resort to making things up now Darron? You're smoking too much marijuana Darron. It's clouding your memory.
Especially as stated from someone who is the leader of America.
You mean the proud pussy grabber? Really? The Office of the President means something. I mean if Bush jr. wasn't bad enough. But, at least he had an awareness and respect for the Office and an inkling of what it meant to the world. This Trump is a narcissistic avaricious rich-kid. He has no compassion, no depth beyond business, no interest in other people or the world beyond his control. That may be successful business, but not a President of the once great and united USA. Perhaps the new Corporation of Amerika, but not the America I know and love with an immigrant’s deep appreciation - as opposed to the alt-rights sense of exceptionalism and entitlement. Trump embraces stupid policies that - like our little Shock’n Awe profiteering stunt - promise yet more dimensions of global outrage and vengeance lust. In your world all there is, is contrived factionalism for political gain. V, allow me to make a couple predictions. This Administration will end very badly for all involved. We can check back with each other in a couple years. Oh yeah, there’s always the physical world that you dismiss with such thoughtless ease. Weather is going to be inflicting increasing damages on every f’n aspect of our global society, all those things that keeps it humming, but that most take for granted. Instead of preparing for that onrushing reality, we continue pouring endless treasure and lives into contrived conflicts, that guarantee more escalation of conflict, that allows us to continue forcing the cycle of terror upon others as well as ourselves. Trump has nothing but contempt for the government and anyone who believes in it. He continues to show that his awareness does not extend beyond his narcissism. You want me to respect such a creature??? Since a child I was actively challenged with the quintessential question of WWII: “How could those good German people have fallen into such depravity?" We grew up bilingual and and bi-cultural and we spent our pre-teens visiting the all German films Davis Theater regularly (our “formal German lessons") and it included German speaking news reels about Europe/Russian. Okay I was just a kid, but I was plugged in and attentive and trying to digest it. It’s never left me. From 21 to 24 I lived in Germany and Switzerland working restaurants, but also including a five week gig in a metzgerei, or check out Susten Pass, I spent summer of ’76 up there. F’n awesome dude, but these days my heart breaks when I see pictures of where those glaciers are today. I could speak the language so I got to talk and learn about the world from their perspective. It was illuminating. Never realized how insulated we were her in USA. Perhaps that’s why I’ve been more aware and terrified of the Trump thing from the gitgo. I’ve thought about why those good German citizens turned into such barbarians and I've been an attentive observer of “propaganda" and what goes on in the head of people since the 60s. I was as disillusioned at the silly left with their 30 hr work for 40 hr pay as you must have been. So don't paint me with that brush. I've also been aware of Breitbart unconscionable dependence on a narrative of lies for years now, thanks to my AGW reading. In any event, it’s been my fears, more than any reassurances or promises, that keep coming to fruition, so excuse me for feeling less restrained at this point. _________________________________________________________
Start really asking yourself what is wrong with America First. No really, at the heart of it.
For starters what’s it even mean? America First? Which America First? If you are talking about the nation USA, America is a multi-cultural place. It’s also a diverse place from coastal lands to mountains, fields and forests, each owning its own character. Are we talking about all of those? Or do you have any special America in mind? Also in this modern age of a shrinking globe and increasing population why are you wanting to turn all of them into our enemies? As for all those aliens the Alt-right is so concerned about,... WHY don't you folks go after the businesses that created this systems that must be fed by alien workers? Beyond that, sure USA has given great things to the world, but don’t kid yourself, we have also appropriated great things from the rest of the world to enhance our own lives here within the USA. What's wrong with sharing some? Here's a bonus for you V, my list of things that will guarantee we continue falling from the First and foremost nation status we used to hold wth such pride: Acceptance that maximizing profits and minimizing expenditures is the most important thing in business. The Profits Über Alles mentality has given us an obscenely overpriced, under-delivering and pretty near busted medical system. (that happened way before Obama.) The Profits Uber Alles has led to obscenely over large buildings and over expensive homes, with extravagantly wasteful infrastructure - plumbing, heating, electrical. and so on. The adulation of the ego and estrangement from community. The blurring between Personal Truths and Universal Truths. The outrageous practice of believing petty human texts are the word of God and even worse, when they mistake one’s own Ego for God. The attitude that self-interest is all that matters in the world. The loss of appreciation for enlighten self interest. That would be, me, me, me first, me first. Yeah, it does sound like kindergarten doesn't it. :smirk:

http://www.schmeissfliege.de/Sustenpass-S2-E37.htm
:coolsmile:

https://www.ricardo.ch/kaufen/sammeln-und-seltenes/ansichtskarten-schweiz/bern/gelaufen/sustenpass-restaurant-susten-kulm-1966/v/an858420844/
That’s where I learned to dice the finest onions you ever did see, and to slice translucent lemons and tomatoes.
Not to mention stay on a few more days after the season was over to help rebuild the diesel engine that ran the generator all summer.
Did I mention it was a fantastic adventure filled time. :cheese:

CC there’s nothing there to discuss.
What I read there was the quintessential Western Fairy tale of privileged, sanctimonious values from on high.
The Great Modern Western Liberal White Man speaking from on high about the moral obligations of a Nation that you seem
to think you have earned all of the clout for, of which you will see fit to spend accordingly.
You also repeatedly mis-characterize me. Probably mostly due to confirmation bias and also an inability to hear past your own bloviation.
The old adage, “While the other is talking you’re only thinking about what you’re going to say next.”
Like I said, you’re consumed with ideological fundamentalism.
You are blurring the lines between your own so-called Personal Truths and Universal Truths.
These are the reasons why I won’t engage in serious discussions with you.
The closest you came to piquing my interest was in the very first lines you wrote in your large quote from above.
The one where I give you half credit for being correct. The “past 40 years remark.”
But you’ve been duped. You’re thinking that those policies weren’t implemented strongly enough. That they stagnated and weren’t effectively
politically nurtured.
What you fail to see on a profound level, a mechanical level is that those policies are the reasons we find ourselves in the current situation.
Not just here in the US either.
And that’s also not to say that another alternate path would not have led to other conundrums of equal distress.
But we didn’t go down that alternate reality-we went down this one.

CC there's nothing there to discuss.{That's why you've written 260 words ;-) } What I read there was the quintessential Western Fairy tale of privileged, sanctimonious values from on high. The Great Modern Western Liberal White Man speaking from on high about the moral obligations of a Nation that you seem to think you have earned all of the clout for, of which you will see fit to spend accordingly.
What the f are you talking about? Expecting our President to appreciate the difference between self-serving fiction and real facts? What has that notion of Truth become a privileged western fairy tale now?
You also repeatedly mis-characterize me. Probably mostly due to confirmation bias and also an inability to hear past your own bloviation. The old adage, "While the other is talking you're only thinking about what you're going to say next."
I would hope I mis-characterize you, nevertheless, my characterizations are based on the consistently shallow drive-by quality of your comments.
Like I said, you're consumed with ideological fundamentalism. You are blurring the lines between your own so-called Personal Truths and Universal Truths.
What that? Religion and faith belongs under Personal Truths and that Universal Truths are the purview of science and informed consensus and is always open to refinement as more evidence comes in. Please do explain what lines I blur.
These are the reasons why I won't engage in serious discussions with you.
I haven’t seen you engage in “serious" discussion with anyone around here. You’re too busy making it up yourself. At least I can respond to your actual words, instead this rambling that by passes my words, and injects your biased narrative for both sides of the argument.
The closest you came to piquing my interest was in the very first lines you wrote in your large quote from above. The one where I give you half credit for being correct. The "past 40 years remark." But you've been duped. You're thinking that those policies weren't implemented strongly enough. That they stagnated and weren't effectively politically nurtured.
Again what the f are you talking about, what policies, implemented when. Where have I talked about “policies". And you preach at me for making it up as I as go along :lol:
What you fail to see on a profound level, a mechanical level is that those policies are the reasons we find ourselves in the current situation.
What policies??? What does recognizing the difference between Personal Truths and Universal Truths have to do with policies?
Not just here in the US either. And that's also not to say that another alternate path would not have led to other conundrums of equal distress. But we didn't go down that alternate reality-we went down this one.
We sure didn't and it’s doomed our global society to a miserable end. Hell, the way we’re going full speed ahead with the destruction of our biosphere and the heaping up of ever more atmospheric insulation - we’re guaranteeing maximum biosphere damage and maximum warming. Rather than a more measured pace that could have given humanity a shot, once the first shocks subsided, but that would have required an awakening that didn’t and ain’t going to happen. I have no delusions about that. We could have made a difference had we collectively taken the science seriously back in the 70s and 80s and absorbed those lessons on a visceral personal level. It would have been an amazing thing to embrace, moderation that is. Then rational policies would have grown from that futile ground. Sort of like the Manhattan Project - when there’s a will and common understanding of the threat and the goal its amazing what people can achieve. Instead we Hollywoodized everyone's expectations. It's simple math of reality and it includes cumulative compounding interest and cascading consequences. The media/powerpolitical campaign of confusion and slander like none other - dedicated to stupefying and confusing everyone regarding serious climate science. Intend on paralyzing all proactive approaches to dealing with the physical reality of what we were doing to the biosphere we depend on for everything. It was way the hell too successful. V, you'd like to dismiss all that up there as “quintessential Western Fairy tale of privileged, sanctimonious values" but it’s actually simply a clinical description of what happened. Added to that is the unavoidable extrapolation of the various trends of biosphere destruction along with the radical transition in weather and hot temps that we are at the very beginning of. There is no U-turn in sight. Things will happen with increasing tempo. Ignoring it doesn’t change it. I wish you could some up with something to show me I’m nuts. Got anything besides hot air? Unfortunately, I got Earth observations and I been paying attention. Not a one-sided biased distortion, the real deal as it being reported by thousands of observers from around the globe. If you know anything positive about our physical planet that indicates a stable biosphere, now's the time to produce it. I bet you can't. I know you can't. Prove me wrong.

Those pics got me reminiscing with my gal and I finally found an image I’ve been wanting to track down a long time.
So I’m going to finish tonight with fond memories of Susten Pass and all those nice Swiss girls.
The employee rooms were upstairs in big establishment (by the road that than goes through a tunnel before starting the descent on the north side),
They were very proper and wouldn’t think of giving me one of those rooms.
I had to room up and over the hill at the tiny original guest house at the pass itself, built back at the turn of the century.
See those timbers and rocks, those were cabled through the roof around main beams to hold down the roof during winter winds.
Smallest room I ever lived in, bed was shoved against the back wall, stretching my toes I could literally touch head to one wall and toes to the other,
and there was maybe three feet next to the bed.
But it was less then a hundred yards from the pass itself, with an awesome hanging glacier to the north.
And it was the coolest old place and hell how often does one get a chance like that. I loved it.
Even saw a huge section avalanche down close to a thousand feet before hitting bottom.
(although not the glaciers to the south, in this postcard, the glacier in the post card with the cows.)
Oh yeah, the cows. Learned to love steamed milk fresh from the cow. This Chicago boy never had that before. Though it wasn’t the last time.
Got myself into a tight pickle climbing up that mountain to the left there, but well beyond the image.
Too high(elevation), too exposed, scary as shit, then a tourist helicopter decides to buzz me a couple times.
Quite unnerving, as the full import of my situation was really soaking in.
Definitely one wrong move and that would have been it for me
I had gone way the hell further than I should have. The increasing slope can be deceptive, then it’s, what the …
Fortunately, the damned helicopter finally left me alone and I inched it back to terra firma.
But there was a good little distance when I could not have stopped even the slightest slip.
Like I said, I inched it back to terra firma with a sobering new found respect for my limitations and those mountains.

http://www.heimatsammlung.de/topo_unter/schweiz_ab_08/schweiz_12/ch_unter_bern_sustenpass.htm

Constantly providing links to every corner of the internet. A never ending stream of links to blogs and news outlets that are probably starting to form the basis for your psyche. It's not good for you.
Says the 9/11 Truther. Who's a 9/11 Truther? :lol: You have to resort to making things up now Darron? Oops. Got you confused with psikeyhacker for a while there. Psikey if you read this thread please accept my apology. Unlike Vyazma you at least post something intelligent now and then.
CC-{That’s why you’ve written 260 words wink }
Yeah that's your biggest sale in a long time. Even it was just further panning of your cognizant skills. But please continue with your tour of the mountains.
CC-{That’s why you’ve written 260 words wink }
Yeah that's your biggest sale in a long time. Even it was just further panning of your cognizant skills.
Hey don't forget this thread you started specially for me, [Edited to change color since blue is reserved for mod/admin comments. dougsmith -- Admin] I'm honored. :coolsmile:
But please continue with your tour of the mountains.
Hey cool. I got some pics I been thinking about getting posted You know, since I'm growing old, I'm aware my hard working days are limited, so I approach them with more gusto and thoughtful appreciation than most. And since you are trying to frame my personal beliefs for me, I figure I'd better speak up and share a little of my Personal Truths to balance the scales. Every job only has a few, or a single, proper way and many wrong ways to do the task at hand. I've always been into thinking about the process, watching myself and learning more as I go. Besides my upbringing, the chef's apprenticeship with it's nonstop stress on Mise en place (The act and process of become prepared and organized, including cleanliness (personal and work station) and also the mental prep required to successfully deal with the balls to the wall madness about to come at you. At least at a successful restaurant.). Then those decades in construction, turns out the same template works, organization, preparation, being aware on the job and learning from experience. I don't pretend to be great at it, I'm a bit chaotic, distracted, still I'm always thinking about it, particular when putting myself in harm's way. The safe way requires knowledge, experience and caring. Having that skinny camera in my pocket phone, I been taking a lot of pictures past couple years, makes for great documentation and it's fun being able to record some of the places I wind up. It's mountains you want? I got mountains, closer to home and from last month when I was called to do some snow and ice removal from roofs, without damaging the apartments. In fact, we needed to plywood over some lower level pop-outs to protect them from the ice buildup. In some inside corners icicles were as big as a guy's body. The place is another case study in why lowlanders should not be allowed to design structures for snow country. But, hey! If not for their carelessness, I wouldn't have this sort of work occasionally. Always good to check back in with the Pucker Factor once in a while. Put the days into a wonderful perspective. :-) Have I ever mentioned to you one of my strategies for survival has been to become capable of doing a great variety of work? Another Personal Truth of mine. I think it's important for me to spell it out in front of creeps who want to slander me because they don't have what it takes to confront my words in a constructive debate as opposed to their self-destructive political game. (and I'm certainly referring to more than my pal V)[/I] Cheers. ;-)

Folks let’s try to tone down the rhetoric here on all sides. These arguments are becoming trollish and personalized. Do recall that such tactics as these are against the rules. Thanks.

Folks let's try to tone down the rhetoric here on all sides. These arguments are becoming trollish and personalized. Do recall that such tactics as these are against the rules. Thanks.
Doug, with respect, I'm trying to keep it civil. But, bullies need to be stood up to sometimes. I've played on this merry-go-round too long. Any more, when someone comes at me trying to paint me as some clueless dweeb, trapped in a room living through his computer, or some other equally inane straw man - I will fight back with facts. Rather than let them dictate the dialogue I will speak up and get personal, not slanderous personal, bio personal. Share a little of who I really am. Doug, the entire public dialogue is going down in a tail spin and it's not because of admittedly often deluded liberals. They are not at fault for the dependence on slander and personal attacks to distract attention from the real issues we should be dealing with. But, they have acquiesced far too long. Time to speak truth to slander. I'm not the one that started this post.

Oops sorry about the color. Though I’d aimed for another one.
Green fits me better anyways. :cheese:

Sorry Lois, I'm no mood to 'excuse' anyone. This is a collective failure at least 20 (actually more like 40) years in the making.
Well you're correct there. You just didn't seem to have the ability to see where that would lead to. Rather you didn't recognize the real failure. You were too busy "thinking Globally and acting Locally". I have no idea what you are responding to here since the thread starts with this post.
Sorry Lois, I'm no mood to 'excuse' anyone. This is a collective failure at least 20 (actually more like 40) years in the making.
Well you're correct there. You just didn't seem to have the ability to see where that would lead to. Rather you didn't recognize the real failure. You were too busy "thinking Globally and acting Locally". I have no idea what you are responding to here since the thread starts with this post. Me neither, guess he's upset that I would be upset that we've allowed America to devolve to the point of electing someone like trump as our leader. gross as gross can be. :sick: I still wake up in shock sometimes, though like V points out, all the signs were there, but too few were not paying attention. I'm sorry Lois, but I sticking to my notion: the collective we, we were swept away by the Hollywood, illusion dreaming of endless riches and easy living. I remember the siren songs at the Museum of Science and Industry with all their nifty promises for tomorrow - that to me seemed hollow way back then. And now looking back I've been witness and know how utterly empty those promises and motivations were. So, while the enlightened crowd was going around all enlightened and enjoying all our independent smug lives, the reactionaries (Evangelical and extreme right-wing) were busy reinvigorating ranks and creating a myth for people to fall for and follow. Oh and V, no one ever did think globally hard enough for it to become more than a post card thought. Globally would have included understanding evolution and hydrology and biosphere and sense of stewardship and responsibility towards this planet that supplies all we depend on. While V might wants to label that "ideological" it's actually required "fundamentals" - at least if we had any interest in keeping this grand culture of ours going. But, what's done is done. What's coming is coming. And now thanks to Trump and his oligarchs, we're going to turn our country in a nastier divided place, one where constructive outcomes will be further out of reach than ever, and genuine troubles are only a few temper tantrums away. But back to basics and fundamental causes. I've long thought a society that idolized maximizing profits and bonuses - while minimizing expenditures and denying responsibility for externalities, above all else the way we have, that that was a road to destruction.

Sorry Doug, but here we have an excellent example of how utterly empty headed these Trump supporters are, I won’t mention any names.
But, I do know, and this comes from extensive first hand experience that they are great a slander, misrepresentation, lying, vilifying, etc.
But call them on defending or supporting or even to offer a rational explanation.
This is what you get, the sound of one hand clapping.
Fraudsters is as fraudsters do. :smirk:

This is not directed at anyone on this thread.
I have noticed in my own family and circle of close personal friends the effect’s of trump’s election. It is an order of magnitude in difference as compared to what was was present with gwb.
Viscerally I am repulsed by trump and his blatant hucksterism and frequent repeating of information which is demonstrably wrong. Fareed Zakaria, I believe, has correctly characterized him as Bullshitter in Chief.
What I try to keep in mind for myself, and remind my friends and family, is that when you are confronted with a bullshitter you cannot take much of what they say with the same seriousness as you would most others. That’s a difficult stance to maintain when talking about the current sitting POTUS, but I think it is applicable.
So instead of becoming ever more outraged at his latest incorrect tweet, I am trying to focus on the actual results of actions that are being taken and what the consequences are or might be.

Sorry Lois, I'm no mood to 'excuse' anyone. This is a collective failure at least 20 (actually more like 40) years in the making.
Well you're correct there. You just didn't seem to have the ability to see where that would lead to. Rather you didn't recognize the real failure. You were too busy "thinking Globally and acting Locally". I have no idea what you are responding to here since the thread starts with this post. Me neither, guess he's upset that I would be upset that we've allowed America to devolve to the point of electing someone like trump as our leader. gross as gross can be. :sick: I still wake up in shock sometimes, though like V points out, all the signs were there, but too few were not paying attention. I'm sorry Lois, but I sticking to my notion: the collective we, we were swept away by the Hollywood, illusion dreaming of endless riches and easy living. I remember the siren songs at the Museum of Science and Industry with all their nifty promises for tomorrow - that to me seemed hollow way back then. And now looking back I've been witness and know how utterly empty those promises and motivations were. So, while the enlightened crowd was going around all enlightened and enjoying all our independent smug lives, the reactionaries (Evangelical and extreme right-wing) were busy reinvigorating ranks and creating a myth for people to fall for and follow. Oh and V, no one ever did think globally hard enough for it to become more than a post card thought. Globally would have included understanding evolution and hydrology and biosphere and sense of stewardship and responsibility towards this planet that supplies all we depend on. While V might wants to label that "ideological" it's actually required "fundamentals" - at least if we had any interest in keeping this grand culture of ours going. But, what's done is done. What's coming is coming. And now thanks to Trump and his oligarchs, we're going to turn our country in a nastier divided place, one where constructive outcomes will be further out of reach than ever, and genuine troubles are only a few temper tantrums away. But back to basics and fundamental causes. I've long thought a society that idolized maximizing profits and bonuses - while minimizing expenditures and denying responsibility for externalities, above all else the way we have, that that was a road to destruction. Couldn't agree more.