What a coup looks like

Yeah, well facts is facts and we’re in free fall anyways.

And although I’m very happy today, the inauguration and speeches really impressed me. To me, Biden’s speech turned into a civics lesson worth hearing more than once. VP Harris impresses me, the ceremony was spot on considering the situation.

But I’m still very pissed at being an unwilling witness to decades worth of deliberate self-destruction fostered by a willful ignorance populous being brainwashed and led by their noses by advertising and a gluttony for consumerism.

The global warming thing is still happening and the show is just starting to get warmed up and the trend is in one direction; the virus is settling in for the long haul with mutation and surprises as evolution would have it; we depend on an economic engine addicted to growth and that is increasingly consuming and destroying ourselves and the life support system we depend on.

 

I know Lausten, you mean good and I do appreciate it, nor do I disagree, but you know, you also get me thinking about my own life, growing from working childhood* to working manhood, doing it the old fashioned way for poor boys. Lot of work in my teens and twenties, lots of different jobs. lots of traveling, lots of interaction with others, and along the way I did get smacked in the face with my own stupidity a few times. We don’t like it, but those were the lesson that lasted.

I was forced face the consequences, I was forces to take responsibility and I came out the other side much better. In big ways and small. This new patty cake world where no one can ever be scolded, look where it’s gotten us. A world full of willfully delusional people who believe they are superior and above all reproach.

 

Now admittedly when I’m at a board meeting, I’d never get close to this sort of tenor. We have a job to do, all are acting in good faith and I listening to all sides and I’m very considerate when pushing mine, being civil friendly respectful is the name of the game. Allowing consensus to rule is the way to play. And yes it feels a hell of a lot better. But that’s also real people and not some vague mass of characters out there somewhere.

Then again, everyone acts like a thirty year mortgages (and the like) are reality, when the tragic fact is that thirty years down the road will see a totally different world. Only the realists, as in Earth Centrists, science respecting, honest dealing, cooperation willing and tough, tough, tough will be around.

As you can image I have an interesting Mindscape and the day to days can get weird to navigate, but I find that having abandoned all hope for the future, I can focus on today with that much more relish, so far so good.

I will try to watch my p’s and q’s - still willfully rejecting clearly explainable physical facts and absolutely refusing to learn, in fact, resenting all efforts to learn - should to get called out!

 

 

*Not like they used to work children, but we were an old world household, and learning to work was part of it.

This new patty cake world where no one can ever be scolded, look where it’s gotten us. A world full of willfully delusional people who believe they are above all reproach.
You know right-wing people say almost exactly those words, don’t you?
We have a job to do, all are acting in good faith and I listening to all sides and I’m very considerate when pushing mine, being civil friendly respectful is the name of the game. Allowing consensus to rule is the game. And yes it feels a hell of a lot better. But that’s also real people and not some vague mass of characters out there somewhere.
It seems like you are getting my theme here. Not everyone is “board room” material though. I prefer work to meetings myself. Some people need to be handed the tools, given a timeline, and shown the goal. Most respond very well to that. You talked about how work built character. That’s exactly what I’m talking about.
Not sure what the topic is on this thread anymore,
Free flowing since the coup has been cancelled and tRump slithered away.
‘A Total Failure’: The Proud Boys Now Mock Trump Members of the far-right group, who were among Donald Trump’s staunchest fans, are calling him “weak” as more of them were charged for storming the U.S. Capitol.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/20/technology/proud-boys-trump.html

But by this week, the group’s attitude toward Mr. Trump had changed. “Trump will go down as a total failure,” the Proud Boys said in the same Telegram channel on Monday.

As Mr. Trump departed the White House on Wednesday, the Proud Boys, once among his staunchest supporters, have also started leaving his side. In dozens of conversations on social media sites like Gab and Telegram, members of the group have begun calling Mr. Trump a “shill” and “extraordinarily weak,” according to messages reviewed by The New York Times. They have also urged supporters to stop attending rallies and protests held for Mr. Trump or the Republican Party. …

“When Trump told them that if he left office, America would fall into an abyss, they believed him,” Arieh Kovler, a political consultant and independent researcher in Israel who studies the far right, said of the Proud Boys. “Now that he has left office, they believe he has both surrendered and failed to do his patriotic duty.”

The shift raises questions about the strength of the support for Mr. Trump and suggests that pockets of his fan base are fracturing. …


 

 

You know right-wing people say almost exactly those words, don’t you?
And your point?* Right-wing doesn't automatically mean bad. It's the spectrum. How seriously they take themselves.

There are plenty of red necks I’ve enjoyed working with more than certain hippy types.

It comes down to honesty, integrity, respect, fair-play - after that it smooth sailing, we’re all humans, some days we do better than others, some day’s we’d love to forget, others we want etched into marble. :wink:

 

As a red neck once explained to me, some days are diamond, some days are a rock.

 

 

It’s the tRumpkin types and Kochs and Murdochs and their disciples and their madmen of advertising/brainwashing, that I have very little compassion for.

When did Democrats become the party of war? Defense bills are the most easily passed, bipartisan bills we have now. Kennedy claimed he was trying to clean up the mess from previous Presidents, I don’t really believe that, but Nixon was Vietnam, Reagan put us in debt with military buildup, Bush (both of them) was Iraq, Clinton was more into drones than troops, Afghanistan was bipartisan when it was a secret war but 9/11 allowed Bush to turn that into a hell hole. Syria was a difficult situation, too difficult for me to defend Obama. I could look more at who negotiated treaties and who made more speeches about peace. I just can’t find this theme that Democrats are more likely to get us into pointless wars.
Biden himself is the problem rather than the democratic party (although democrats have shown plenty of willingness to engage in conflicts they thought would be easy). He believes in the last century idea of wholesome American intervention and he is too middle of the road to put up much resistance. He's also old as dirt and not smart.
Trump tried to skew numbers in his favor with troop withdrawals. In Syria, he pretty much followed the Obama plan that was already in place. In some cases, he may have saved a few America lives, but he put other people, our allies, in grave danger. So, plain troop numbers aren’t a good indicator.
LOL there was no Syria "plan" ever. And we don't have allies in the middle east besides Israel and Saudi Arabia, who are nothing but a burden on us. Trump did the right thing there.
Well dissident right wing extremism was an increasingly clear and present violent threat to our civil peace.
Dissident ideas and right wing extremism are two different things. Treating them the same is an attempt to censor them.

Dissident ideas and right wing extremism are two different things. Treating them the same is an attempt to censor them.

I agree !!

And all dissident ideas are ultra right !

About Middle-East,

The first mistake was Russian invasion of Afghanistan.

The second mistake was the second invasion of Iraq. Bush senior had good reasons not to.

To justify that, Bush junior hatched a plot, pretending that Iraq was full of chemical weapons, which were never found after.

In fact, partly, he behaved as a revengeful toddler, partly, to promote some american firms which got much profit from the plot.

 

LOL there was no Syria “plan” ever. -- guy
It usually doesn't take long before you say something that is completely separated from reality.
And your point?* -- CC
My point is, blaming some cultural change where more people are listened to, as you call it "no one is ever scolded", is not supported by evidence. First, lots of people get scolded. There are entire organizations that have cropped to fight the lies. Second, what's the cause and effect? Less spanking means more unruly adults? I don't get it.

That both sides say this disproves it. The Right says it has produced snowflake liberals. The Left says it has produced true believers of Trump’s lies. Maybe we should look at our failed education system as a whole? Trump was a Democrat when he thought it served him and a Republican later. The rich don’t care about the issues associated with each party, they are focusing on creating the divide.

I think that the causes are structural.

  1. People have lost faith in authorities, be they political, scientific or just medias.

This lost of faith comes mainly from the lies profered, from the disdain for the ordinary people.

  1. People need to give a sense to the universe, to their lives and believe in something.

When someone who seems exterior to the system bring an explanation which comforts people in their beliefs and they can understand, and when they invite them to belong into a circle of initiates, they are tempted.

The people from who the alternate truth comes are skilled, beginning by legitimates questions, true facts, and from there little by little instill doubts and their " alternate truth"

Now I feel that our societies are deeply sick. And that the first cause of this sickness is the changes brought by the development of Capitalism since the 70th.

Conservatives impute the loss of traditional values to liberal propaganda but, in fact, they idealize the past and the change have been brought by unemployment, inequities and so.

Liberals impute the increase of conservatism and violence to the propaganda, but this propaganda prosper on the unhappiness of people.

In old days, unhappy people would have gone to trade unions, and would have demonstrated against capitalisme, nowadays, left has lost its credibility as defensor of middle classes and poor people. and it is its responsibility. It should have been able to explain that the fight for the rights of the minorities and the fight for a decent material life are the sames. It should have been able to promote a program which includes both.

Minorities and poor people and middle classes people are victims of the system and when they fight each others, capitalists are happy.

 

 

Minorities and poor people and middle classes people are victims of the system and when they fight each others, capitalists are happy.
George Carlin said it best;

(warning crude language)

The problem with that meme was that people abandoned politics, thereby guaranteeing it would get more crooked way faster.

Our founding father warned us, a healthy democracy demanded an informed and engaged electorate. Too many simply became consumers.

That’s why I’m so irritated with the Democratic Party that doesn’t do much to help grow, inform and enliven a strong grassroots presence.

Probably out of self-interest.

Dissident ideas and right wing extremism are two different things. Treating them the same is an attempt to censor them.
That's a little confusing. As for censoring.

If one is trying to destroy the government that grants those rights ! Then regular rules get suspended.

That’s why I’m so irritated with the Democratic Party that doesn’t do much to help grow, inform and enliven a strong grassroots presence. -- CC
Don't feel like tracking down YouTubes right now, but Bill Hicks had a couple major themes in his short career, one was, "The puppet on the Left and the puppet on the Right have the same puppet master", the other was "go back to bed America, your government is in control, here, watch American Gladiators". His comedy was about peeling back that thin veneer of lies that keeps us paying our taxes and not complaining too much, keeps us sending our children off to die somewhere that we hadn't heard of until we bombed it.
That’s a little confusing.
Dissident means disagreeing. If we start labeling dissent as extremism then there is no liberal democracy.
As for censoring. If one is trying to destroy the government that grants those rights ! Then regular rules get suspended.
Again, if dissent now means "destroying the government" then liberal democracy can't exist.

 

It usually doesn’t take long before you say something that is completely separated from reality.
Why don't you find some proof of this Syria plan.

Perhaps we should change the title to - This is what a Failed Coup looks like

There were safety concerns.

 

 

There were safety concerns.


Oh … for a minute there I thought this was the Voting Rights thread.

 

 

The title says this is what a coupe looks like.

 

Oops, may bad. ?

 

Then again, guess I could have labeled #339814 before the Reagan’s crowd and Gingrich and Murdochs/Kochs/Mercers/etc with their Tea Party sheople graduating into the world of Breitbart delusionals and Democracy haters and the Republican Party’s realignment with Totalitarian Thinking.

In which case #341242 would be a simple summary of what voting rights look like under Republican control.