They are a democracy and so are we. We need to help each other. Of course we care about other people.
And this misconception is precisely why we critique your “understanding of affairs”.
Here are some true facts.
U.S.-Ukraine Relations
The United States established diplomatic relations with Ukraine in 1991, following its independence from the Soviet Union. The United States attaches great importance to the success of Ukraine’s transition to a modern democratic state with a flourishing market economy. U.S. policy is centered on realizing and strengthening a democratic, prosperous, and secure Ukraine more closely integrated into Europe and Euro-Atlantic structures.
The U.S.-Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership highlights the importance of the bilateral relationship and outlines enhanced cooperation in the areas of defense, security, economics and trade, energy security, democracy, and cultural exchanges. It also emphasizes the continued commitment of the United States to support enhanced engagement between the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and Ukraine.
To fulfill one of the key tenets of the charter, the two countries have established the Strategic Partnership Commission.
U.S. Assistance to Ukraine
U.S. Government assistance to Ukraine aims to support the development of a democratic, prosperous, and secure Ukraine, fully integrated into the Euro-Atlantic community. Bilateral Relations Fact Sheet can be found here.
Bilateral Economic Relations
The United States has granted Ukraine market economy status and terminated the application of the Jackson-Vanik amendment to Ukraine, giving Ukraine permanent normal trade relations status.
The United States and Ukraine have a bilateral investment treaty. U.S. exports to Ukraine include coal, machinery, vehicles, agricultural products, fish and seafood, and aircraft. U.S. imports from Ukraine include iron and steel, inorganic chemicals, oil, iron and steel products, aircraft, and agricultural products.
The U.S.-Ukraine Council on Trade and Investment was established under the countries’ agreement on trade and investment cooperation and works to increase commercial and investment opportunities by identifying and removing impediments to bilateral trade and investment flows.
Ukraine’s Membership in International Organizations
Ukraine and the United States belong to a number of the same international organizations, including the United Nations, Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, International Monetary Fund, World Bank, and World Trade Organization. Ukraine also is an observer to the Organization of American States.
And you claim: “We have no interest in Ukraine. It is completely foreign.” ???
Well, let’s say that our interests have some inconvenient details that your official link have left out:
“The purpose of Project AERODYNAMIC is to provide for the exploitation and expansion of the anti-Soviet Ukrainian resistance
movement for cold war and hot war purposes. Such groups as the Ukrainian Supreme Council of Liberation (UBVR) and its Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), the Foreign. Representation of the Ukrainian
Supreme Council of Liberation (ZPUHVR) in Western Europe and the
United States, and other organizations such as OUN/B will be utilized.”
Thanks, Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act.
What we have now is a Cuban Missile Crisis gone wrong, sir. We are so fortunate that it is over there and not over here. I hear there is need for salt and pepper for the sloppy joe’s if you are going over to Godzilla’s tonight. Plenty of fresh ground meat.
Funny: this is what they say about the pipeline, the bridge, the Kremlin…
and yet history will show that it is Ukraine who has damaged the civillian infrastructure the most.
It is the Ukraine military who use civillian locations for cover; who launch petal mines into city parks; you are one of the propagandized. I strongly recommend you investigate your sources, and by that I don’t mean using your existing sources. They are corrupt, sir.
You must joking. If so, it is a really really bad joke.
Ukrainian citizens die from Russian bombs and you dare accuse Ukraine for defending against Russians soldiers on Ukrainian soil?
That’s like saying when your house is on fire; "Don’t use water to stop the fire because the water will damage the home more than the fire.
C’mon, get real.
You want Ukraine to put out the welcome mat for the Russian invader?
IMO, you are seriously mistaken in your priorities.
Adam Schiff let the cat out of the bag with the truth. USA aides Ukraine so that we can fight russia over there so that we dont have to fight them here
What do you fear most?”
"I fear that love is not enough "
1 Like
I doubt Schiff intended to give that impression. He means to say that if we don’t help fight Russia now, we may have to fight Russia directly after they have taken Ukraine and go after NATO members. Putin is trying to restore the Empire, make no mistake about that.
Do you really think that Russia will stop taking Ukraine when we stop aiding Ukraine?
What you are advocating would destroy any respect the US still has in the world. The US cannot be relied on in time of need.
A friend (when) in need is a friend indeed! It is Russia who is the enemy!
A war W4U . Can you handle the truth??
What do you fear most?”
"I fear that love is not enough "
I can , I have been there , done that. Have you?
You would abandon an ally . That is unforgivable.
You are advocating dismantling NATO and leave Europe at the merci of Russia , just like before.
Russia is a bad actor in the world. It must be stopped or WWIII is in the making.
If you haven’t learned from history, it is you who will allow for it to repeat.
Why are you ignoring Adam Schiff’s proxy war declaration? What have you got against him?? I dont really care about your doubt. Its frivolous
What do you fear most?”
"I fear that love is not enough "
I really like and respect Schiff.
It is you who has been so conditioned in negativity that you cannot even follow Schiff’s logic.
I do care about your doubts. It’s dangerous.
I am quoting his words while you doubt them . You know more about Americas intention in ukraine than Adam schiff??
What do you fear most?”
"I fear that love is not enough "
I can’t read people’s minds, but propaganda comes out the same as confusion. Propaganda is intended to cause confusion, and sometimes you can look at a person’s life of destruction and mayhem and make an educated guess that they are intending to cause confusion and then turn around and claim to be the solution to all the problems, that they made up. The Taliban were experts at this. In a more primitive country, where radio only covered so far, they sent in the first wave, burned farms, and knocked down the broadcast towers. Then the second wave, in their robes and with their money, came in, helped out, and took over the waves, telling their story of Allah and the path to peace.
Once it gets to the people who are hearing the sermons, or watching the YouTubes, you can’t be sure if they are confused of supporting the confusion. But the effect on the world is the same.
Russia has played a much longer game. I met a woman who went to college in St. Petersburg. It lasted less than a year and then the Bolsheviks shut down the “liberal” university and she went home. Her country was taken over and she fled, eventually to Columbus, IN, where I met her grandson. My encounter with her was brief, but she made sure to tell me to look out for those Russian. At the time, it seemed silly, peace seemed to be the trend. But, maybe she had some insight that I didn’t have.
What @sunnyjim is seeing is the multinational effort to keep an eye on “those Russians”. There is no plan to eliminate them or attack them, but there is a constant effort to support their move toward freedom for their people, for prosperity through peace. This was going along at a steady pace, with steps backward at times, but that’s how history goes. Then Putin.
I’m not going to argue if Ukraine acted in self-defense or if the rest of NATO aligned countries are justified in their war efforts. War is always messy. We get into it too easily. We have too many weapons laying around and the big ones that are loaded and aimed make it worse. I suggested at a party recently that no country should have more than 10 nukes. Someone else proposed there should only be 10 of them in the entire world. Anyway, we won’t solve that problem here.
But, we can use language correctly. We can identify an organization that has intentions of defending against evil, and we can identify evil. It’s not that hard.
1 Like
We have provoked wars and unprovoked wars. In which does evil find its most comfortable seat ?
"I fear that love is not enough "
If, by “we” you mean the history of the United States, yes, we are an imperial power that has constantly been expanding, sometimes into places we shouldn’t. Okay, often into places we shouldn’t. Evil is relative, norms and standards change. We, the United States, also helped the UN get started, and were integral in creating the International Bill of Rights.
The selection of the word sometimes- carefully and deliberately choosen. Deciding not to intervene on the side of the oppressed when clear human right violation occur is also a black mark - evil. - See Palestine , Rwandan, East Tmor, Yemen etc
We see the Western media selling its propaganda with the lie that Russias actions were unprovoked. Chomsky asks a good question - name me one other war that was given such description by our media??
“Right now if you’re a respectable writer and you want to write in the main journals, you talk about the Russian invasion of Ukraine, you have to call it ‘the unprovoked Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Chomsky said. “It’s a very interesting phrase; it was never used before. You look back, you look at Iraq, which was totally unprovoked, nobody ever called it ‘the unprovoked invasion of Iraq.’ In fact I don’t know if the term was ever used — if it was it was very marginal. Now you look it up on Google, and hundreds of thousands of hits. Every article that comes out has to talk about the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.”
“Why? Because they know perfectly well it was provoked,” Chomsky said. “That doesn’t justify it, but it was massively provoked.”
Caitlan’s article is spot on and finshes with
"The reason the mass media have been bleating the word “unprovoked” in unison with regard to this war is because the mass media are propaganda organs of the US empire. Their repetition of this war propaganda slogan exploits a glitch in human cognition known as the illusory truth effect, which makes it difficult for our minds to tell the difference between the experience of hearing something many times and the experience of hearing something that’s true. Just repeatedly inserting the word “unprovoked” into Ukraine war commentary across the board causes people to assume it must have been launched without provocation, because the illusory truth effect can circumvent reason and logic to insert a narrative into the collective consciousness of our civilization.
The fact that all mass media outlets began doing this in unison, against all journalistic training and ethics, shows you just how united the mass media are in service of the US empire. When the need to push a narrative is particularly urgent, the facade of journalistic impartiality and independence drops away, and we see the true face of the most sophisticated propaganda machine that has ever existed"
https://www.informationclearinghouse.info/57719.htm
What do you fear most?”
"I fear that love is not enough "
What word would you use? “Always”? Then you have to find somewhere, someone, who is always peaceful, always using their power only for good. Then you have to say what is good. You have never attempted that. You can’t name the evil people in the deep state, and you can’t name someone with any power who lives with integrity and consistently acts in the best interests of all mankind. Or do you have a Constitution written up somewhere, looking for signatures?
I don’t claim me, or my country are perfect, and you think that is some sort of opening for criticism. It’s just who we are. Reality.
I like Chomsky, but he also uses these superlatives. He has a lot more to back them up than you show, but he leaves holes in his arguments too.
There are no holes in his argument here
What do you fear most?”
"I fear that love is not enough "
This is merely a claim, saying Russia was provoked. Maybe he can back that up, but I’ve never heard it. Not from you either.
Its in the body of the link you didnt bother to read
" from NATO expansion to backing regime change in Kyiv to playing along with aggressions against Donbass separatists to pouring weapons into Ukraine. There’s also an abundance of evidence that the US and its allies sabotaged a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine in the early weeks of the war in order to keep this conflict going as long as possible to hurt Russian interests."
And in many many other interviews
https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/comments/x6x23n/noam_chomsky_says_the_war_in_ukraine_was/
https://www.frontierweekly.com/articles/vol-55/55-7/55-7-Noam%20Chomsky%20on%20Ukraine%20War.html
What do you fear most?”
"I fear that love is not enough "