Vaccinated losing patience with unvaccinated

Even President Biden is telling Repugs (gov’nor Parson of MO is one bad one that intends to let people die) to get out of the way:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/955998?src=mkm_covid_update_210804_MSCPEDIT&uac=357905CZ&impID=3548119&faf=1

"Look, we need leadership from everyone," Biden said. "And if some governors aren't willing to do the right thing to beat this pandemic, then they should allow businesses and universities who want to do the right thing to be able to do it.

“I say to these governors, Please, help.’ But if you aren’t going to help, at least get out of the way of the people who are trying to do the right thing. Use your power to save lives.”

The reporter forgot that Gov’nor Parson did similar, but that’s OK, no one can name all the stupid Gov’nors.

A reporter asked Biden if he thought Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and Texas Gov. Greg Abbott were harming their own citizens. DeSantis signed an order last week prohibiting schools from requiring masks and Abbott has banned local governments and state agencies from mandating vaccines.

“I believe the results of their decisions are not good for their constituents. And it’s clear to me and to most of the medical experts that the decisions being made, like not allowing mask mandates in school and the like, are bad health policy — bad health policy,” Biden replied.

Gov’nor Parson doesn’t want mask mandates or vaccine mandates and is taking mayors to court who have made mask mandates due to the rise in COVID cases. KC mayor said he is following CDC guidelines concerning masks, but Parson is an idiot, who wants the virus to spread, allowing people to die. Missouri is currently a COVID hotspot.

The Delta variant makes up even a higher percentage of cases in some sections of the nation. CNN noted that it accounts for 98% of cases in the region that includes Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, and Nebraska,

@write4u Thank you, fine sir

w4u I don’t blame people here for how they view me (yourself included), but instead of assuming the intents of others, I think this forum will do well with a little more consideration of other’s perspectives without the assumption of them being morally bankrupt (like myself).

Just hope the experts don’t change the vaccine status from “slightly less effective against delta” to “much less effective against delta” — which is quite possible.
Ok so what if they did? The object here is to resolve the epidemic from getting worse, but I'm sure you're the guy who refuses the vaccination based on half-witted ideas that it may not possibly be the end-all cure-all for all things COVID-19. If you think this is about the FBI injecting trackers up your ass, then please stop posting any thought on this forum as all thought has ended.

It’s simple, do your research, and look for the most effective form of treatment. If you have doubts, then ask for outside opinions. The worst thing you could possibly be is the guy who argues “what if” as to a reason for not protecting yourselves and your family.

Not to be an ass, or be banned, but have no friends on this forum. I can’t even express my frustration without the risk of being banned. (yes I want to stay in some way)

 

Mriana Do I sound like I care? I don’t even believe trade unions will be dumb enough to cave into not getting vaccinated against COVID-19, especially after what happened to the meat packers, who BTW are getting vaccinated, if they aren’t already.
 

SUD, a French trade union is calling health workers to go on strike to protest against compulsory vaccination for health workers…

In fact, in France, a coalition of ultra right, of leftists, of conspiracy theorists, and of nuts make a campaign explaining that Covid is not so dangerous, that vaccination and sanitary pass are part of a state project to watch every one, that the quasi compulsory vaccination is an un needed strike against individual freedoms, that vaccine is useless and dangerous and so.

 

 

@morgankane01 I think here in the U.S., many are campaigning for people to get vaccinated. I’m really surprised anyone would be campaigning against vaccine and calling it “not so dangerous” at this point, especially with all the deaths and now children are being hospitalized, as well as dying, from the Delta variant. Those saying that not getting the vaccine is freedom tread on those of us who want freedom from the virus, by getting vaccinated. Those who don’t get vaccinated are causing the virus to mutate, possibly to the point of vaccines not working. We probably wouldn’t be talking about boosters at this point if not for them. Those against getting the COVID-19 vaccine are making death or at least lifelong health issues compulsory, from my POV, and that’s why I believe it should be that if you don’t get vaccinated, you don’t get a job or at least not a living wage job or do anything else that fully vaccinated people get to do. Anti-vaxxers cannot make lifelong health issues or death from COVID-19 compulsory and that’s what I see them as attempting to do. I rather support health and life, which I why I take the stand I do.

@mriana, i fully agree with you, anti vaxs are mad people, especially those against Covid vax.

the matter is why ?

I would say lack of trust, lack of education, and fear. And i would not forget susceptibility to fake news.

French author has just published a book about what he names " Apocalypse of knowledge ", in which he explains the reasons for which fax news and fake science are more popular than serious ones. I will try to give a summing up if i can get the time.

In France a new law allows the firms to suspend the employment contracts of un vaccinated people.

 

 

 

mitch70 said : @write4u Thank you, fine sir

w4u I don’t blame people here for how they view me (yourself included), but instead of assuming the intents of others, I think this forum will do well with a little more consideration of other’s perspectives without the assumption of them being morally bankrupt (like myself).


I hear you and in general, I agree with you. But then you are a reasonable person and even if you were misinformed to start you have given the matter thought and come to a logical conclusion. That’s why I shook your hand. You have “informed yourself” and made a decision based on that knowledge.

That is how an “informed citizenry” should behave in a democracy.

What irks me is when a person stubbornly rejects valid medical news sources and blindly follow the advice of some anonymous con-artist like QAnon.

The fact that this “person(s)” is anonymous should raise a red flag in anyone’s mind. If they are legitimate why remain anonymous? When we consider that this is not a matter of rights and freedoms, but a matter of medical necessity, I have no pity when someone has the opportunity to receive free vaccinations but refuses them and refuses to wear masks to boot, when there are good people who want to be vaccinated, but are denied access by the powers that be.

IMO, medical deniers are criminal (at least criminally negligent) and I have no sympathy for their “beliefs”, especially when they are based on false information, without any attempt to become informed of the facts.

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Morgan is correct when he says the lack of govt education plays a big part in the evolution of the anti vax community. Doesn’t help when the govt orders half measured lockdowns only to tell its population that covid is significant public health risk and they much take this seriously.

There is a long way to go in raising the socialist consciousness of workers in France. They have been hoodwinked by the pseudo left (Stalinists, Morenoites, Pabloites) for decades. The latest anti-vaxxer libertarian protest movement is no exception. It has attracted 10,000s of people and is receiving a huge amount of air time in the capitalist press. It is however totally unscientific and unsupported by the majority of French people, who wish for protection from Covid 19, not infection.

The promotion of anti-health pass demonstrations by the pseudo left, unions and Révolution Permanente (what an oxymoron) is proof that they seek to disorient and fragment working class resistance to Macron’s murderous herd immunity policies. Their treachery will only lead to strengthening the far right and the French police state. They might as well tell workers to vote for Le Pen.

I understand how you feel, mitch70- at least on this topic. I have a young Italian FB (I think she’s 20-something) who refuses to get the vaccine “because of the side effects and lack of testing”. :roll_eyes: I try to explain, but she is happy with masking, social distancing, lockdowns, taking vitamin D or getting sunshine… for the rest of her life, not understanding that the more it evolves/mutates, the more contagious and potentially more deadly it is. Sadly, this virus doesn’t just go for only those who do not listen to the science and adapt to the ever changing environment ((masking, vaccination, etc), but it also goes for fully vaccinated too. The only difference is the fully vaccinated extremely rarely (.0004%) go the hospital and die from it. The majority of fully vaccinated people might become asymptomatic or get a mild case, unlike those who run around unmasked and unvaccinated. Those who don’t listen to the science are, IMHO, lining up to receive the Darwin Award. Stupidity to the very last breath Darwin Award goes to that one dude who said he will not get the vaccine despite going to the hospital and being vented… if he doesn’t survive i that is.

I suppose those rushing to get vaccinated now are the same people that slam on their brakes when they see a cop ahead on the highway.

I get tired of explaining our process for banning. Are you really not capable of expressing frustration without it including insulting others, swearing, repetitive posts, or mangling others words? When was someone ever banned for simply “expressing frustration”.

What do you mean you have no friends here? If you want the type of friend who agrees with everything you say, tells you are right, encourages you to be mad rather than seek solutions, well, yeah, you won’t find that type of friend here. I would try a local watering hole.

Everything you’ve mentioned here can easily have me being banned.

  • insulting others
    By far the easiest way to be banned is to insult someone by not agreeing. You say a man can be a woman because they believe themselves to be. I disagree and say that is not true. You (as a key master) can argue that my statement is hate speech that doesn’t recognize that sensitivity of the issues and therefore I by all rights deserve to be banned. (hence the underlining threat of disagreeing)

  • swearing
    I can get this in some ways, but I think it’s only fair that this it more prevalent when such swear words are targeted at an individual. The word fkuc is nothing anyone in the forum is new with, so the random usage seems a bit harsh if being banned for it. I don’t believe this rule to be such an issue though in certain ways I think it helps to not make this some low-brow forum.

  • repetitive posts (wait what?)
    Ok, we ALL know that Citizens Challenge has been guilty of this one for MANY years :joy:. My God! I just gave one more reason for the guy to hate me. I get it though, when it comes to serious issues, we need to reiterate the importance of those issues lest they die into obscurity. The fault of human nature is that people tend to all get on board on important issues and then seemingly over time forget those issues as though they had been somehow resolved by time and complacency. I think CC sees this and does what he can to do his part, but there will come the time, if not already. CC has a good heart is all I can say from what I’ve read from his posts. Nothing I say is any good for him or anyone, so I’ll leave it at that.
    People here post things that matter to them. it’s what makes a forum live or die. If there’s no passion, then of course there is no forum. If we all agree, then we all should just come here to say hi, hello, and goodbye and then move on with our lives, but people here want to be challenged and challenge their thinking against others. The weak-minded of us are those who are here to win arguments so they can sleep better in their delusional dreams.

  • mangling others’ words (What what WHAT???)
    @Lausten Whatever you don’t do this. Don’t make rules for the forum that don’t exist. I’ve read the forum rules and saw nothing of the last two rules you’ve claimed exist within the forum. If you want to make these claims then do your part as key-master and then give source to the forum rules. If I were a smarter man then I’d possibly question accusations against me, but I keep things simple assuming my lack of comprehension of these issues.

No one has ever expressed this as a rule violation. The only times I hear it are from people who can’t take a critique of their logic. Like people who claim not believing in Jesus is an insult to them, or if someone doesn’t read the same news sources.

It’s no wonder you aren’t happy here, if you make up stuff like this.

Which is what I normally point out as the problem.

CC, and others have themes. They present new data often, they apply their theme to new topics, and to new members. They develop their themes and qualify and refine them. I’m not here to judge the quality of those presentations.

Trolling is difficult to define, but there are rules against it and rules that attempt to define it. I’m not going to go over them, but I’ll find them and list them here. I always, always, explain my reasoning when I cite these rules.

It’s not perfect but that’s just how it works sometimes.

Trolling is difficult to define, but there are rules against it and rules that attempt to define it. I’m not going to go over them, but I’ll find them and list them here. I always, always, explain my reasoning when I cite these rules.

I can simplify some of this for you. Trolls are those people who don’t care about logic, but are only here to incite frustrations within the forum. I completely understand why this is an easy task for any moderator. Lausten I really do get your dilemma. I’m not expecting you to like me in any way, nor would I want you to like me. I only come here to challenge my thinking. Once I’ve become complacent, then there’s really no reason for me to be here.

I guess I forgot to get back to you on that citation. Rules are now in the FAQ, off the main menu. Much more streamlined. Here’s the stuff I’m referring to:

You may wish to respond by disagreeing. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people . Please avoid:

  • Name-calling
  • Ad hominem attacks
  • Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content
  • Knee-jerk contradiction

Instead, provide thoughtful insights that improve the conversation.

  • Name-calling
  • Ad hominem attacks
  • Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content
  • Knee-jerk contradiction

Instead, provide thoughtful insight

*Name Calling? uh Wow. Seriously? Give the official CFI list of name-calling then.

  • Ad hominem attacks Yeah I’ve been there MANY TIMES of people accusing me of RACISM not reading my post. It’s easy to accuse of XYZ with total disregard of evidence other than ASSUMPTIONS. This is what CFI sounds like it’s becoming.
  • Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content Yeah like many times I’ve been dealing with people like you. You just assume that I’m wrong and assume what I’m arguing because it’s easier to accuse me than to question what I’m arguing.
  • Name-calling
  • Ad hominem attacks
  • Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content
  • Knee-jerk contradiction My brain goes numb to see this. Uh, you do this yourself multiple times, but you’re the HEAD keymaster so that means all great things you say should never be questioned.

Name calling is not about the words used, although vulgarity is frowned upon. It’s when the person is labeled in any way instead of the argument being addressed

The rules section has been expanded. This is not a change. These are rules that have been in place for years, but are now included in this new format. I can even link to a specific rule

https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/faq#rule3

Which is pretty cool. We currently have a few members who are definitely in violation of “e. Trolling”, but I prefer to be generous in enforcing that rule.

The phrase “This includes posting derogatory or inflammatory messages with the intent to bait an overheated response” is the difficult one. People that I consider trolls, often say they feel like they are the ones being baiting. To me, this is usually scientific information cited information or something I consider common knowledge being stated. But we live in a world where people with guns are sitting in the seats of governments (I’m referring to Kabul), and science is considered suspect, so common ideas about civility are fluid.