United Americans living on the Native Americans lands

There are many Caucasians that believe that their race has done a great disservice to the indigenous people of the Northern Americans by overtaking their lands and even going so far as to build infrastructure on these indigenous peoples’ lands.

Is anyone here on the CFI guilty of living on the Native Americans’ property without willingly giving them what is rightfully theirs? If you don’t agree with giving your land then give a
the reason as to why you are still here in violation?

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Two things will happen here now. I’m going to get ignored or…yeah I want to see what people could possibly say as they own property on Indian land. (unless you say you rent XD)

I had the good great fortune to work for two Indian Tribes as proposal writer and was instrumental in acquiring grants for a Salmon hatchery, a Hotel/Casino, a Tribal HQ/sports arena, and a position for a tribal home healthcare provider.

I consider it one of my small contributions in exchange for the hospitality shown an immigrant by my native hosts.

I learned authentic Indian brain tanning and received a blue ribbon for my work at an International Indian Fair in Vancouver, BC. Canada.

My wife received an Eagle feather from the daughter of a tribal chief, as a token of esteem and gratitude for her contributions to the tribe . We were honored to be chosen as god-parents to a tribal newborn.

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The Utes subdivided this land and sold it to whites.
I feel blessed to be living here, even found stone tools, the river (well these days it’s a seasonal creek) used to be a main thoroughfare for Ancestral Puebloans.


I think white expansion and genocide is a horror. But, I’m here.
I appreciate your achievements and am curious what you’d like to share with folks like me, who find ourselves here because of a deep love for the land, what do we do about history?

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It’s not a simple question. There are a few possible things that can be done, and I don’t claim to have a solution. But first, let’s frame the question. I can rule out the choice of acting like Europeans did 300 years ago, or like the US military did 100 years ago. The government broke the treaties. Governments don’t get away with that as easy now as they did back then.

But, knowing some wrong was done doesn’t always make it easy to know how to respond. One thing I heard recently is the idea of returning public land that was stolen. But then, return it to who? Some kind of coalition of tribes? And what kind of cooperation with governments?

Mainly, I’d just like to shift the attitudes, so that it’s seen as something possible.

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I personally don’t think there will ever be a resolution since you can’t change the past, and like the slavery issue, throwing money at the problem won’t make the problem go away. With each new generation will be new claims that they want reparations. The cycle will never end. Regardless, I appreciate everyone’s input on the topic.

That’s really depressing.

Yeah, but you know that I’m right. There is no way to resolve these issues as they will always come back up with each new generation.

No, I don’t know that. Tribal nations figured how to get a lot of money from retirees and they’ve used to buy schools and provide housing. The girl scouts in my old home town added signs along the Potawatomi “Trail of Death”, a forced march that happened before the “Trail of Tears”. Things have changed a lot. Like The Washington Football Team. I think you are mistaking things actually happening with some sort of endless unresolvable disagreement.

Can you really visualize a reparation where everyone being happy with the end results? Even if there was a solution, give it 10 years and we’ll find ourselves at square one with people demanding reparations. My argument is that with each new generation born so will come the demands for reparations regardless of what had been done in the past.

I’m not expecting you to agree with my point, but do you get where I’m arguing at?

I do get your point. But on the other side of that is how often “reparations” were promises never met, and the problems simply kicked down the road, until the discontent once again reaches crescendo and more talk and promises and a show of action is needed and dually performed, but little actually happens.

The one does not negate the other. People are, if nothing else, self serving.

mocs (2)

It depends on your point of view.

If I was a Native American I would see everybody else as invaders, but I’m not. Personally, I don’t care about this issue that much because natives are pretty much dead and gone. I also disagree with the idea of “giving back” something we spent centuries developing. It’s a sure recipe for losing.

I appreciate you taking the time to see where I’m coming from. I personally don’t think reparations will ever work. You can’t throw money at a problem and expect it to work itself out. This is not a bash on your beliefs btw.

I’ll get heat for this but so be it. The problem lies within the African American culture. Unlike the Asian cultures, there aren’t any expectations from the parents for their children to succeed. I thnk it’s sad that society sells black kids as succeeding only by being sports athletes or rap artists. Though I don’t agree with Obama’s politics, I still see him as a great role model for black children to aspire to become. Other black people such as Morgan Freeman, Thomas Sowell, and Neil deGrasse Tyson will never get the reverence or even known for that matter by black youth, but you’ll certainly see them wearing Tupac and Dr. Dre tee shirts of them holding a gun.

i have questions I dare not ask.

Actually, it’s more like I feel bad for you. You know that lots of white kids listen to music videos all day and know the names bands and soda brands but not their own senators, right?

No, I don’t. If simply writing checks to people was a solution that worked, then we would have done that by now, so, it’s not like your opinion is some sort of outlier.

I would like to see something like investing in infrastructure. Red-lining of neighborhoods and building highways through them destroyed communities. The way we fund schools guarantees those communities will remain places with little opportunity. Suburbia didn’t just happen because with good values of the people who moved there, it’s the result of zoning and targeted investments.

I’m not sure what you mean? The whole of the U.S. used to belong to some of my ancestors. Missouri alone was Native American land. Children taken from their parents at an early age and placed in Carlisle Schools, getting the Native American beaten out of them if they even spoke the language. Some of my direct ancestors were on the Trail of Tears and jumped off in the Ozark woods, as the story goes, and married into the families of the people living in the Ozarks. Regardless of the stories, many Native Americans were killed. That said, do I think Native Americans need restitution? Those living on the Rez, I think they should, but that said, if you mean everyone in the U.S. living on Native American lands (which is the whole country) give restitution) that’s more complicated. Those on the Rez are more likely to be heretarily N.A. and not as mixed up genetically. Those not on the Rez and haven’t been for ages, are less likely to know much about their people and have benefited greatly for living as the white man does.

My grandmother on my father’s side, I suspect was placed in a Carlisle school as a child or at least mistreated as a half-Native American. She knew her language, but didn’t want her grandchildren to learn or speak it. Even so, when she didn’t want the in-laws to know what she was saying, she’d speak the language to her children and asked if they understood. My cousins on that side and I were allowed to talk about being N.A. in the home, but outside the home we were “all white”.

It’s very complicated as to what I think and how I feel, but the only thing I feel I have been denied is knowing/learning about N.A. ancestors and their culture. Other that, I don’t think I’m owed anything. I think those who are far more N.A. than I am, such as my grandmother and those full N.A. are owed a lot due to the psychological and physical damage they were put through, but I can’t say what all they are entitled to, except for better land than they are on now.

Actually, it’s more like I feel bad for you. You know that lots of white kids listen to music videos all day and know the names of bands and soda brands but not their own senators, right?

I’m not sure if you’re being genuine in saying that you feel bad for me, but if so then I appreciate it.

The second part of what you said confuses me as it probably to more than just white kids. How many black kids know the names of the name Cardib and the lyrics of her song Wet Ass Pussy versus the name of their own mayor. The song made #1 in all the pop charts so you know it must be good. Not to be Canadian but Yeah, No. It sucks. It sucks that this generation brought that retarded song made by a black woman to the number one charts. So what does that tell young black women, and what roles do they play in society? I haven’t seen any black outrage about her song. In fact, it seems to be that her influence on the black community was so great that she was able to speak on black rights of all the inequality of the world. Not Obama, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Morgan Freeman, or Thomas Sowell. It had to be a black woman that sang a song of her overtly hydrated genitalia. It seems like that black community of modern-day have their priorities out of wack.

The hard part for most people to understand if any at all, is that I’m okay with being wrong. I’ve been down that path many times but I’m always willing to adapt to better information. I don’t see this in anyone anymore. It’s the ego that makes you and others lose because you’re so indoctrinated to believe that accepting your own failures means that you had failed.

Sorry, I lecture on in futility. There’s a certain moral superiority that comes with feeling bad for others as though it somehow elevates yourself to a higher moral standard. It just seems sad to me that people have to be that way.

Oh man. You haven’t lived amongst N.A. or went to college with them even. There are still many left. You’ve just been sheltered in a white world. There are still a lot of Reservations around, especially in Oklahoma, Arizona, New Mexico, the Dakotas, and other places. Many young people get the opportunity to go to college and get a degree, fully paid for by the government. Then they go back to the Rez and to form doctors’ offices, law firms, teach, etc. They pretty much keep to themselves when on the Rez and willing to educate people, who want to learn, when off the Rez. However, I can understand how you would think that, given that the population off the Rez is generally around 1%. However, there are still very vibrant N.A. communities around the nation. They have Pow Wows, Sweats, and many other activities. While you don’t need one to get to a Pow Wow, you need a direct invite from the host to go to a Sweat, which is a wonderful thing to attend, if you get the chance.

If there is a N.A. center near you (many cities have them) then you can go there and learn a lot, directly from N.A. and yes, I’ve been to a Sweat and more.

Mriana, :cry:, what about Colorado and Utah?

PS. FLC