CNN interviewed 19 undocumented immigrants who say they worked for the Trump Organization and that Donald Trump had to have known they were undocumented during their employment. CNN's Randi Kaye reports.
Why trump’s staggering amount of lies and hypocrisy don’t matter to his supporters:
Some decided to support him initially because they thought he might be good for America, and subsequently their cognitive dissonance drove them further and deeper into supporting him, beyond the reach of rationality.
Some support him (and this is a BIG one) because he will/has put the “conservative” ideology firmly in control of the courts for the coming generation/s. As we see now, the SCOTUS could be on the verge of ending Roe v. Wade. Maybe they can also take out Brown v. Board of Education. Certainly they will solidify the undermining of women’s health centers and they will solidify “Citizen’s United”. They are quite willing to overlook Trump’s many sins if he can achieve their “Pro Life” goals.
A portion of Trump supporters (a small portion? idk) are bigots and xenophobes (some probably don’t even realize how bigoted and xenophobic they are. But Trump is the #1 guy for them, in that no one with a more bigoted and xenophobic agenda could be elected POTUS. He is a dream come true for them, like a pre-wheelchair George Wallace, but one that actually got elected.
Some still believe the hype and scam about Trump being a great businessman and deal maker. With the economy apparently doing well, that is enuf for them to overlook all else.
Note: #2 is the main reason I voted for H Clinton in 2016 and also, imo, why any liberal who didn’t was an ignorant jackass.
Mike this one’s for you.
No, Tim was following you. Tim and Patrick have sailed. There is no debate here. But I got to say, Tim give Trump a lot of credit for the ability to have people follow him. Which I don’t think is the case. The people are sick and tired of the Left’s BS and they want to stop all the crazy stuff going on. Therefor Trump and the American people are on the same page.
Crazy stuff?
The point being, supporting laws against immigration then hiring people who broke those laws is crazy.
The people are sick and tired of the Left’s BS and they want to stop all the crazy stuff going on.Unfortunately, I find the left very confusing and confused too often myself. I think we need a new labeling method in these over-manipulated-politics by dishonest ad campaigns times we find ourselves in.
How about the Rationalist fact-based crowd vs, the Faith shackled crowd.
One of the big problems with the left is that they’ve been totally incapable of confronting the Faith based bullshit and brainwashing of the Christian Prosperity Doctrine believing faithful. Which {Christian Prosperity Doctrine} incidentally is about as anti-christ as its possible to get, but hey if you got great enough propaganda, a huge megaphone and a totally ruthless self-certain attitude toward the importance of your own EGO and desires it’s easy to Brainwash people.
Then we got the corporate oligarch, Kochs, Mercers, and particularly Murdoch (with his long range plan that seems to have worked out to a tee) and such with their propaganda media empires, focused on political advancement rather than reporting on the facts of what’s happening.
As you are such a great example of. I mean you prefer an obvious private incestuous click of fringe scientists and pretend scientists funded by deep corporate pockets - to a global community of informed competitive scientists working within the framework of constructive debate.
All your side has to show is great salesmanship - as my recent visits into the heart of middle class modern America has been dramatizing for me - facade and profits driven salesmanship is all this country lives on anymore. Just have to scan the TV channels to realize how f’n lost our society has become. Or visit a mall. Lordie lordie, how much awareness people have lost, absolutely unbelievable for someone like me who loves learning about this world I was born into and who believes we were supposed to care for this planet and each other and the future wellbeing of all.
Oh I know you’ll just shrug it off, try to pretend it’s just petie’s crazy talk - but you know the story is there, the documentation of the known sordid details is solid. It has nothing to do with my opinion - it has to do with what has actually and really unfolding.
You’d have to start with
Merchants of Doubthttps://www.merchantsofdoubt.org
The U.S. scientific community has long led the world in research on public health, environmental science, and other issues affecting the quality of life. Our scientists have produced landmark studies on the dangers of DDT, tobacco smoke, acid rain, and global warming. But at the same time, a small yet potent subset of this community leads the world in vehement denial of these dangers.
In their new book, Merchants of Doubt, historians Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway explain how a loose–knit group of high-level scientists, with extensive political connections, ran effective campaigns to mislead the public and deny well-established scientific knowledge over four decades. In seven compelling chapters addressing tobacco, acid rain, the ozone hole, global warming, and DDT, Oreskes and Conway roll back the rug on this dark corner of the American scientific community, showing how the ideology of free market fundamentalism, aided by a too-compliant media, has skewed public understanding of some of the most pressing issues of our era.
“A well-documented, pulls-no-punches account of how science works and how political motives can hijack the process by which scientific information is disseminated to the public.”—Kirkus Review
Okay to bring it back to Trumps hypocrisy, lets spread the net wider.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/trump-beyond-hypocrisy/573481/
One for the road:
In revering Trump, the religious right has laid bare its hypocrisy Samuel G Freedman
Lausten & CC - Crazy stuff? The point being, supporting laws against immigration then hiring people who broke those laws is crazy.
That what happens when you have over regulation. A couple facts that are not well understood by Americans. Illegals know more about America labor laws than Americans. For thirty years now attorneys have been educating the people of many countries by radio and TV. To them it is like the lotto. Come to America get a job and a paycheck and then go back home and the attorneys will file your workers compensation claim.
Next, what CC does not understand. It is against the law for Trump or any other employer to ask an employee if they are illegal. You must hand them the proper paperwork. They fill it out and then you sent it to the State and Federal government. Even if they say they are illegal the paperwork is all the counts. Any employer acting beyond the paperwork can be fined and sued.
As far as the Faith stuff. There is some political stuff going on about abortion. Other than that, I don’t see a lot of faith items in the news. The abortion is all over the place. But I think the biggest problem is not the abortion for most on the right. It is the Lefts demand that it must be paid for by the taxpayers. It just does not make a lot of sense to a lot of people to have thousands of people coming to American from around the world to have Anchor Babies and have the taxpayers pay for them. The Left are the me, me, me and me big babies. They want everything paid for. I think they pushed this subject to far and got some push back they did not like.
Next CC gets into Climate Science. Come on now. CC is no better than the scientists. They have a lot in common. Neither one will ever make a prediction. Well not after they stopped idolizing Gore anyway. All the labels and name calling just shows its all political.
Next, as CC travels all over the map. We have the rich. CC would be surprised if she would take the time and look for common factors. Like the more regulations and attorneys, the richer the rich got.
Next, CC returns to Trump. Tries to lie to us by making us think she has morals and Trump does not. Until the Democrats look at Hillary’s emails and figure out if 4 Americans are dead because of them. Then they don’t deserve to have the time of day.
Next, CC returns to religion. I have explained it several times. Our system and all systems in mankind’s history has proven to work better with good morals. Our system used the religion to help teach morals. It is that simple. From what I have seen with the Democratic Congress and the Socialists, is zero morals. America needs to stop educating the people. The people are getting really stupid the longer they spend in education institutions.
Point being. Just because you are born here. Live here. Work here. That does not make you an American other than by birth. You might be a communist. Americanism is an idea built upon knowledge. The way people should live and treat each other. The Democrats are in no way Americans for the most part.
Mike, maybe you didn’t get my subtle point that I don’t support the current immigration laws. They do not meet our economic needs or recognize that we need the people who want to come here and work. It works for people like Trump to keep that quiet, and pay people less, who he knows won’t speak up because they don’t want to go back to making nothing in the country that people like Trump exploited and created the situation that they are now further exploiting.
Come to America get a job and a paycheck and then go back home and the attorneys will file your workers compensation claim.Show me one of these claims you are talking about.
Next, what CC does not understand. It is against the law for Trump or any other employer to ask an employee if they are illegal.Maybe in your FOX bubble.
I-9, Employment Eligibility VerificationForm I-9 is used for verifying the identity and employment authorization of individuals hired for employment in the United States. All U.S. employers must ensure proper completion of Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. Both employees and employers (or authorized representatives of the employer) must complete the form. On the form, an employee must attest to his or her employment authorization. The employee must also present his or her employer with acceptable documents evidencing identity and employment authorization. The employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and to relate to the employee and record the document information on the Form I-9. The list of acceptable documents can be found on the last page of the form. Employers must retain Form I-9 for a designated period and make it available for inspection by authorized government officers. NOTE: State agencies may use Form I-9. Also, some agricultural recruiters and referrers for a fee may be required to use Form I-9.
Form I-9 (PDF, 683 KB)
Form I-9 Paper Version (This version is unfillable and must be printed for completion on paper only.) (PDF, 73 KB)
Form I-9 Supplement, Section 1 Preparer and/or Translator Certification (PDF, 816 KB) (PDF, 854 KB)
Instructions for Form I-9 (PDF, 565 KB) (PDF, 565 KB)
Form I-9 in Spanish (May be filled out by employers and employees in Puerto Rico ONLY) (PDF, 416 KB)
Form I-9 Supplement in Spanish (PDF, 246 KB)
Instructions for Form I-9 in Spanish (PDF, 295 KB)
Oh that and ignoring how much we, Americans and our obscene amorality during hundred+ years of interactions in South America have contributed to the conditions that are forcing these people to flee their homes.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/banana-warshttps://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/where-we-got-term-banana-republic-180961813/
https://www.panoramas.pitt.edu/other/truth-behind-banana-republic
But, then one would have to some humane, empathetic, instincts to appreciate such things - and sadly as the past couple years have developed it sure seems like Jesus Pimps for Cash and their Prosperity Doctrine only have their own self-certainty at heart, well that and hatred for all others. Fear and ignorance does that to people. So tragic, such a wasteland it will leave behind.
Maybe in your FOX bubble.Oddly enough, I saw this thing about how an employer can't ask you if you are an illegal immigrant at McDonald's. I was standing there waiting for my McCoffee something and there was a board for the employees. It said pretty much exactly that. But, as you pointed out, and through personal experience, I have been asked for ID.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, which is not conspiracy land, where Mike lives. I’m sure it’s not legal for an employer to ask if you ever crossed the border illegally. They can do background checks however, which I know little about, and don’t know how much info the courts give you. If you didn’t get caught, obviously, the background check won’t have that, although it might have a gap of some kind. Also, are employers legally required to examine your ID in detail and verify it is in fact real? I doubt it. I know some kids aren’t even aware how they got here, because they were babies at the time.
This gray area prevents an HR person being held liable for a mistake, which is good, but also opens a door for someone to look the other way. But if you are the President, and it’s reasonable to believe you had information that you had “illegals” working for you, that is no longer a gray area.
Your old enough to remember when President Regan’s gardener was found to be an illegal. A week latter he was a legal worker. No one had a problem with that.
H. W. Bush really screwed up America by letting a lot of regulations come to power. Our cheese production came close to moving to Argentina. Argentina is ¼ the size of America but has about the same amount of grass land. Our dairy industry just about moved to Argentina. It was the illegals who worked in the new industrial dairies that were opening in the Western US that saved the American Cheese and dairy industry. This story has never made the news. But I worked the industry at the time.
The illegals we are dealing with today are not the same as a couple of decades ago. The news says they are coming for work. BS, they are coming for a lawsuit and benifits. Of all the thousands of new regulations for Americans in workforce laws. It has created a windfall for the illegals’ attorneys. And the money being sent by workers back to their countries is a major source of revenue for those countries. The system is broken for America but working really good for the other countries.
Immigration should not be a problem. That is what we are paying the congress for. To fix these problems. The congress has scammed us and lied to us. We need to drain the swamp.
As you know Lausten, the biggest problem I see is our lost of morals of the new generation. We need to elect the people with good morals. I have no trouble with President Trump.
This story has never made the news. But I worked the industry at the time.Translation: He had a job in a factory once and some guy ranted about this. He believed that guy.
The illegals we are dealing with today are not the same as a couple of decades ago. The news says they are coming for work. BS, they are coming for a lawsuit and benifits. Of all the thousands of new regulations for Americans in workforce laws. It has created a windfall for the illegals’ attorneys. And the money being sent by workers back to their countries is a major source of revenue for those countries. The system is broken for America but working really good for the other countries.Here's the things about attorneys. They file paperwork. That paperwork is public knowledge. If what you say is true, it would be traceable and quantifiable. So, show me the data. Or just show me these regulations. Regulations are not secret. And what system? The system where people walk thousands of miles with nothing, risking death, to get menial jobs and then send some of it back home so their children won't starve? That system?
A few decades back Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay together accounted for just 3% of the world’s soy production. By 2016 that number had risen to almost 50%. Soy is now South America’s most traded agricultural commodity. Today, these three countries account for more than 95% of the continent’s harvested area for soy. Ask yourself, what moved the American farmers down to South America to grow?
United Dairy Farmers and Glanbia were looking to setup operations in Argentina. The reason was the industrial dairies were being closed down by labor problems in America. When it comes to labor, it does not take much to put an industrial dairy out of business. The milk producers are out of business without the dairies.
The labor market was 85% illegal workers. Mostly organized by the Catholic Church. The church was not going to fight the new regulations. Which was a losing battle anyway. The answer was to change the system and the liabilities over to labor leasing companies. Away from the industrial dairies. Most of the dairies were managed by forth generation Dutch and Portugal dairy families.
The dairies went from the standard 200 cow dairy to the 400 cows, 1,200 cows, 2,000 cows, 6,000 cows and end leveling off at the 8,000 cow dairies. If bigger, you would build two 8,000 cow dairies side by side. There were a few mega dairies that reached 50,000 cows. This all happened within a decade. A labor guideline was one worker for 100 cows. The dairies went from one to three workers to eighty workers. This got a lot of government regulations kicking in.
The starting pay was at that time was $12/hr. With a lot of overtime. The average pay for jobs in town was $8/hr. with little overtime. Could not get the town people to work on a dairy farm. Set up several programs trying to get workers. It always had been and still was a job held by illegals in the western United States.
What labor leasing did was fit in with the California banks who were financing the dairy growth, the insurance companies and the Accounting Firms specializing in Dairy operations. Glanbia and Dairy Farmers of America picked New Mexico instead of Argentina for plant thanks to a stabilizing labor market. That plant used 88,000 dairy cows’ output to make more than 250 million pounds of cheese a year that would have been shipped from Argentina.
Today all the big producers are working together, and the latest program is a $555M milk plant in Michigan.
It was in a way a war. Fighting the government to keep the capitalist milk production system operating in America. It was the work and skill of the illegals that was the key to winning that war.
Lausten the next time you eat a pizza, think of the years I spent traveling in California, New Mexico, Idaho, Oregon, Utah and Washington state keeping the illegals working to save a farming system. America has been steadily losing farms for decades now. We all need to help the farmers survive.
https://www.farmprogress.com/dairy/how-wisconsin-s-dairy-industry-came-rely-immigrant-labor
That’s about the 20th job you have claimed to have.
Your missing the picture. The key word is “industrial”. Your posting is interesting, but it is from Wisconsin. The system works with many industrial dairies, not just a few. Think about it this way. One cow needs 70 lbs of green chop to eat in a day. If you have an 8,000-cow dairy that is 560,000 pounds of green chop per day. And the cows eat every day. The states I posted is where the industrial dairies are located. Because the land that is needed for protein. Just the amount of water needed for drinking and cleaning really adds up. When a company like the United Dairy Farmers builds a new plant in a state like Wisconsin or Michigan. They are taking over the smaller milk producing companies that cannot compete with the bigger companies due to government regulations.
The biggest threat to you having milk on your table is what is called “Mad Cow”. Dairies in the widespread out lands of the west makes it safer. If Mad Cow hits the whole area has to be sealed off and no traffic can travel the roads until sterilization stations are setup. Every cow for a large geographic area is killed. So, one mad cow and every cow for a 50-mile radius has to be killed and the area cleaned.
Do you want to trust your milk and cheese supply to another country like Argentina?
These industrial dairies produce a lot of milk. And let’s say you are a milk processor in Florida. School is starting and you have to supply a lot of extra milk. You order milk from Utah and that milk is concentrated by taking most of the water out. Once the milk reaches Florida the water is add back into the milk. The dairies in the West keeps the smaller operations like in New York operating. All the extra milk is made into 500- and 1,000-pound blocks and barrels of cheese. The government buys the extra cheese and it is given to countries in need around the world.
As far as jobs. I have had a lot of jobs. I was the top Electrolux vacuum salesman in the state and had a good Amway market along with selling eggs door to door. Along with the Grit Paper and holiday cards. Mowed lawns and shoved snow from sidewalks. I had gone to Los Angeles and worked in several factories, mostly in the City of Industry. But I did not like the city that much. I went back to frontal slope area to work as a farm hand. Worked the combine harvest. Left farming for the money of being a roughneck derrick hand in the oil field. That’s where I had my fifteen-birthday wildcatting in Nebraska. Opened a bar in California at twenty-one along with working as a machine tool rebuilder in the aerospace, having a small woodworking business and changed a California health law and got a contract to put a bamboo hut for my new concession business on the sand of La Jolla beach in the high tide zone – a first. I also had to operate a concession at a pool and tennis club to help qualify for the health permit at the beach. But my toughest project was working with the U.S. Energy Department working on Geothermal Educational trailers for a business I was trying to get up and running. The bad part was I did not have much time to play in the band at the bar or runs on my hog. Which was by the way a 1952 fully chopped pan head.
All that gave me an education in business. By the time I was twenty-five I had operated in business that ranged from construction to gold mining in Mexico. And then things got interesting and fun. Trouble today is I have retired four times. I find it hard to not get involved in some business deals. That’s why I took up the hobbies of understanding about religion and the history of mankind. Always wanted that sailing trip around the world but my health stopped that dream. I live on a farm and I got to go and set water and feed the animals now. But I will finish my coffee first. What’s the hurry, I’m retired!
You are conflating a dozen different things here, none of which relate back to what you said before except they are loosely related to cows.
Either you get it, or you don’t. The cows are what makes the industrial dairies. The cows are worked by the illegals because the Americans will not work in the dairies. The government regulations that govern larger business were shutting down the large dairies labor pools. The milk processors were looking at moving to South America. The Soybean market was doing great there and maybe the milk industry would also fair well. The illegals were the ones that proved the industrial dairies could operate here once the IRS backed off because the co-employer laws of leased labor were not yet established, and the government did not want to go to court because they would win. But the changing the labor laws would affect the defense industry which also uses up to 85% leased labor contractors and a high percentage are from other countries. The only difference is the defense does not use illegals. But once the courts start changing the reciprocity system of the labor laws with other countries, the IRS courts will fill up fast and it will get political. It is that simple.