The Shame of America

Politics and Social Issues
41

My brother, who is an american citizen, told me a few weeks before the election that there will be problems, that the judges would give their sentence and that every one would admit their decision as the legitimate result of the election, even if disagreeing, as in the Gore/Bush duel.

Wat he underestimated is the degree of untrust of many people in any institution. In fact, this untrust is felt not only by trumpists but by many people even moderate and that’s true not only in USA.

For instance, the Bush lies about chemical weapons in Iraq have damaged public trust. When it happens once, people say that it is the result of one man political ambitions. When it happens repeatedly, they conclude that it comes from the system. And when they are paranoïds, the conclude to an universal plot.

From memory, in “The Mass Psychology of Fascism”, W. Reich told that Naz.ism was the expression of the character structure of the German people of his time.

I think that Trumpism is the expression of the character structure of not only the american people but of many people in west. And that makes me afraid.

USA had the chance of having strong institutions.

In 1922, Mussolini took power in Italy, after a march, the king giving him the power, and he was supported by the right, by business, and the military. Happily for USA, this time, the conditions were not fulfilled. For me, Trump demonstration was a tentative coup d’etat on a minor mode, a dice throw. He had no chance of success.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Rome

 

 

 

42
Wat he underestimated is the degree of untrust of many people in any institution. - morgan
The polling is barely keeping up with the shifting loyalties. And polling is difficult because many people feel they are part of some secret society. They aren't. Anyway. The ones I saw this morning show 12% approving of the actions seen on Wednesday. Yes, that's still high. If you have 1% supporting your mission statement, you can influence change in this country. They had that a long time ago and we just made jokes about them and dismissed them and cried when one of them shot our children. We completely the boat and now it's a fight that our children will have to take on.
43
We aren’t headed toward civil war. -- blue
I haven't studied that, just watched as my friends slowly lose their minds on social media. but I agree.

What I see this week is the lines being drawn. I thought it would happen a long time ago, when people were hitting people at Trump rallies, but it took this to get the people on the fence to go home. The next “rally” will not have as many innocent and misinformed bystanders. It might be a stronger force, more guns, but that will just make it easier to follow rules of engagement and start rounding them up.

44

I’ll admit, I was a little complacent with the crap that has been going on the past 4-5 years. Thinking this is just a short window in time and trumpism will fade away. The MAGAts will find another cause and remain loosely disorganized.

But what it actually did is slowly expose weaknesses and vulnerabilities. A more savvy “leader” could have done much more damage to America.

And if we/they are not more diligent someone will take the reigns. Cruz looked like he was trying to ride trumps coattails, I’m not sure of his current position.

I mentioned elsewhere (and was disagreed with :wink: ) that Mitch was more or less just giving trump the rope to hang himself. (success?) … forgetting that his wife was a cabinet member, which probably lead to him hiding in his shell much of the time when it came to trump’s antics.

 

45
@mrmhead, that Mitch was more or less just giving trump the rope to hang himself. (success?)
Trump is still sitting behind that desk in the Oval Office, and I still don't see him hanging from any lamppost, the way he would be were there any justice in this world.

I’m curious what have you seen that makes you think Mitch has done anything to save America from this descent into malicious political chaos?

46
I’m curious what have you seen that makes you think Mitch has done anything to save America from this descent into malicious political chaos?
Nothing - that's my point.

I think he, and a lot of others were of the mindset of Go along to Get along and just weather this storm called Trump. Mitch still has/had his own agenda, but didn’t push too much in favor of trump (like Cruz), but no, he’s done practically nothing to stop the trump train.

Before this latest shitshow, I thought it was possible that there would be a Trump 2024 campaign. He’s burned that bridge, and any that try to support that notion should fall into the abyss with him.

 

47
Before this latest shitshow, I thought it was possible that there would be a Trump 2024 campaign. He’s burned that bridge, and any that try to support that notion should fall into the abyss with him.
McConnell burned his own bridges when he refused to hold the first impeachment hearings and thereby aligned himself with Trump and his "policies".
48

I feel that you are over optimist about Trump candidacy in 2024. If he has not been condemned, and if he wins he primaries, he will be candidate. Even if Republican leaders don’t want him, many republican electors are still behind him.

And remember that he missed his reelection by very few votes in very few states.

In France, we have a saying: Never bury politically a politician before he be 6 feet under, and check first !!!

 

49

Not if he gets impeached. He’ll lose the right to run. Besides, he may be in prison by that time.

50
I am afraid we are witnessing the start of a full-blown civil war.
The war began months before the people elected Trump. The Dems realized the people would not allow the coronation of Her Royal Clintoness and began preparing for revenge. There has not been a day since that they have ceased waring at Trump. A "peaceful transition of power" did not happen.

Now there are calls to crush Trump and prevent any possibility of him returning to the political arena. What do the Dems think they will win if they succeed? They act as if their problems will be solved if they remove one man they rear. They should fear the millions who voted for him. Even if Trump is removed, the conservatives are not going away.

Do they not realize that Trump didn’t defeat HRC, that it was the people who voted against her? Trump is no more than a general in the “army” of the conservatives. When a general falls, another takes his place. Killing off - politically - Trump will only harden the resolve of conservatives. There are several who can take his place in 2024.

51
What I see this week is the lines being drawn. I thought it would happen a long time ago, ...
What you have seen this week is the same thing that the Japanese saw when they attacked Pearl Harbor, the great (normally) silent majority in the USA stirred to life and stood up. I think the Dems are right to be afraid. They should be very afraid. Many, if not most, of the millions who voted for Trump, share the idea that (to make a very bad misquote) "in as much as you do it unto Trump, so you do it unto me."

Biden has the opportunity to either calm the waters or fan the flames. Biden’s statement that he agreed with Trump’s decision to not attend the inauguration was spiteful and only shows him to have acted as a small man. A statesman would not have said that and certainly not in that way. If Biden really wants to bring the nation together he should apologize to the nation and say that he should have said, and does say now, that he welcomes anyone who wants to attend, including Trump.

If Biden wants to stop the war, and have any chance of bringing the country together, he will state now that his first act as President will be to pardon Trump for any and all actions which might be seen as unlawful during Trump’s entire tenure as President. Only in this way can he make a clean break from the last four years. If he doesn’t his legacy is likely to be the second US civil war.

52

I’m no Biden fan, but . . .

Gotta love the double standard

Logic, why doesn’t that treasonous pig Trump owe America an apology???

You recommend that Biden’s first act is to okay the totally treasonous lawless of that Russian Obligate crook.

He’s been shitting on his Oath of Office from day one - and it’s just fine with you?

( Telling his mob that he’s going to march on the capital with them, then hiding out in his White House - doesn’t bother you one bit, eh. Cult Worship is such an ugly thing.)

You want to destroy this country don’t you ibelieveinlogic not. Because that’s the only place this trump cult is capable of taking anything. After you, trump and the rest are done with this country, all that will be left is a vandalized broken up mess, like what they did inside the capital hill offices.

You have allowed yourself to become a cultist.

So very sad. Trump fanning the COVID-19 monstrosity to be as destructive as possible isn’t enough for you, now you still want to see how much worse it can get. Well, I imagine, fear, you’ll get your wish.

53

You need to get your facts straight. Trump encouraged his supporters to march to the Capitol not into the Capitol. And he said quite clearly afterwards that they should go home and that we must have peace.

All that really happened, except for the Capitol Police killing one woman (and where is the outrage over that?) is that the crowd scared the hell out of a bunch of wimpy politicians. Unlike the Burn Loot Murder and Anti Free America crowds the demonstrators did not burn, loot or occupy the area for days.

All the fake outrage is just another overblown attempt to give the fake media some fantastic headlines.

54
The war began months before the people elected Trump.
If you want to back up the clock, go back to when that old white guy (I forget who it was, by now) said his #1 job was to make the Obama administration fail.
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If you want to back up the clock, go back to when that old white guy (I forget who it was, by now) said his #1 job was to make the Obama administration fail.
That was McConnell !
56
All the fake outrage is just another overblown attempt to give the fake media some fantastic headlines
I am so glad you are correctly blaming Trump as the real culprit in this National disaster. If you don't you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Look at Trump’s history and use that logic you are so fond of. Where Trump walks, flowers wilt, things get broken, and people die.!

57

If anybody still believes there was no plan or coordination. here is a small detail;

DC Police said two pipe bombs and a cooler of Molotov cocktails were found near the US Capitol Building while Trump supporters began to riot in the area, eventually breaking into the building.

MSN


This means that there was a local bomb maker who had made the bombs and delivered them near the site, and a bomber (probably from out of state) who did not have to travel with bombs, but only needed to pick them up and place them on site.

The more we learn the more ominous this “protest” is becoming. Let no one underestimate the terrible acts “commited” people can comit.

Remember this was no break-in of an empty storefront.

Congress was in session and valuable government officials were on site and in session, easy targets for a well organized coup. This is reminiscent of the NAZI Beer Hal Putsch which landed Hitler in jail for treason.

p.s. not all out-of-state insurgents made it to Washington. The FBI intercepted several monitored suspects on their way to Washington before they got there. The more we learn, the more complicated this becomes. This was a plot to overthrow the government by a Deep Conspiracy.

 

58

Here’s the Shame of America, we knew from day one, trump was a conman, a crook, a bully, sociopath, narcissist, a reality TV host that hated our government and everything about it, a man who’s heroes were dictators. A man who didn’t pay his bills, who didn’t read, couldn’t care less about history, or science, or people for that matter - oh and let’s not forget he hated our government before running for office. Holy poop, the guy made his political bones with a lie about Obama’s birth certificate - ALL OF IT COMMON KNOWLEDGE TO ALL FLAG WAVING AMERICANS, because of the decades old media trail of the proud celebrity pussy grabber.

We knew who that trump was! What did we expect, except for worse than we could imagine? Boy of boy did the monster deliver. Great job Republicans, Gingrich and Stone must be proud.

What kind of mentality rationality justified voting for such a person that was guaranteed to make every decision based on his own personal interests in total disregard for consequences, except that vandalizing our government was his job one.

59
This was a plot to overthrow the government by a Deep Conspiracy!
Based on believing utter lies and a desperate need to make everyone else the enemy, while never taking responsibility for their own actions.

Nor any interested in learning, or expanding their outlook on reality.

60

Reminds me of an abusive person who accuses his beating victim of , "See what you made me do? "