So who won who lost the debate?????

https://youtu.be/66l9HY-ZujA

I don’t like these “who won, who lost” a political debate, because IMHO it influences people’s votes, instead of allowing people to make up their own minds. In essences, it is influencing the election. The actual winner will be the one who wins the primary election. I see nothing wrong with listening to the debates, but to state who won and who lost it before the election, seems to me to be influencing the election, unless it is an individual’s personal opinion and not the media’s. Then it’s just opinion, but if the media that does it, who better to influence an election and decide who runs against the dotard, possibly making the dotard win? The media, of course, and we know the dotard has his hands in the media and even the weather now too. I rather not listen to media’s view/analysis of who won and lost a debate and make my own decision. Listen to the debate and not the media’s analysis. Of course, an exception might be Politifact and some other fact checking sites, because you can’t take everything candidates say as fact either.

Well, nobody really won much of anything anyway.

Beto made some waves by declaring “Hell yes, we’re going to take away your AR15’s and AK’s”!

Biden looked fine except seemed to get a senior moment toward the end.

Castro tried to forcefully imply that Biden was forgetting something he had said 2 min prior.

Yang is going to give $1K per month to 10 citizens for a year, out of his campaign donations.

Mostly, otherwise, everyone made a decent showing, but no breakaways.

 

The Democratic presidential debate: A million miles from American social reality

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/14/pers-s14.html

While all the candidates claimed that they would withdraw from Afghanistan—a worthless pledge they made in previous debates—there was silence on Trump’s ratcheting up of economic and military pressure on Iran, his arming of Saudi mass killing in Yemen, the continuing civil war in Syria, and the sharp turn to the right in Israel, including the Trump-Netanyahu policy of annexation of the Golan Heights and, likely after the Israeli elections, large parts of the West Bank.

None of the candidates could address the fact that it was the eight years of Obama that made President Donald Trump possible. Hillary Clinton ran in 2016 as the continuator of the Obama administration, the candidate of Wall Street and the military-intelligence apparatus, and significant sections of working people either turned to Trump in despair or refused to vote at all.

8 years of Obama, brought us out of the worst recession since the Great Depression, and into the longest economic recovery period in our history. If u want to claim that Obama, being a black POTUS, elicited and brought out the suppressed and repressed racism that Trump feeds on and incites his base with, and thus helped Trump get elected, then, I can buy that.

But the nonsense about Obama being the candidate of Wall Street and the military industrial complex, is simply reflective of the crap that was necessary due to the destruction of the economy that took place under George W.

Working people that didn’t vote for Hillary or who did vote for Trump, were chumps. Young people who were all caught up in Bernie being “cheated”, and thus didn’t vote for Hillary or did vote for Trump, were chumps.

 

Yes they understood that Obama was a fake and Clinton would continue the charade

What? Was that sarcasm Player?

Reflecting on the change Obama promised to bring but it was all more of the same and the consciousness of the working class with a clinton presidency

So can you clarify your statement so there is something to debate?

You want to debate why people rejected Hilary?

Obamacare was not “more of the same”. Blaming Obama for not bringing more change than he did is a tired and deceitful trope. His slogan was “Yes We Can.” But when he was elected he was abandoned to do it all on his own. Big changes are not going to be made in our govt, without bipartisan support (and that was not going to happen with the Repubs) or without control of the full legislative branch along with the Presidency, and WE did not give him continued control of the legislature.

 

The only thing to debate about Hillary is whether we would be better off with her as POTUS or Trump. It is crystal clear that we have a MUCH worse SCOTUS with Trump (and probably so for generations to come). We are losing our standing in the world community every day with Trump’s “America Alone” policy. Trump is a liar who has lied more just as POTUS than Hillary ever did in her entire public career. Trump has brought more corruption to the administration in his 1st 3 yrs than Hillary could have in 2 full terms. Trump is actually making progress in his desire to become an autocrat. He has hinted that he will not stop at 2 terms in office. He may not even step down voluntarily if he loses the next election. He has elicited dormant racism and partisan division to come to the fore, in our country, and he feeds it almost daily.

Lies have been told about Hillary for decades, some of them completely ridiculous, but which many still believed. But even if she would have turned out to be a subpar POTUS, I don’t believe that she could be but a fraction of the destructive fiasco that Trump is.

I am of the firm opinion that anyone who did not vote for Hillary in 2016, screwed our country over. Our effective choice was Hillary or Trump. That was all. Hence a vote for Trump, or a non-vote for Hillary, gave us Trump. We were screwed over by chumps.

What do you say to those that hated trump and Hillary?

Same thing. One of them was going to be POTUS. Trump was by far the worst choice. A forced choice between acid reflux and cancer, should result in the choice of acid reflux. By not voting for Hillary, the chumps gave us the alternative.

Like Clinton supporters not voting for obama?

Player said,

You want to debate why people rejected Hilary?

Not everyone rejected Hillary and no that’s not what I meant. I meant how do you relate President Obama as more of the same as the Clintons? If you are referring to both of them being Dems, then yes, they are the same in that they go by the Democratic platform and not the Repug platform. Otherwise, I don’t know how you compare them to being more of the same. I could say that of Nixon and the Dotard for that matter. They’re both criminals.

Player said,

Like Clinton supporters not voting for obama?

ROFLMAO! I supported the Clintons AND President Obama. I also voted for both Bill and Hillary, so that statement is too all inclusive to be true. In fact, I am an unashamed Dem voter since the first time I voted, despite my grandfather demanding everyone vote for Reagan and they all being Repugs. I guess, you could say I’m the black sheep of the family and proud of it. That said, my Repug family (excluding my sons who also support the Dems) are also Fundamngelicals to the extreme, while my sons and I are not.

Player said,

Yes they understood that Obama was a fake and Clinton would continue the charade

Player, you’re going to hate me for this, but the dotard had helped from Putin in stealing the election. He’s the fake president, IMO. He’s in bed with Putin, passing on lies and propaganda and he uses HIS fake news channel Faux News to spread his B.S. He hasn’t done anything for anyone, not even his supporters, unless by supporters you mean the NRA and KKK, then he has- stoked the flames of racism and bigotry. That’s about all he’s done, as well as ran the economy into the ground after President Obama had it going for the better. The dotard has also ruined the U.S.'s reputation with other countries and made our environment worse as he puts more money into the CEOs of large corporations, while we may or may not get scraps. Actually, since he removed some of the environmental protections, we get poison- poison in the air we breathe, poison in the water we drink, poison in the food we eat. Then we have to deal with gun crazy people using weapons of war to gun us all down when we use to be able to shop and work without such worries and no one was armed. Anyone who tells you everyone needs a gun is spewing NRA crap and to buy one only puts money in the NRA’s pocket. Not only that, how the hell do you know who is the good guy when everyone is shooting each other, saying they are trying to shoot bad guys? You can’t. What you have is everyone trying to shoot each other. We need a solution to gun violence, but that’s not it and no one needs AR 17s or any other weapon of war, not even for hunting. If you need a 100 rounds to shoot a deer, you suck at hunting and probably shouldn’t be hunting.

“but the dotard had helped from Putin in stealing the election”

It’s a fizzer. If you have proof of the Russian rigging the voting machines and forcing people to vote trump let me hear it please.

 

Otherwise it’s all sour grapes and no personal responsibility for a SHOCKING campaign

Another useful comparison is to 2008, when the question was whether Clinton supporters would vote for Barack Obama or John McCain (R-Ariz.) Based on data from the 2008 Cooperative Campaign Analysis Project, a YouGov survey that also interviewed respondents multiple times during the campaign, 24 percent of people who supported Clinton in the primary as of March 2008 then reported voting for McCain in the general election.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/

I think 24% is not that impressive of a number, because 75% is a lot bigger. Thus, 75% of Clinton supporters did not vote for McCain. I supported Bernie primary and then voted for Hillary in the final. I also voted for Bill many years before that and I never voted for McCain, though I did see some good in him when he explained to the old woman that President Obama was not a bad person, Muslim, or any other things she was afraid of. Still didn’t vote for McCain, so I fell into the 75%.

As for proof that Russia rigged our election, please read the Mulleur report. His report shows that the dotard is a criminal who had help from Russia in stealing the election from Hillary. Sadly, I can’t upload my copy of the report, but you can find it here from your news site too: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/read-the-mueller-report/