Chomsky vs a rookie
Sounds depressing.
Though it’s nice to see you back missinggirl.
Israel is an apartheid state like south Africa was.
[A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution | HRW]
And some Israeli Jewish say the same
[https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid]
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict began in the 1870s!!!
The Ottoman authorities then estimated the population of Palestine at 465,000 inhabitants, including 405,000 Muslims, 45,000 Christians and 15,000 Jews. These statistics, established for tax purposes, do not take into account the Bedouins, nor the approximately 9,000 Jews of foreign nationality, or benefiting from the protection of a European consulate in Jerusalem.
Between 10,000 and 20,000 Jews then arrived in Palestine. Many left.
The land was therefore in the possession of the Muslims and cultivated.
In 1891, a Jew wrote: “We are accustomed to believing, abroad, that Palestine is an almost entirely desolate land, an uncultivated desert, a fallow field, where anyone wishing to buy land there could go and acquire it at will. In reality, it is not: in all this land, it is difficult to find a field of unsown arable land.”
He adds that “the Arabs, especially those in the cities, see and understand the meaning of our actions and our aspirations in Palestine; but they keep quiet. They pretend not to know anything because, for the moment, they see no danger for their future.”
However,
“The day when the presence of our people takes on a dimension which encroaches, by a little or a lot, on the positions of the natives, it is not willingly that they will give up their place to us.”
His conclusion is all the more severe:
“If, truly and in good faith, we want to achieve our ends on the land of our ancestors, we must not hide from ourselves that we are heading towards a difficult war which requires careful preparation” and with “good weapons”
Therein lies the origin of the conflict.
Sorry, le Monde is in French
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There are over 362,000 Palestinians that are citizens of Israel and vote. Palestinians are members of the Knesset (Israel’s parliament). There are Palestinians in Israeli military.
The Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip are considered stateless.
Tell me, how can you call Israel apartheid when the West Bank and Gaza Strip Palestinians don’t want to be Israeli?
They call it occupied land. But legally it belongs to Israel. The occupation is the Palestinians. That is a legal fact. Where are the Palestinians lands? The answer is Israel. Just check the DNA. The Israelites and Palestinians came from the same Canaan tribes. Jews were kicked out of Israel, and many came back as Ashkenazi Jews but most Jews say DNA has no part in religion.
Tell me, would you call America a apartheid nation if Colorado wanted to separate and form its own nation and we stopped it?
That said, Israel needs to make changes. Israel is both a Jewish and democratic state. It can’t be both. Problems will exist until Israel is all democratic.
Another problem I see is that history is not being correct. There are no Palestinians from ancient history living in the land that is called Palestine. Same with Israel. Most of what is now call ancient Israel was really Judah.
The problem is most of the people of Palestine are young and are there because they were born as part of a welfare state. The more children, the more income. They have no ties to Palestine or Israel like people in other nations have to their country. They want to put food on the table. Islam nations are using the Palestinians to generate a religious war with Israel. Rudy Rochman was kicking this around but would not get into the religion by name. Chomsky is refusing to go there either. Chomsky is trying push the rules of laws with the UN and leaving out the religious law with Islam.
My view is that Noam Chomsky is in a boat on dry land. He is talking about Palestinians as people controlled by a Palestine government. He can put his oars in the sand. He will not get anywhere until he starts working on the religious problems instead of hiding behind religion.
Who wants to take in the Palestinians? No countries want to take in the Palestinians. We have here in America, and we also got the Islam views of expansion, which is against our democratic values. Where the Jews who came here also kept there religion. But became part of America. Jewish and Islam is a branch of religion from the same God. As an America I do not want to fight a religious war.
That’s not the subject of me post, but i will answer:
The Israeli colonies in Palestinian territories are illegal !!! They are implemented in territories UN reserved for Palestinians. the International court of Justice has judged so.
Palestinians are not illegally occupying lands their ancestors have cultivated for centuries, without any break.
Yes Palestinians and Israelis share the same DNA. does it give Israelis the right to expropriate Palestinians lands ?
It was not a religious conflict when it began, it was a conflict for land.
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I believe it has been a religious conflict for the past 2000 years.
The Jewish persecution has a long history that dates back thousands of years 1 2. It has been characterized by anti-Judaism, religious sentiments against Judaism, and hostility or prejudice against Jewish people 2 4 5. The Nazi Holocaust is history’s most extreme example of anti-Semitism 5
First century
(Editing Timeline of antisemitism (section) - Wikipedia)]
19 CE
Roman Emperor Tiberius expels Jews from Rome. Their expulsion is recorded by the Roman historical writers Suetonius, Josephus, and Cassius Dio.
38 CE
Thousands of Jews killed by mobs in the Alexandrian pogrom, as recounted by Philo of Alexandria in Flaccus. Synagogues are defiled, Jewish leaders are publicly scourged, and the Jewish population is confined to one quarter of the city.[10]
50 CE
Jews are ordered by Roman Emperor Claudius “not to hold meetings”, in the words of Cassius Dio (Roman History, 60.6.6). Claudius later expelled Jews from Rome, according to both Suetonius (“Lives of the Twelve Caesars”, Claudius, Section 25.4) and Acts 18:2.
66 CE
Under the command of Tiberius Julius Alexander, Roman soldiers killed about 50,000 Jews in the Alexandria riot.
66–73 CE
The First Jewish–Roman War against the Romans is crushed by Vespasian and Titus. Titus refuses to accept a wreath of victory, because there is “no merit in vanquishing people forsaken by their own God.” (Philostratus, Vita Apollonii)[citation needed]. The events of this period were recorded in detail by the Jewish–Roman historian Josephus. His record is largely sympathetic to the Roman point of view and it was written in Rome under Roman protection; hence it is considered a controversial source. Josephus describes the Jewish revolt as being led by “tyrants,” to the detriment of the city, and he describes Titus as having “moderation” in his escalation of the Siege of Jerusalem (70).
70 CE
Over 1,000,000 Jews perish and 97,000 are taken as slaves following the destruction of the Second Temple.[11]
94 CE
Fabrications of Apion in Alexandria, Egypt, including the first recorded case of blood libel. Juvenal writes anti-Jewish poetry. Josephus picks apart contemporary and old antisemitic myths in his work Against Apion.[12]
96 CE
Titus Flavius Clemens, nephew of the Roman Emperor Vespasian and supposed convert to Judaism is put to death on charges of atheism.
100 CE
Tacitus writes anti-Jewish polemic in his Histories (book 5). He reports on several old myths of ancient antisemitism (including that of the donkey’s head in the Holy of Holies), but the key to his view that Jews “regard the rest of mankind with all the hatred of enemies” is his analysis of the extreme differences between monotheistic Judaism and the polytheism common throughout the Roman world.
Hence the Jewish vow: “Never again”
Not according to Israel. Remember the UN is a political non-profit organization and Israel is a state. When states go to war and lives are lost, landownership sometimes changes. To have a non-profit come along and tell a state what to do is political.
That is true of Resolution 181 part II. But then a war happened, and Jordan & Egypt got control of territory.
That’s the way I see it too.
But the Rules of Laws come into play. We have the same thing going on right now with Formosa (Taiwan).
Palestinians may have occupied the land. But the ultimate ownership of God over land is assumed and requires all rights to be exercised within the Islamic legal and ethical framework with a redistributive ethos.
The understanding is that all land ultimately belongs to God.
The way I remember what was taking place years back was Israel was using lawfare to move Palestinians off their land. It did not seem right at the time.
I agreed. Historians also say it was fueled by migration.
Aside from the political necessity of Gaza residents having to move, why is everybody talking about the Gaza strip Palestinians having to move to Egypt or some other country? They have a land called the West Bank which adjoins Jordan.
And why does’t Israel trade some land attached to the West Bank for Gaza?
Because Israel wants the whole land , and the land empty of any Palestinians.
Get to the root of the issue.
In the left corner is Iran’s state religion of Twelver Ja’afari Shia Islam. The Quran says the ultimate ownership of God over land is assumed and requires all rights to be exercised within the Islamic legal and ethical framework with a redistributive ethos.
In the right corner is Israel with land in perpetuity [Leviticus 25:23].
The trading of land would work in the western world but not in Iran’s world.
They basically believe they already own the Israel land. It has been taken from them. They want their believers to fight to get it back. They are to die before giving up any of God’s land. America has paid to teach the young Gazans the Shia Quran beliefs. Not to bright.
Map of religious land owned by Islam religion.
This map is off topic and senseless as historically inaccurate. In fact it shows all the places where Muslims armies set foot, and not at the same time.
The raided south of France, but never controlled much beyond the Pyrénées.
Constantinople stayed under christian control, up to the time Spain was conquered back.
Russia, Poland Ukraine were under the controls of Mongols, but were pagans and converted to Christianism. And all the Mongols did not convert to Islam. Conquest of India was very late.
And so .
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The map says “Areas Under Muslim rule at one point or another in history”. China today wants to claim all the China Sea and Formosa because of ancient history.
According to Islamic teachings, fighting to defend Islam and protect Muslim communities from oppression is permissible in certain situations, including attempting to regain lost territory, if done with just cause and following Islamic principles of warfare.
What is practiced and what is in the Quran could be like the bible. What people say and believe does not always follow the bible.
My viewpoint is that Israel and the US is in the way of Iran taking over Egypt and controlling the canal. It is all about the canal. Iran has turned Egypt into a Muslim country and in 2012 took the presidency. It was overthrown by the military a year later. There are still over 600 brotherhood groups in Egypt.
Louis Theroux’s “The Settlers” (2025) — full documentary.
My last trip to Israel/Palestine I met a lot of Settlers. Their hatred, racism, and entitlement is over the top and they proudly proclaim it as long as there are soldiers with machine guns standing right next to them.
Too much true for many of them …
Israel security cabinet approves plan to ‘capture’ Gaza, official says. All thats missing is the gas chambers
Sure, Israelis are the bad guys. The Nazi “final solution” was a Jewish idea, how creative can one be?
Or should I ask, how distorted can the truth be represented ?
Tell me again who started this latest effort by Hamas to drive the Israelis into the sea?
Gaza war
The Gaza war[q] is a war between Israel and Hamas-led Palestinian militant groups[r] in the Gaza Strip and Israel since 7 October 2023. It is the 15th war of the Gaza–Israel conflict,[84] and it continues the Middle Eastern crisis.
The first day was the deadliest in Israel’s history, and the war is the deadliest for Palestinians in the history of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.[85]
On 7 October 2023, Hamas-led militant groups launched a surprise attack on Israel, in which 1,195 Israelis and foreign nationals, including 815 civilians, were killed, and 251 taken hostage with the stated goal of forcing Israel to release Palestinian prisoners.
Yes, living prisoners being held for war-crimes against Israel
After clearing militants from its territory, Israel launched an intensive bombing campaign and invaded Gaza on 27 October with the stated objectives of destroying Hamas and freeing the hostages.
Are you making the argument that Israel did not have the moral right to retaliate in defense of their country? Interesting take on who has the right to engage in war and who has not.
Just to refresh your memory, it was Hamas who did the killing of Israeli civilian hostages as a “negotiation tactic”.
Autopsy finds 6 hostages were shot multiple times at close range in last 48-72 hours
Recent reports indicate that Hamas has killed Israeli hostages in Gaza. The bodies of six hostages were found in a tunnel in Rafah, and autopsies revealed they had been shot multiple times at close range2. The killings occurred shortly before Israeli forces arrived in the area.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/autopsy-finds-6-hostages-shot-multiple-times-at-close-range-in-last-48-72-hours/
I don’t know what greenie is saying haha 6 the time, but the I would make the case that Israel is not acting in retaliation, in defense, or morally.
Oh, I do. They have been persecuted and on the defensive for 3000 years. Comes a point where one has the right to defend their very existence. That is part of the natural selection process. It is how the lowly Cobra survives. It kills everything that tries to eat it, except maybe the mongoose.
I was responding to the allegation that Israel engages in gassing Palestinian prisoners. Whereas it is recorded history that it is 1.1 million Jews who were gassed by the Nazis during WWII.
Are Israelis gassing Palestinians prisoners in Iraeli concentration camps?
That is the latest accusation against the Jews being publicly projected. Do you see the false continuation of the intent to commit genocide against the Jews, because it is the Jews who are responsible for all the war-crimes committed aginst humanity?
Not the Jews. The israeli zionists and the zionists including the Christian zionists , around the world are the modern day NAZIS.