No, not at you personally. But you could use the appellation of "Everyman" if you wish because I meant that ALL of us are in the same boat, uh raft here. those who scream "there outa be a law" yet do nothing about it themselves aren't helping to navigate the raft to safer waters. My post was meant as a challenge to everyone to involve themselves in this effort to for want of a better phrase, save ourselves and our fellow species via the methods I listed. We're only powerless if we allow ourselves the luxury of apathy. Cap't JackWe are all just as apathetic and as powerless as we are determined to be. :roll: Lois
I know VA. I just jumped in here to say that Gary The Human was right. We can try to educate people, but if they don’t want to listen for whatever reason then what? Like Gary said, “People have more pressing issues." And rightly so.Then it's more of an issue of multitasking; handling the day to day problems while working on the bigger picture as well, those of us who have the time that is. But everyone is now plugged into the media via Facebook, the Internet, TV with a blue million talk shows and just plain old fashion gossip. It really doesn't take much effort to get the word out now and the more people who are informed the more action that will be taken by "our leaders" so to speak. And as to apathy, unfortunately it can't be regulated and that is why, in some cases we have the leaders everyone constantly whines about but few realize that the the power to make changes lies with them. They make the decisions for all of us and they can be persuaded by polls and letter writing campaigns. I mean how hard is it to click a button at the bottom of a petition? I can do that while I'm buying apples or checking the time. Cap't Jack
We are all just as apathetic and as powerless as we are determined to be.Then at least let us all determine not to be powerless. Cap't Jack
Ah, yes, if only that were possble. LoisWe are all just as apathetic and as powerless as we are determined to be.Then at least let us all determine not to be powerless. Cap't Jack
Ah, yes, if only that were possble.It may sound like wishful thinking Lois but I've actually seen it happen more than once on the local, state and national level. It either takes getting people really motivated or pissed off to get them to move on an issue but it can happen. That's the one superlative thing about the sixties that I miss. The country's youth were far more politically motivated then. Cap't Jack
Don’t give up now, the problems with getting the average person to take climate change as a serious problem are not just that you are stepping on some major economic toes, but also that it does not have an immediate serious everyday impact on most people.What I was trying to point out above is that we all must keep working to reduce or adapt to climate change, but that we must also understand the viewpoints and concerns of everyday people if we want to succeed,. Calling them, ignorant deniers isn't going to get the job done. Most people have serious everyday concerns that take a much higher priority than any long term problem such as climate change; also they do not see any quick or easy solutions to this type of problem. i.e. a major source of contaminants causing climate change is the industrialization of countries such as China, India, Brazil etc. however this industrialization has lifted hundreds of millions of humans, just like us out of poverty. So this makes the question of how do we reduce climate without sacrificing this or do we force these peoples to remain in poverty so we can reduce climate change. We here in the West have achieved the highest living standards in history by polluting the environment doesn't mean we have the right to keep other people from improving their economic condition because of pollution.
What I was trying to point out above is that we all must keep working to reduce or adapt to climate change, but that we must also understand the viewpoints and concerns of everyday people if we want to succeed,. Calling them, ignorant deniers isn't going to get the job done. Most people have serious everyday concerns that take a much higher priority than any long term problem such as climate change; also they do not see any quick or easy solutions to this type of problem. i.e. a major source of contaminants causing climate change is the industrialization of countries such as China, India, Brazil etc. however this industrialization has lifted hundreds of millions of humans, just like us out of poverty. So this makes the question of how do we reduce climate without sacrificing this or do we force these peoples to remain in poverty so we can reduce climate change. We here in the West have achieved the highest living standards in history by polluting the environment doesn't mean we have the right to keep other people from improving their economic condition because of pollution.Climate change is happening right now and is often devastating on a personal level. People around the world are losing their homes, livelihoods and lives due to the extreme weather connected with climate change, how is this not a top priority for everyone. As it continues the effects are going to get worse not less severe, some places like coastal Bangladesh are going to completely disappear under the waves and some of the most important agricultural areas of the planet are already suffering from things like rising sea levels. What happens when salt water intrusion destroys the bulk of the prime rice growing areas in the Mekong and Yangtze deltas. It's no longer a question of raising people out of poverty, it's about trying to control a situation that has a very real possibility of changing the environment around us to the point where it will it only support a tiny fraction of the number of people now alive.
What got people politically motivated was the draft. I seems to have worked miracles with the lumpen proletariat and those in the higher strata of society in the 60s. Maybe we need it again to get the young off their fat behinds and off their smartphones, though it might take somewhat more than a draft to move them to act now.Ah, yes, if only that were possble.It may sound like wishful thinking Lois but I've actually seen it happen more than once on the local, state and national level. It either takes getting people really motivated or pissed off to get them to move on an issue but it can happen. That's the one superlative thing about the sixties that I miss. The country's youth were far more politically motivated then. Cap't Jack
The problem is that there are still strong deniers. A local NPR program called “Left, Right & Center” had a strong right wing guest on, yesterday, and he gave a very scientific, logical, well reasoned presentation on why global warming is a farce. The only problem was that essentially all of what he said was false, however, a person without a background could easily be completely convinced that it doesn’t exist. It’s going to take really obvious and painful effects for people to react, and by then it may be too late.
Occam
The problem is that there are still strong deniers. A local NPR program called "Left, Right & Center" had a strong right wing guest on, yesterday, and he gave a very scientific, logical, well reasoned presentation on why global warming is a farce. The only problem was that essentially all of what he said was false, however, a person without a background could easily be completely convinced that it doesn't exist. It's going to take really obvious and painful effects for people to react, and by then it may be too late. OccamThe problem is that we are, right now, feeling the effects of global climate volatility, and the deniers refuse to accept it. At least they refuse to consider that 7 billion people burning something or having something burned for them has anything to do with it. They refuse to consider anything that might interfere with profitmaking. That is their bottom line and nothing else matters. Lois
What got people politically motivated was the draft. I seems to have worked miracles with the lumpen proletariat and those in the higher strata of society in the 60s. Maybe we need it again to get the young off their fat behinds and off their smartphones, though it might take somewhat more than a draft to move them to act now.Nah, the sixties were a bust so far as the greater picture. All those enlighten kids who turned into money grubbers, and evangelicals, or just plain fell into line like a bunch of bricks in the wall, and allowed consumerism (and entertainment) to become the center of their lives - while allowing this fragile biosphere we depend on to get ravaged into tatters. The 60s, like Orson Wells, such promise and light, only to grow into a fat lazy sad cartoon of itself. :down:
Nah, the sixties were a bust so far as the greater picture. All those enlighten kids who turned into money grubbers, and evangelicals, or just plain fell into line like a bunch of bricks in the wall, and allowed consumerism (and entertainment) to become the center of their lives - while allowing this fragile biosphere we depend on to get ravaged into tatters.Whoa there CC; speak for yourself man. Many of us joined the Peace Corps, were active in the Civil Rights Movement, fought against the war, fought for denuclearization, joined service organizations, and here in Appalachia fought against strip mining. Many more became teachers, nurses, public defense attorneys and worked for the ACLU. Some became doctors and gave up driving cadillacs to work in poverty stricken areas for verrrry low pay and are still in the field. So not all of us became money grubbers bent on self gratification. Cap't Jack
Yea, yea, OK, I'll take my lick'ns - after all I like to think of myself as one of those positive results of the 60s/70s. Still there were so many of us back then, and so few now days, what happened? :red:Nah, the sixties were a bust so far as the greater picture. All those enlighten kids who turned into money grubbers, and evangelicals, or just plain fell into line like a bunch of bricks in the wall, and allowed consumerism (and entertainment) to become the center of their lives - while allowing this fragile biosphere we depend on to get ravaged into tatters.Whoa there CC; speak for yourself man. Many of us joined the Peace Corps, were active in the Civil Rights Movement, fought against the war, fought for denuclearization, joined service organizations, and here in Appalachia fought against strip mining. Many more became teachers, nurses, public defense attorneys and worked for the ACLU. Some became doctors and gave up driving cadillacs to work in poverty stricken areas for verrrry low pay and are still in the field. So not all of us became money grubbers bent on self gratification. Cap't Jack
Yea, yea, OK, I'll take my lick'ns - after all I like to think of myself as one of those positive results of the 60s/70s. Still there were so many of us back then, and so few now days, what happened? :red: The Internet.Nah, the sixties were a bust so far as the greater picture. All those enlighten kids who turned into money grubbers, and evangelicals, or just plain fell into line like a bunch of bricks in the wall, and allowed consumerism (and entertainment) to become the center of their lives - while allowing this fragile biosphere we depend on to get ravaged into tatters.Whoa there CC; speak for yourself man. Many of us joined the Peace Corps, were active in the Civil Rights Movement, fought against the war, fought for denuclearization, joined service organizations, and here in Appalachia fought against strip mining. Many more became teachers, nurses, public defense attorneys and worked for the ACLU. Some became doctors and gave up driving cadillacs to work in poverty stricken areas for verrrry low pay and are still in the field. So not all of us became money grubbers bent on self gratification. Cap't Jack
Yea, yea, OK, I’ll take my lick’ns - after all I like to think of myself as one of those positive results of the 60s/70s. Still there were so many of us back then, and so few now days, what happened?I really don't have a clue but I've been trying to drum up some interest within this generation but sometimes it's like trying to fly a kite with no wind. As long as you're running the kite stays up but the minute you stop... . They scream "there outta be a law" then go back on Facebook and whine about why the team lost the last game and how the coach should be fired. I had a fleeting moment of hope when the Occupiers hit the streets, but then the kite fell down again and the one percenters laughed and laughed. I guess the issues that united us nationwide and sent us into the streets to protest for positive change don't seem to matter to the present generation, yet. Wait until they lose some of those rights, like voting, or unionizing then maybe. Cap't Jack
they need a giggling smilie around here 
The problem is that there are still strong deniers. A local NPR program called "Left, Right & Center" had a strong right wing guest on, yesterday, and he gave a very scientific, logical, well reasoned presentation on why global warming is a farce. The only problem was that essentially all of what he said was false, however, a person without a background could easily be completely convinced that it doesn't exist. It's going to take really obvious and painful effects for people to react, and by then it may be too late. OccamAnd this] just in from Wyoming. Seems the state legislature wants to block new high school science standards because they will require teaching about evolution and global warming. Hmm... one of the world's largest coal producing regions doesn't want its students learning about global warming. Coincidence or conspiracy?
FL:
It’s no longer a question of raising people out of poverty, it’s about trying to control a situation that has a very real possibility of changing the environment around us to the point where it will it only support a tiny fraction of the number of people now alive.Maybe to you getting out of poverty isn't to problem, but to a large part of the world's [population it is. If you and your children were starving or dealing with disease would you still be worried about "some places like coastal Bangladesh" that you most likely have never heard of, going under water. The point I am trying to make is that while global warming is a serious problem and must be dealt with, their are other problems, more immediate to many people, that must be dealt with as well. Until we recognize this we are not going to be successful.
Heh, heh. Geez, how I miss Calvin & Hobbes.
Occam