Meanwhile Trump is Guilty

No one called me on the fact that most primary filing deadlines don’t expire until after we expect the articles of impeachment to be filed, then a month after that being long enough to do the senate trial. Thus the whole impeachment process could be done by New Year’s.

 

Meanwhile… the certainty grows of T rump being clearly brazenly and extraordinarily guilty of abusing the power of his office in order to influence Ukraine to dig up dirt on his current top polling political rival. The certainty grows with the congressional testimonies of each new govt official who would not accept the President’s order (to not testify) over a congressional subpoena commanding testimony.

When this comes down to the Senate vote. A lot of Republicans are going to have to decide whether they will go down in history as a fraud and lackey of T rump.

If only 20 of them have the integrity to vote to remove T rump from office, our long dark nightmare of T rump could be at an end.

Sometimes when I’m watching the news I like to switch over to FOX to see what their spin is. Cuomo and Lemon on CNN mainly interview people on their shows, even Republicans. When they’re stating their opinion, they making it clear that it’s their opinion. I was watching Hannity last night on FOX and he was just doing his best to poison the minds of his viewers, ranting about how the Democrats are mad dogs, full of hatred for the very name Trump. He was calling the impeachment hearings unconstitutional and illegal, talking about secret meetings and secret testimony. “I have sources that tell me…” about witness after witness saying that Trump was innocent of all charges but for some reason those witnesses don’t make it to the news, only the “handful of quotes that make it SEEM that Trump is guilty…” He was literally calling it a coup d’état to overthrow the lawful government! I have to wonder how he can get away with saying such inflammatory things, unless everyone knows that it’s just partisan rhetoric and no one takes it seriously.

You ever notice that during the Fox “opinion shows” the “Fox NEWS” logo is prominently displayed?

But really, this is nothing new. Republicans are fearmongers. Fearmongering is their main source of support and has been as long as I’ve taken notice of politics. They’re getting a lot of mileage out of the “He’s gonna git’cher guns!” one even still. That one they’ve used for decades. And by the time their doom and gloom predictions should be coming to pass they’ve stopped talking about them long enough for people to forget. Nobody notices that people are NOT applying for marriage licenses between one man and one horse as the fearmongers said would happen if we allowed gay marriage. But it kept gay marriage at bay for a few decades, at least. And even though it’s now legal, like they do with abortion rights, they can pick at the edges for decades longer to keep that crazy base happy, disguising their disgusting bills as anything but what they are.

So, same old shit that has always gone on, really. Just now instead of “What A” Rush Limbaugh on the radio only if you work with a lot of Republicans it’s Fox “We’re Pretending This Is” News on the TV any time you want a cheap thrill from hearing some “news” that might scare you.

@advocates

Sometimes when I’m watching the news I like to switch over to FOX to see what their spin is. Cuomo and Lemon on CNN mainly interview people on their shows, even Republicans. When they’re stating their opinion, they making it clear that it’s their opinion. I was watching Hannity last night on FOX and he was just doing his best to poison the minds of his viewers, ranting about how the Democrats are mad dogs, full of hatred for the very name Trump. He was calling the impeachment hearings unconstitutional and illegal, talking about secret meetings and secret testimony. “I have sources that tell me…” about witness after witness saying that Trump was innocent of all charges but for some reason those witnesses don’t make it to the news, only the “handful of quotes that make it SEEM that Trump is guilty…” He was literally calling it a coup d’état to overthrow the lawful government!
I have done exactly the same.

I admit I have bias; if anyone claims they don’t, they’re full of shit, because everyone does. So, I DO look at “both sides.” And while I don’t claim the mainstream media is perfect, I see a HUGE difference between the talking heads there vs. on FOX. Huge.

Compare the TONE of political commentary programming on MSM & NPR, PBS, etc. The mainstream outlets talk about EVENTS, and FOX talks about the mainstream media outlets!!

It boggles the mind that this is not objectively obvious to all … and yet I regularly see Right-Wingers blast people like George Stephanopolous, Anderson Cooper, Don Lemon, and Lester Holt as disrespectful and unhinged. WTF??

 

To be fair, Huffington Post is about as far left as Fox is right. I don’t check the extremes from either side. If I can’t trust them they’re not worth considering.

I haven’t used Huff Post much at all these days, but do you really think they are as equally biased as FOX News?

There are a few solidly unbiased TV news networks. Newsy is one. BBC America is one. Then there are networks (e.g., CNN and MSNBC) that are biased against T rump, but are not flat out liars like FOX. Then there is OAN which is a majorly biased for the right station, but pretends to be pure in it dedication to the USA.

I haven’t used Huff Post much at all these days, but do you really think they are as equally biased as FOX News?
Yes, I do. To be fair that is based off a single article, the last Huff Post article I ever read and am ever likely to read. Republicans were trying to pass the new overtime rule which allowed employees to opt in to taking time and a half off paid instead of getting overtime pay. According to the article it was the most egregious employee abuse ever. It would force single mothers to work during their kids' dance recitals and force them to take time off when their kids were at school. It would allow employers to trample the rights of their employees. It would bring about the return of the Third Reich.

Naturally, I read the bill. It was short and to the point. It was opt-in. Employees couldn’t be forced to do it. There were limits to the amount of time they could bank before the employers had to simply cash it out for them. It did not change how the employee’s schedule would be handled AT ALL. Employers could ALREADY dictate when employees had to work and when they could take of, have been doing that for as long as I’ve been alive and that wasn’t addressed in the bill. There was NOTHING in there even mildly malevolent or abusive, and I really looked because I really do not like or trust Republicans. And it was around the time I still had fresh wounds from Bernie supporters, so I was developing a healthy skepticism for my own side. That article was utter alarmist garbage. It was literal lies. The bill was actually decent. It gave employees an option they could choose if they wanted and reject if they did not.

Just because they’re on the same side as me doesn’t mean that I’ll excuse hyperbole and lies from them. I want news, truth. I don’t want spin and I certainly don’t want lies. That is the day the Huff Post became a liberal rag paper to me, exactly the same, in my mind, to Fox. If they can allow that to be published they have no integrity. Yes, much of the media is slightly left leaning. The country is becoming more liberal so, obviously, the media, made of of the people in that country, is going to do the same. But you should never blatantly see it like that. Once you can, you’ve reached “Foxdom”.

I certainly see where you’re coming from. I don’t like deception of the public, from any quarter, either.

Watched this Frontline last night, about Stephen Miller’s influence. Scary. Miller has survived a lot of firings, the guy really knows how to manipulate Trump, and through him, a lot of people.

I haven’t watched the Frontline yet, but I wanted to say that Stephen Miller may be the most evil person in the T rump administration. And that’s saying something.

I haven’t thought about Frontline for years (we did the whole cord cutting thing a few years ago and never looked back). But I have now added it to my shows to look for. I’ll definitely check it out, if it’s available. And almost everything is these days. Even Racheal Maddow is streaming on the free NBC Roku app.

Oh, Lausten, that was as bad as what Tim has been doing to me lately. Look up the word “despair” and think about its meaning before you post this kind of thing, man! I’m spiraling here!

I am new to this forum. I am neither democrat nor republican. I am x military, and for 20 years I would not vote, but last election I went to the polls and voted against both parties. I wrote in Mickey Mouse, Speedy Gonzales, Donald Duck, and the Three Stooges. I figured if my legislators were acting like cartoon characters, then I would vote for cartoon characters. So, I do not have a dog in this impeachment fight.

What disturbs me is that only hours after Trump was elected, some dems were crying for impeachment. Not even sworn in yet, and Trump was a target. I have witnessed first hand such hate in socialist/communist/dictatorships in the Philippines and other banana republics. I was in the Philippines when Ferdinand Marcus was kicked out in the 70’s. The people gathered by the hundreds of thousands in the streets of Manila with rakes, shovels, and pitch forks. (Marcus was evil and deserved removal, but it should have been a legal process first). Impeachment is certainly a legal process, but remember that it still legally overthrows an election.

I believe the American people should have the final say about Trumps removal, and I believe it will happen only one year from now. Trump will almost certainly be impeached by the House. Whose next? How about Pence? He is a right wing evangelical conservative. Should we just investigate, investigate, investigate, until we nail him on something? Investigate the Pope long and hard enough and we can have him removed too. Folks, this is what socialists/communists do, and they do it well. By the way, I was opposed to the impeachment of Bill Clinton for the same reasoning. Remove Trump by hate, and his base will be fired up for revenge. They will go to the polls in mass next election.

Meanwhile Trump is guilty of organizing a group of his cronies (some in and some not in his administration) of forcing the leader of Ukraine to announce that Ukraine will be investigating his political adversaries or risk losing the military assistance that they need to survive Russia. T rump is also guilty of just about constantly obstructing the Impeachment Inquiry. The Dems were virtually forced to begin this Impeachment process. Politically, it was not thought to be the most effective way to go, but when a POTUS is a criminal, with control of the Senate, these days, he is above the law. It is most consistent with our Constitution that T rump be impeached. To not impeach him, at this point would be an affront to our Constitution.

It would also be extraordinarily bad judgment to leave him in office. Because that would mean that he can not just break the law, but <b>to break the law however he wishes, in order to win the next election.</b> And you don’t think that he will? Look at his character. Look at how he has conducted himself in office. Of course, he will do whatever crime or dirty trick that he can get away with, to keep and get more power.

Even World Series fans realize the guy needs to be put away. “Lock him up!” the crowd shouted at the game he just attended.

 

@William

You imply that T rump is just a regular guy who is a victim of investigations done by his adversaries. As if he has committed no crimes. As if he has never done anything to warrant suspicion. He is a criminal POTUS, who for now and maybe throughout another term and beyond, is above the law.

The very real prospect of an Autocracy is at hand. If he becomes Dictator of the United States (DOTUS) then you might worry about Socialists and Communists, because they will seem, at that point, to be a great alternative.

 

 

Welcome to the forum William. Always good to get a different perspective. Maybe you can help me out because I really don’t get it. There is a lot of evidence that Trump has committed actual crimes. How do you dismiss that? There is a pattern of obstruction and lies. All worse than anything a President has done in the last 50 years, so your comparisons just don’t work for me. Nor do the proceedings compare to a show trial in a dictatorship. They are moving at the slow pace of law, as perhaps they should. We can’t wait for years to get out chance to have a vote while the crimes continue. Who knows what he will do if he isn’t stopped.

I could list everything, but I’ll stick to the highlights and let you pick anything you want to respond to.

Lied about releasing his taxes.

Emoluments clause is meaningless, we have no accounting of how he has profited.

Guilt by association with everyone who has been indicted and convicted.

Paid off a hooker to keep her mouth shut.

Had his lawyer work with Russians to get foreign money for his campaign.

Ignored Congress on the giving of aid to the Ukraine, until forced into doing it.

Used that aid to coerce them into starting a fake investigation that would hurt Biden.

I do not imply anything. People In this forum quote the Constitution regularly, and spit out accusations and hate. At present, Trump is under investigation, and he should rightfully be, but it needs to be an “open” investigation, not held behind closed doors ( Socialists hold trials behind closed doors). Trump has not been accused of anything legally and will not be until he is tried by the House. Under the Constitution, one has committed no crime until “ due process” convicts them. Socialists/communists accuse and convict before due process. Trump may be a bad president, but he is yet to be convicted. Thirty two million dollars of taxpayers money has already been spent, and no charges have been levied. I just say he should receive his rights under the Constitution. He should get a fair and unbiased trial. With all the accusations and hate mongering, I doubt that he will. Right now, Trump is not guilty. That doesn’t mean he is innocent.

So many facts to check.

I assume you are referring to the Russia investigation for the $32 million, with many charges, indictments and convictions. Are you saying it’s purely coincidence that so many people Trump hired and worked with committed crimes, but he didn’t? Also, some of those came with fines, to offset those costs. Plus, the charges are in the report, but Mueller didn’t have the authority to file them as charges. It’s because of people like you that Democrats are being cautious.

I would like to know what law you think has been broken. Closed door testimony is perfectly normal and legal. Without it, witnesses could change their stories or government secrets could become public.

Of course he’s been accused, legally, how do you think the law proceeds? First there is suspicion with some evidence, then an arrest, then investigation and more evidence, then a trial. The only thing special about impeachment is we don’t put the President in jail awaiting trial. Surely that makes sense.

Please respond to the conversation you started, rather than shifting to something new this time. Or are you conceding that there are valid reasons to investigate him?

Most important, I am not a lawyer or part of Congress. I won’t have all the information they do, but I am charged by the Constitution with making a decision. I choose who to vote for based on how they react to the information that is public. That includes letting my congress people know how I will vote if they don’t do something about criminal activity in the White House. So all this stuff about waiting and no one is guilty until proven so is part of the process, but me making a judgment and using my brain is also part of the process.