And I most likely overreacted to your post. This is an emotional topic for me because I was raised to respect women. Reading about men I admired for their eloquence and courage to stand up for atheism and humanism harassing women at conventions and even raping women gets me riled up. Must be the Texan in me.I feel exactly the same way Darron, and maybe it's my naïveté referring to secular humanists and atheists. I've worked with women in my profession for over 30 years and always regarded them as professionals and equals. This nudge nudge, wink wink attitude of sexual harassment and physical abuse belongs in biker bars. But at a skeptics convention? Hell no. But, like you, that may be the Kentuckian in me. Cap't Jack
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I wouldn't mind at all getting raped by a woman. :-)How about by a man?
I wouldn't mind at all getting raped by a woman. :-)Wouldn't it depend on what she looked like? A little off topic, but what about the situations where a women lies to a man about birth control in order to become pregnant and get child support? Could that be considered sexual harassment of some sort? Yes it would be. But it happens much less than you might imagine. A lot of men try to use that as an excuse, however, to get out of paying or to explain the situation to his friends or family and make himself look like the victim. It's one area where women have the upper hand and men have no control--except by making sure he never makes a woman he's not married to pregnant and that he either gets a vasectomy and has his sperm count tested regularly or uses a condom every time, never depending on the woman to be using birth control. At the same time he should realize that if she gets pregnant anyway, he has to pay, legally and morally. There is no moral or legal way around this, sexual harrassment or not. A man should never have sex with a woman unless he knows and accepts this particular fact of life. If all things were equal, it could be deemed to be "not fair." but there are a lot of things in life that are not fair. It's the way our society works that a father has to be sure his progeny are taken care of--even if--and especially if, he thinks he should be off the hook if he can claim she tricked him. There is an innocent child to consider, and that takes precedence in our society. So keep your pants zipped and you can never be taken advantage of in this way. Lois
Old story (before DNA testing), but I enjoyed it. A woman in Sweden took a guy to court for child support. Being a wise-ass, he got five of his friends to testify that they had also had sex with the woman. The judge’s verdict: “Since we can’t tell who’s the father, she is a very lucky child because I order each of the six of you to pay child support.”
Occam
Old story (before DNA testing), but I enjoyed it. A woman in Sweden took a guy to court for child support. Being a wise-ass, he got five of his friends to testify that they had also had sex with the woman. The judge's verdict: "Since we can't tell who's the father, she is a very lucky child because I order each of the six of you to pay child support." OccamThat's a good decision but I would bet it would never happen in the US. Before DNA, this was a typical defense when a woman accused a man of fathering her child. I don't know of a case in the US where the judge required all of the "witnesses" to pay child support, but it would have been the right thing to do. Instead in the US the mother was considered a prostitute or a "loose woman" and in most cases got nothing because "it was her fault" for being loose. This is what happens in a patriarchy with patriarchal courts. DNA has prevented most of these travesties of justice. Lois
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George, I think it might be better intended that you mean: it would be nice to get raped by a woman (or person) you desire.Ok, fine. No idea you were such a skilled debater.
I find it hard to believe that Bill Nye would be guilty of sexual harassment. Some years ago, he had to take a restraining order out against one of his ex-girlfriends, as she couldn’t grasp the idea that he no longer wanted to be with her. IIRC, she was even arrested after breaking into his house.
Doesn’t mean that he isn’t capable of doing it, of course, but given what he’s been through, it seems unlikely to me that he’d want someone to go through a similar experience.
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I was wondering when the 2 ton elephant would be addressed here…
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I wouldn't mind at all getting raped by a woman. :-)How about by a man? Good one!! The interesting thing about such a view as what George stated also points to how most women even still adhere to the dominance of men in action rather than usual lip service to the contrary. That is, while it is politically correct or "proper" etiquette to declare a supporter of NO-means-NO agenda, in actuality, if men do not play the "game" that demonstrates one's perseverance, they are not likely to ever even get laid, let alone find a long-lasting relationship. This is because BOTH men and women enforce the very stereotypes that create the environment for potential abuses. George, I think it might be better intended that you mean: it would be nice to get raped by a woman (or person) you desire. I think you'd have to admit that things might be different if this woman was your mother, for instance. In such a case, such a rape can frame all future relationships in a bad way regardless of how logically balanced you could try to be. I think the social cure would be to encourage education on communication logic to teach people how to determine the differences between languages within contexts. Also, to encourage a more powerful social change requires strategies that focuses on generic causal abuses between sexes instead of presenting men as essentially or naturally dominant and women being subservient and sole victims of concern. While these may have statistical truth on certain genetic bases, attending to this only encourages a continuation of the evolutionary momentum to stay the same in the future. Making all people responsible for their interactive roles in encouraging the stereotypes helps us better to recognize that we are all potential abusers and victims who need each other's involvement to improve the situation. The point is, if you want it to happen, it isn't rape. Rape is not "getting laid" and it is not "sexual intercourse". It is violence; it is abuse, pure and simple. But I expect a lot of men to continue defining it as sex rather than an attack. It suits their purposes. The way men define rape and talk about rape is a good indication of their feelings about rape. Every woman who thinks she would like to have a relationship with a man should find out by any means possible what he thinks about rape and how he defines it and she should not just take his word for it if she asks and he gives the "right" answers. She should try to find out how he speaks about it to other people, especially his friends. If he equates it with sex she should run. If he says he wouldn't mind being raped, she should also run because it's a perfect indication that he thinks it's sex, and that attitude probably will never change. Lois
Never mind.
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At the same time he should realize that if she gets pregnant anyway, he has to pay, legally and morally. There is no moral or legal way around this, sexual harrassment or not. A man should never have sex with a woman unless he knows and accepts this particular fact of life. If all things were equal, it could be deemed to be "not fair." but there are a lot of things in life that are not fair. It's the way our society works that a father has to be sure his progeny are taken care of--even if--and especially if, he thinks he should be off the hook if he can claim she tricked him. There is an innocent child to consider, and that takes precedence in our society. LoisThe child can be disposed of in one way or another. An example of this is that many young men in my generation don't take responsibility for fatherhood; often the girl's parents will take responsibility financially, and the girl will just date whatever guy will put up with her having had a baby. The father might have enough contact with his scion to be considered a worthless relative, but I guess if the girl doesn't care, then most guys won't be bothered. Basically, the attitudes towards family and responsibility that you've described are dying out.
Old story (before DNA testing), but I enjoyed it. A woman in Sweden took a guy to court for child support. Being a wise-ass, he got five of his friends to testify that they had also had sex with the woman. The judge's verdict: "Since we can't tell who's the father, she is a very lucky child because I order each of the six of you to pay child support." OccamThose men emigrated to Minnesota. :lol:
I only caught the last bit of this report, but in either India or Pakistan, the court found one of the guys who committed the gang rape and murder last year guilty. And he got a nasty, nasty sentence – three years. 
Occam