In the spirit of upcoming Valentine’s Day I wanted to ask about love.
To be honest I don’t really understand it that well. Is it the passion people feel fleetingly? Or something more? What do people mean by “the power of love” and all those things about love saving the world and whatnot, even loving yourself.
The more I think about it the more alien the notion seems to me, I just can quite wrap my brain around it. Personally I find the notion of doing things in the name of love is stupid, even irrational. People do crazy things for love, even when they come at great cost with no return. What gives?
People are irrational. In youth, we mistake lust for love. In middle age many people crave that feeling of lust and throw way good relationships. In old age some of us understand true love is letting you partner grow even at the risk of growing apart. The lucky few get to live with a long-term partner who reciprocates the love and knows there is no replacing the shared experiences.
We are emotional as well as rational creatures. Also, we ascribe meanings and narratives to our experiences, even to our emotions. Sometimes the meanings and narratives that we ascribe, work out well, sometimes not. But not everything that we do is going to be purely rational. e.g., What is rational about music? Seems to me that it is a mode of communicating emotionally. Sometimes music is beautiful, sometimes it can be discordant.
Excellent points, Tim.
In the spirit of upcoming Valentine's Day I wanted to ask about love. To be honest I don't really understand it that well. Is it the passion people feel fleetingly? Or something more? What do people mean by "the power of love" and all those things about love saving the world and whatnot, even loving yourself. The more I think about it the more alien the notion seems to me, I just can quite wrap my brain around it. Personally I find the notion of doing things in the name of love is stupid, even irrational. People do crazy things for love, even when they come at great cost with no return. What gives?Love is an ill-defined word. You can love your mother, your sister, your significant other, pizza, surfing, clothes, art, scary movies, your dog, football, discussion groups and a lot of things too weird or profane to mention. So what does love mean? How can we feel the same emotion for all of those people and things? It's a default word for positive feelings and doesn't actually mean anything much. So happy Valentine's day to you and every person, animal, thing and concept you "love." Lois
In the spirit of upcoming Valentine's Day I wanted to ask about love. To be honest I don't really understand it that well. Is it the passion people feel fleetingly? Or something more? What do people mean by "the power of love" and all those things about love saving the world and whatnot, even loving yourself. The more I think about it the more alien the notion seems to me, I just can quite wrap my brain around it. Personally I find the notion of doing things in the name of love is stupid, even irrational. People do crazy things for love, even when they come at great cost with no return. What gives?Well talking about the BIG love, not just the little Like/Love for things, the BIG love is something that you feel, not something you define. If you have kids, you know it. If you're married, and especially if you've gone through hard times with your spouse and came out still together, then I'm pretty sure you'll know what love is. But yes, it's nothing you can define.
It honestly all sounds pretty stupid to me. I’ve never felt that kind of love that would make me do something irrational for someone else. To me it’s the absolute height of foolishness and I don’t get why people do it. I don’t get heartbreak or why people care so much when things don’t work out. To me it just seems like a weakness really.
I don’t usually do this, but there is a great answer to this in the movie, “Hector and the Search for Happiness”. An intellectual sets off on a trip around the world to find happiness. His problem is, he isn’t very good at experiencing any of his own feelings, he rationalizes everything and tries to explain rather than feel. Without giving away the story, love is firing of all of those emotions. Love is allowing yourself to be vulnerable, to be frightened by the prospect of letting your guard down and showing someone you are weak and at the same time feeling safe with that person, feeling strengthened through the sharing of the experience. It’s hard to describe because it’s so many things.
It honestly all sounds pretty stupid to me. I've never felt that kind of love that would make me do something irrational for someone else. To me it's the absolute height of foolishness and I don't get why people do it. I don't get heartbreak or why people care so much when things don't work out. To me it just seems like a weakness really.Your idea of weakness is my idea of strength. It may be irrational and personal, but the fact that someone is willing to sacrifice for another is one of the greatest attributes one can have. I am a fairly rational person and I can analyze things with a clinical detachment that appears cold and unfeeling, but I also love my family to the degree that I would definitely do things that are harmful to myself and others in order to protect them. Maybe human love is equally as instinctual as the protective actions of bees or bears, only we have the complexity of personality and mind that turns the aggressive protective actions that other animals have into the complex emotions and feelings we call love. Regardless of it's origin, it's real and a strong influence on our society (especially the movie industry).
That’s the problem. People doing things against their better judgment all in the name of a fleeting emotion.
Feeling strengthened? Please. To live in this world you have to be ruthless and keep your wits about you. Love is just a weakness claimed to be a strength by those who are unable to do so. It’s iust like compassion.
That's the problem. People doing things against their better judgment all in the name of a fleeting emotion. Feeling strengthened? Please. To live in this world you have to be ruthless and keep your wits about you. Love is just a weakness claimed to be a strength by those who are unable to do so. It's iust like compassion.I enjoy enjoying life and I see the support of others as a good thing. If you don't enjoy what I enjoy and you want to isolate yourself then we are simply different people. I honestly believe that love makes our society and our lives better. There are many experiments and sad real-life examples that show how essential love is to the development of our mind. We are emotional beings - deny it at your peril. At a base level we could argue the short-comings of love and compassion, but, like many other things, without them we'd have a pretty dead and boring society.
... To live in this world you have to be ruthless and keep your wits about you...No. Most people live in this world without being ruthless. And most do not maintain constant wariness. I think that people who do maintain the modus operandi of being ruthless and constantly wary, tend to be people who have experienced the effects of ruthlessness and paranoia by others, at critical points. Just consider, then, the effects of a society, in which this was everyone's modus operandi. Ruthlessness and paranoia can "breed" ruthlessness and paranoia. Humans are emotional creatures. Often the emotions help us survive. Sometimes they are an impediment. Humans are, also, rational creatures, (some more than others, obviously). Thus some of us have an opportunity to be rational when considering our emotions. Denying our emotions can be effective as a temporary stop-gap measure, at best.
In the spirit of upcoming Valentine's Day I wanted to ask about love. To be honest I don't really understand it that well. Is it the passion people feel fleetingly? Or something more? What do people mean by "the power of love" and all those things about love saving the world and whatnot, even loving yourself. The more I think about it the more alien the notion seems to me, I just can quite wrap my brain around it. Personally I find the notion of doing things in the name of love is stupid, even irrational. People do crazy things for love, even when they come at great cost with no return. What gives?Well talking about the BIG love, not just the little Like/Love for things, the BIG love is something that you feel, not something you define. If you have kids, you know it. If you're married, and especially if you've gone through hard times with your spouse and came out still together, then I'm pretty sure you'll know what love is. But yes, it's nothing you can define. Sure, we know what it is, but we aren't saying it. We're still using the same word for almost every positive feeling. If it's BIG LOVE we're talking about, don't you think it deserves a special word for that only? Lois
That's the problem. People doing things against their better judgment all in the name of a fleeting emotion. Feeling strengthened? Please. To live in this world you have to be ruthless and keep your wits about you. Love is just a weakness claimed to be a strength by those who are unable to do so. It's iust like compassion.I enjoy enjoying life and I see the support of others as a good thing. If you don't enjoy what I enjoy and you want to isolate yourself then we are simply different people. I honestly believe that love makes our society and our lives better. There are many experiments and sad real-life examples that show how essential love is to the development of our mind. We are emotional beings - deny it at your peril. At a base level we could argue the short-comings of love and compassion, but, like many other things, without them we'd have a pretty dead and boring society. Maybe when we are young we need attention, but not love. Love has nothing to do with it, it is attention. Love is just some fleeting emotion people place far too much value in. I never said I wanted to isolate myself, I just said I see love as a weakness that can be exploited. People from what I see are just a means to an end. That fact that we are emotional beings is a flaw to me. If only we could be objective like machines we would be in far less trouble than we are now. Emotions are responsible for a lot more damage than good.
That's the problem. People doing things against their better judgment all in the name of a fleeting emotion. Feeling strengthened? Please. To live in this world you have to be ruthless and keep your wits about you. Love is just a weakness claimed to be a strength by those who are unable to do so. It's iust like compassion.Wow. I don't want to know what experiences have led to that kind of thinking. First, ditto on everything TimB said. Second, how is it bad to make a choice based not only on your own feelings and needs, but on the needs of others? I wouldn't be here if a few people didn't put my needs before their own for a few years while I was incapable of feeding myself, let alone defending myself. Then there's the larger community that saw the value in creating an environment where those few people could do that nurturing. Each small group willing to do what they could to contribute to that community and willing to leave all the others alone to do the nurturing and loving needed to result in you and me. I'm guessing you are under 25 Titanomachina.
That's the problem. People doing things against their better judgment all in the name of a fleeting emotion. Feeling strengthened? Please. To live in this world you have to be ruthless and keep your wits about you. Love is just a weakness claimed to be a strength by those who are unable to do so. It's iust like compassion.Wow. I don't want to know what experiences have led to that kind of thinking. First, ditto on everything TimB said. Second, how is it bad to make a choice based not only on your own feelings and needs, but on the needs of others? I wouldn't be here if a few people didn't put my needs before their own for a few years while I was incapable of feeding myself, let alone defending myself. Then there's the larger community that saw the value in creating an environment where those few people could do that nurturing. Each small group willing to do what they could to contribute to that community and willing to leave all the others alone to do the nurturing and loving needed to result in you and me. I'm guessing you are under 25 Titanomachina. Except in your scenario love depends on other people feeling the same way. Knowing people, I can beat that they won't follow my way of thinking and therein lies the strength.
In the spirit of upcoming Valentine's Day I wanted to ask about love. To be honest I don't really understand it that well. Is it the passion people feel fleetingly? Or something more? What do people mean by "the power of love" and all those things about love saving the world and whatnot, even loving yourself. The more I think about it the more alien the notion seems to me, I just can quite wrap my brain around it. Personally I find the notion of doing things in the name of love is stupid, even irrational. People do crazy things for love, even when they come at great cost with no return. What gives?Well talking about the BIG love, not just the little Like/Love for things, the BIG love is something that you feel, not something you define. If you have kids, you know it. If you're married, and especially if you've gone through hard times with your spouse and came out still together, then I'm pretty sure you'll know what love is. But yes, it's nothing you can define. Sure, we know what it is, but we aren't saying it. We're still using the same word for almost every positive feeling. If it's BIG LOVE we're talking about, don't you think it deserves a special word for that only? LoisYes a better word would be good. Maybe the phrase unconditional love??
It honestly all sounds pretty stupid to me. I've never felt that kind of love that would make me do something irrational for someone else. To me it's the absolute height of foolishness and I don't get why people do it. I don't get heartbreak or why people care so much when things don't work out. To me it just seems like a weakness really.I'm guessing you're pretty young, no kids, no spouse. An angry young man with his back to the wall.... as the Billy Joel song goes.
Maybe when we are young we need attention, but not love. Love has nothing to do with it, it is attention. Love is just some fleeting emotion people place far too much value in. I never said I wanted to isolate myself, I just said I see love as a weakness that can be exploited. People from what I see are just a means to an end. That fact that we are emotional beings is a flaw to me. If only we could be objective like machines we would be in far less trouble than we are now. Emotions are responsible for a lot more damage than good.Without the motivation of emotions, humans would have quickly become extinct. They are a necessary part of who we are as a species. (For one out of a possibly infinite number of examples): If parents, or surrogate/s who have charge of an infant, feels nothing for the infant, then they are unlikely to provide the attention and care that the infant needs. Such infants are likely to fail to thrive (be profoundly developmentally delayed in various ways) and possibly, even, die. OTOH, Sometimes emotions ARE motivating factors in promoting damaging behaviors. (Hence, in those conditions, enhancing objectivity is particularly important.) But, I think that, all in all, emotions are factors that, much more often, promote functional and necessary behaviors.
Except in your scenario love depends on other people feeling the same way. Knowing people, I can beat that they won't follow my way of thinking and therein lies the strength.Well, yes, I do count on that. I try to understand myself and I talk to others to see if they feel the same. That's worked out pretty well. I think you meant "bet" instead of "beat", but I'm still not sure what that 2nd sentence means. But I think you are relying on a world of mostly loving and trusting people, then you can manipulate that. There were some studies done using game theory a few decades ago that showed if enough people started thinking that way, the society would break down, and eventually you wouldn't be able to manipulate anyone because there'd mostly non-loving non-caring people around. It would be a pretty ugly world at that point. Conversely, (according to game theory) if everyone is too trusting, and never gives negative consequences to harmful actions, that won't work either. The balance is a sort of tit of tat. A measured response to non-loving behavior. I'll see if I can find the YouTube for you.