Sorry… Had to delete this post. Very impolite to do so, but I had to. My apologies.
I really wish I could help or offer some decent advise, Michelle, but that is far outside my ballpark. I’m just the opposite; I’ve sometimes wondered what it is that people feel when they talk about this powerful emotion, love. I really like people, my daughter being a number of rungs above anyone else, however, it’s all intellectual, not emotional. I enjoy being around people, but as soon as someone demonstrates craziness, I quickly walk away. It’s not attractive to me, and I’m not a therapist so I can’t help. My only suggestion, and it fits my personality, not others’, is to learn to recognize these problems in people and split as fast as you can. Avoid even slightly connecting with them.
And drink only soft drinks and don’t smoke when you are with other people. When I was younger I found that smoking and drinking went together. If I was at a party and did either, the other was sure to follow. A glass or two of wine alone before bed is fine, but not with other people.
Occam
I really wish I could help or offer some decent advise, Michelle, but that is far outside my ballpark. I'm just the opposite; I've sometimes wondered what it is that people feel when they talk about this powerful emotion, love. I really like people, my daughter being a number of rungs above anyone else, however, it's all intellectual, not emotional. I enjoy being around people, but as soon as someone demonstrates craziness, I quickly walk away. It's not attractive to me, and I'm not a therapist so I can't help. My only suggestion, and it fits my personality, not others', is to learn to recognize these problems in people and split as fast as you can. Avoid even slightly connecting with them. And drink only soft drinks and don't smoke when you are with other people. When I was younger I found that smoking and drinking went together. If I was at a party and did either, the other was sure to follow. A glass or two of wine alone before bed is fine, but not with other people. OccamHey Occam, (Deleted Text. Very sorry about that.) You're right, stay away from this shit, and I'm working hard... (Deleted Text.) You've mentioned your two glasses of wine before. I love it! That discipline and appreciation of the good things in life. - I need to learn from that, as right now I'm a fuck. I'm good, doing good, but some change is needed. I like to drink and have no problem with it being so, actually annoyed at the "recovery" thing, because it subdues all free thought to submit to a philosophy I utterly despise for "help". - But I do agree, remaining sober-minded would avoid a lot of this shit. All my own fault. I pretty much ask to be raped and beaten. Not really the best way to go about things. Still, it's almost an addiction. You hate it, and yet you lay your own trap. It's sick. I'm fine for tonight, enjoying it, we'll see what tomorrow brings... Thanks for your thoughts. Peace.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. Addiction is a bitch. I’ve never experienced that kind of obsession but I have seen it in others very up close and personal. I am not addicted to types except maybe smart people. I love intelligence, wit and snark. So I don’t go in for the hurtful dark side of human desires though I do know they exist.
When I first divorced I experiment with trying a lot of things I never could do before. One path led me to a bdsm club. I was very curious and wanted to learn what drew these people to this lifestyle. It’s was nothing I’d ever experienced before and was shocked and mortified and yet I kept going back because it made no sense and I needed to make sense of it. I learned about dominance and submission and a wide variety of kink including sadism and masochism. I found out I wasn’t very kinky. lol But mostly I found a lot of people have a lot of pain they are desperately trying to excise through one way or another.
The fact that you recognize the issues you have is a huge step. Please, keeping working to address them with every resource you can. People do get broken, but people can be fixed as well. Lots of hard work ahead of you. Avoiding the toxic life is one help thing you can do every day.
Coming here to find intelligent people to help you release some of that frustration is another. 
MzLee
Hey Michelle,
I am a sober alcoholic and addict and have be clean for 13 years plus. What you describe is very normal for people with substance abuse issues. You are correct when you say you are addicted to the chaos of this relationship. Our using careers are often filled with drama and crazy / dangerous behavior. When we stop drinking and or drugging, we often miss the excitement that being sober seems to have moved us away from. We begin to realize that we crave excitement much the same way we craved our substance of choice. If sobriety is not stimulating enough, we will do whatever it takes to recapture that old excitement. In the end, I discovered that the chaos and excitement where really just the high side of a manic depressive cycle. That could easily get me drinking again when I bottomed out after all that excitement. Active addiction is constant and dramatic highs and lows that become our version of normal. When we get sober, we hopefully learn to live our lives in a manor that is more calm and even, but punctuated with real life joys and disappointments instead of the dramas we used to need and create. It’s a way of living more as your authentic self instead of being drivin by manic depressive cycle that keeps you living in the familiar chaos of your party days. We can also start to see that we deserve better people and relationships in our lives instead of the people we used to be attracted to because we didn’t think we deserved any better. We were also attracted to problem people because we didn’t have to risk the rejection of someone we really respected.
Keep talking to whomever will listen. You are in a process of discovering who you are “without” addiction and the subsequent chaos. It is a wonderful journey and is often difficult, but well worth the time and effort. I wish you much success.
Danny
Hey Michelle, I am a sober alcoholic and addict and have be clean for 13 years plus. What you describe is very normal for people with substance abuse issues. You are correct when you say you are addicted to the chaos of this relationship. Our using careers are often filled with drama and crazy / dangerous behavior. When we stop drinking and or drugging, we often miss the excitement that being sober seems to have moved us away from. We begin to realize that we crave excitement much the same way we craved our substance of choice. If sobriety is not stimulating enough, we will do whatever it takes to recapture that old excitement. In the end, I discovered that the chaos and excitement where really just the high side of a manic depressive cycle. That could easily get me drinking again when I bottomed out after all that excitement. Active addiction is constant and dramatic highs and lows that become our version of normal. When we get sober, we hopefully learn to live our lives in a manor that is more calm and even, but punctuated with real life joys and disappointments instead of the dramas we used to need and create. It's a way of living more as your authentic self instead of being drivin by manic depressive cycle that keeps you living in the familiar chaos of your party days. We can also start to see that we deserve better people and relationships in our lives instead of the people we used to be attracted to because we didn't think we deserved any better. We were also attracted to problem people because we didn't have to risk the rejection of someone we really respected. Keep talking to whomever will listen. You are in a process of discovering who you are "without" addiction and the subsequent chaos. It is a wonderful journey and is often difficult, but well worth the time and effort. I wish you much success. DannyVery glad for your 13yrs plus. Glad you are here and happy you have a good life. :)
Thanx MzLee.
Alcohol and drugs are already as bad as they are, but mix that with human predators and you're really fucked. I haven't been beaten in almost two months, but what happened earlier this week was utter chaos. Fists are just a tiny component. Peace to y'all. Enjoy the weekend. MichelleAll I can do is laugh. Sounds like you're really living life to the fullest. Let it rip! :snake: You think you can pick up the pieces and put most of them back together down the road? When it gets too hard to keep putting the pieces back together and you find you keep coming up with less and less pieces each time... Hmnnn....
I read your OP just before you deleted. No need to apologize for doing that. I’ve written a few things I wish I could erase. I hear a lot of self awareness in your words. Robert Bly uses the symbols King/Queen, Warrior, Lover and Wizard that all of us have in us to some degree. He says if you have enough of the wizard, you can rebuild the others. It’s not magic, it’s more about the intellect, the alchemy of changing your self.
Telling someone to “be careful” always seemed silly to me, as if you hadn’t considered being careful and my telling you would suddenly make you start doing that. But I guess I just said it, so, there you have it.
I have to warn you, Michelle, the Administrator HATES it when someone deletes his/her post, especially as the original one because it means the entire thread no longer makes sense. In the future you may want to write what you want to say, then read it carefully to decide whether or not you want it up permanently before you actually post it.
Occam
I have to warn you, Michelle, the Administrator HATES it when someone deletes his/her post, especially as the original one because it means the entire thread no longer makes sense. In the future you may want to write what you want to say, then read it carefully to decide whether or not you want it up permanently before you actually post it.To clarify: in the past we have had rare problems with members who frequently deleted prior posts, making the forum a less interesting or welcome place for discussion. This led to the creation of rule 4(c)] about "Problem Members":
Members who engage in large-scale or frequent deletion of prior posts without due cause. Deleting prior posts disrupts the flow of threads, and makes it difficult or impossible to follow past discussions. Members wishing to remove more than a very small number of posts, or posts more than a few days old, should discuss this with Moderators by email or Private Message before doing so. Reasonable cases will be accommodated. While members are allowed infrequent deletion of problem posts, large-scale deletions without good cause may lead to warning or banning, at the discretion of Forum Moderators.Just FYI. Infrequent deletion of posts isn't an issue.
I'm sorry you're going through this. Addiction is a bitch. I've never experienced that kind of obsession but I have seen it in others very up close and personal. I am not addicted to types except maybe smart people. I love intelligence, wit and snark. So I don't go in for the hurtful dark side of human desires though I do know they exist. When I first divorced I experiment with trying a lot of things I never could do before. One path led me to a bdsm club. I was very curious and wanted to learn what drew these people to this lifestyle. It's was nothing I'd ever experienced before and was shocked and mortified and yet I kept going back because it made no sense and I needed to make sense of it. I learned about dominance and submission and a wide variety of kink including sadism and masochism. I found out I wasn't very kinky. lol But mostly I found a lot of people have a lot of pain they are desperately trying to excise through one way or another. The fact that you recognize the issues you have is a huge step. Please, keeping working to address them with every resource you can. People do get broken, but people can be fixed as well. Lots of hard work ahead of you. Avoiding the toxic life is one help thing you can do every day. Coming here to find intelligent people to help you release some of that frustration is another. :) MzLeeHi MzLee, thanks for your kind reply. The problem with addiction is, well, that you like it, otherwise you wouldn't do it, and hence it's so hard to break. I like intelligence as well, very big turn on to be able to learn from someone. The reason I like "dangerous" guys is pretty simple, goes back to my teens, they're able to defend you and protect you, and they do, but it can turn the other way, especially if alcohol and other stuff is involved. I'll keep posting my sentimental stuff if it fits, but I had to delete the original post on this one. Sorry about that. Michelle
Alcohol and drugs are already as bad as they are, but mix that with human predators and you're really fucked. I haven't been beaten in almost two months, but what happened earlier this week was utter chaos. Fists are just a tiny component. Peace to y'all. Enjoy the weekend. MichelleAll I can do is laugh. Sounds like you're really living life to the fullest. Let it rip! :snake: You think you can pick up the pieces and put most of them back together down the road? When it gets too hard to keep putting the pieces back together and you find you keep coming up with less and less pieces each time... Hmnnn.... I guess you could say that :) Picking up pieces is no fun. Eventually you get used to it. Not good! Need to change some things.
I read your OP just before you deleted. No need to apologize for doing that. I've written a few things I wish I could erase. I hear a lot of self awareness in your words. Robert Bly uses the symbols King/Queen, Warrior, Lover and Wizard that all of us have in us to some degree. He says if you have enough of the wizard, you can rebuild the others. It's not magic, it's more about the intellect, the alchemy of changing your self. Telling someone to "be careful" always seemed silly to me, as if you hadn't considered being careful and my telling you would suddenly make you start doing that. But I guess I just said it, so, there you have it.Hey Lausten, I do have a lot of self-awareness. I'm not blind to my stuff, although I'm sure there still are lots of blindspots. Gotta look up that Robert Bly. Never heard of him. I hear you. Will take it to heart. Thank you. Michelle
I have to warn you, Michelle, the Administrator HATES it when someone deletes his/her post, especially as the original one because it means the entire thread no longer makes sense. In the future you may want to write what you want to say, then read it carefully to decide whether or not you want it up permanently before you actually post it. OccamHi Occam... understood. Won't happen again. Michelle
I have to warn you, Michelle, the Administrator HATES it when someone deletes his/her post, especially as the original one because it means the entire thread no longer makes sense. In the future you may want to write what you want to say, then read it carefully to decide whether or not you want it up permanently before you actually post it.To clarify: in the past we have had rare problems with members who frequently deleted prior posts, making the forum a less interesting or welcome place for discussion. This led to the creation of rule 4(c)] about "Problem Members":
Members who engage in large-scale or frequent deletion of prior posts without due cause. Deleting prior posts disrupts the flow of threads, and makes it difficult or impossible to follow past discussions. Members wishing to remove more than a very small number of posts, or posts more than a few days old, should discuss this with Moderators by email or Private Message before doing so. Reasonable cases will be accommodated. While members are allowed infrequent deletion of problem posts, large-scale deletions without good cause may lead to warning or banning, at the discretion of Forum Moderators.Just FYI. Infrequent deletion of posts isn't an issue. OK. Thanks.
Hey Michelle, I am a sober alcoholic and addict and have be clean for 13 years plus. What you describe is very normal for people with substance abuse issues. You are correct when you say you are addicted to the chaos of this relationship. Our using careers are often filled with drama and crazy / dangerous behavior. When we stop drinking and or drugging, we often miss the excitement that being sober seems to have moved us away from. We begin to realize that we crave excitement much the same way we craved our substance of choice. If sobriety is not stimulating enough, we will do whatever it takes to recapture that old excitement. In the end, I discovered that the chaos and excitement where really just the high side of a manic depressive cycle. That could easily get me drinking again when I bottomed out after all that excitement. Active addiction is constant and dramatic highs and lows that become our version of normal. When we get sober, we hopefully learn to live our lives in a manor that is more calm and even, but punctuated with real life joys and disappointments instead of the dramas we used to need and create. It's a way of living more as your authentic self instead of being drivin by manic depressive cycle that keeps you living in the familiar chaos of your party days. We can also start to see that we deserve better people and relationships in our lives instead of the people we used to be attracted to because we didn't think we deserved any better. We were also attracted to problem people because we didn't have to risk the rejection of someone we really respected. Keep talking to whomever will listen. You are in a process of discovering who you are "without" addiction and the subsequent chaos. It is a wonderful journey and is often difficult, but well worth the time and effort. I wish you much success. DannyHi Danny, ... thanks. Yes, it's weird. It's a mess and you hate it but you still want it or need it. "Our version of normal" is a good way to put it. Pretty true. On the one hand you want peace and quiet, but then it gets boring and you want some stupid rush. Although I'm pretty fed up right now. Not interested in this sort of drama. That's very powerful what you say there about the kinds of people one is attracted to. Very true. I would never approach a "respectable" person thinking I'll get nowhere. What that says though, subconsciously, is pretty shitty. I'm going to AA once in a while. First time was when I was 18 actually. Long time ago. Only picked up a white chip once, and have been scared to do so ever since, as it made me even more depressed when I messed up. But I keep going. Just listening to the other stories helps a lot, as does talking. 13 years is a long time! Cool! Hats up. But what do they say? One day at a time. Best thing I ever heard. All the best to you, too! Michelle
Hey Michelle, I am a sober alcoholic and addict and have be clean for 13 years plus. What you describe is very normal for people with substance abuse issues. You are correct when you say you are addicted to the chaos of this relationship. Our using careers are often filled with drama and crazy / dangerous behavior. When we stop drinking and or drugging, we often miss the excitement that being sober seems to have moved us away from. We begin to realize that we crave excitement much the same way we craved our substance of choice. If sobriety is not stimulating enough, we will do whatever it takes to recapture that old excitement. In the end, I discovered that the chaos and excitement where really just the high side of a manic depressive cycle. That could easily get me drinking again when I bottomed out after all that excitement. Active addiction is constant and dramatic highs and lows that become our version of normal. When we get sober, we hopefully learn to live our lives in a manor that is more calm and even, but punctuated with real life joys and disappointments instead of the dramas we used to need and create. It's a way of living more as your authentic self instead of being drivin by manic depressive cycle that keeps you living in the familiar chaos of your party days. We can also start to see that we deserve better people and relationships in our lives instead of the people we used to be attracted to because we didn't think we deserved any better. We were also attracted to problem people because we didn't have to risk the rejection of someone we really respected. Keep talking to whomever will listen. You are in a process of discovering who you are "without" addiction and the subsequent chaos. It is a wonderful journey and is often difficult, but well worth the time and effort. I wish you much success. DannyHi Danny, ... thanks. Yes, it's weird. It's a mess and you hate it but you still want it or need it. "Our version of normal" is a good way to put it. Pretty true. On the one hand you want peace and quiet, but then it gets boring and you want some stupid rush. Although I'm pretty fed up right now. Not interested in this sort of drama. That's very powerful what you say there about the kinds of people one is attracted to. Very true. I would never approach a "respectable" person thinking I'll get nowhere. What that says though, subconsciously, is pretty shitty. I'm going to AA once in a while. First time was when I was 18 actually. Long time ago. Only picked up a white chip once, and have been scared to do so ever since, as it made me even more depressed when I messed up. But I keep going. Just listening to the other stories helps a lot, as does talking. 13 years is a long time! Cool! Hats up. But what do they say? One day at a time. Best thing I ever heard. All the best to you, too! Michelle AA certainly helped me a lot, but I never could swallow the god stuff so I found groups and people in AA that were not religious or were atheist to talk to. There are also other very good nonreligious alternatives to AA that I am certain can help you just as well as AA could. I only suggest that you join some kind of group for support, because what you are trying to do can be overwhelming for an army let alone an individual without support. You may want to see if there are any SOS groups around you, or you can google nonreligious recovery groups in general. Hang in there and don't be a stranger Danny
I don’t know where they are but I believe both CFI and the American Humanist Association have non-theistic groups equivalent to AA. I’m sure some of our members can post more info on these.
Occam
Hey guys… back and in good shape!!!
Yeah, AA does have religious tendencies. No doubt the steps work, but most of them I can’t agree with… too much “religious” stuff.
I think there is a secular group around here. A friend mentioned it. I’ll check it out!
Peace & Thanks!
Michelle / M.