Iran

Wow. Usa really pushing hard for a fight with Iran.

 

When do people think america will start a war with Iran?

No, the citizens of the U.S. are not pushing for war with Iran. The occupant of the White House and his cronies are. Why is it people in other countries think people in the U.S. want various things, when it is the stupid people in our government, their cronies, and a few minions pushing for these things? Personally, I’m not a fan of the dotard and what he does and there many others like myself. I’m hoping we get the dotard out of the office next election, if not impeach him before then, (as are others) and getting someone in office who doesn’t want war in the Middle East.

Because you say USA is a democracy

This is an echo of the same types of Neo Cons, who devastated our nation by getting us in the ill-fated and perpetually mismanaged Iraq war. Surely we will not fall for it again.

What makes you so sure ? American capitalism lives off war

What makes you so sure ? American capitalism lives off war

 

Unfortunately, that seems to have been the case since the end of WW2. President Eisenhower tried to warn the country about the military Industrial complex in 1961.

If the people who actually run the country think a war with Iran will benefit their interests, there will be a war. I used to think that congress had to declare war, but, Vietnam and Iraq especially gave the lie to that fantasy. But hey, I’m just an ignorant foreigner, what do I know.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YACJDbbGbY

Patrick . Then tell me which US war was just?

Patrick, you know MUCH more than many ignorant Americans.

WWII seems pretty “just” in retrospect.

I don’t think a war with Iran is imminent. I don’t think Trump wants it, tho some of his ppl do. And I don’t think those ppl have the wherewithal to pull off an Iran war, at this time.

120 000 troops into persian gulf. Us navy everywhere. They just tried to blame iran for damage to saudi tanker. Another gulf of tonkin false flag ahead

Timb you had to go back to all the way to Ww2? Wonder why? Even that is debatable with americas timing

“Patrick . Then tell me which US war was just?”

Honest answer: the term ‘just war’ is an oxymoron.

My perception is that wars are fought for one or both of two reasons:To take something the other chap has, or to stop the other chap taking something you have. Wars are started by cynical old men who con their gormless young men into going to a foreign country to kill their gormless young men. Each side in a war usually claims divine approval . The poor dumb bastards doing the actual dying will often fight for ideals or religious faith.

Not wars, government policy or relations between countries are due to moral or ethical considerations. Countries always act in their perceived best interest, and all relations between countries are quid pro quo. The payback can be money, trade or military/political favours such as bases in that country. Currently the US has a presence in the Middle East. That will not be relinquished any time soon.

I admit my perception is cynical, and not widely held. The theoretical position is called ‘realpolitik’,and it’s been around for a long time.

“Realpolitik (from German: real; “realistic”, “practical”, or “actual”; and Politik; “politics”, German pronunciation: [ʁeˈaːlpoliˌtiːk]) is politics or diplomacy based primarily on considerations of given circumstances and factors, rather than explicit ideological notions or moral and ethical premises. In this respect, it shares aspects of its philosophical approach with those of realism and pragmatism. It is often simply referred to as “pragmatism” in politics, e.g. “pursuing pragmatic policies”. The term Realpolitik is sometimes used pejoratively to imply politics that are perceived as coercive, amoral, or Machiavellian.[1]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

 

The Europeans have had Nicollo Machiavelli’s “The Prince” since the fifteenth century. The Chinese have had Sun Tzu’s ‘The Art Of War’ for over 2000 years.

 

 

So you agree. Nothing to do with freedom, democracy and human rights???

“Patrick, you know MUCH more than many ignorant Americans.”

Thank you for saying so.

 

WWII seems pretty “just” in retrospect.

“Seems”, indeed; both the Nazis and Japanese were very very obviously evil and a credible threat to western civilisation. Although we are loathe to admit it, many Aussies believe the Japanese would have invaded for Australia if not for the US. Specifically, the victory at the Battle of The Coral Sea.

“Seems”, indeed; both the Nazis and Japanese were very very obviously evil and a credible threat to western civilisation."

 

no they wernt. Threat to imperialism of other nations.

“So you agree. Nothing to do with freedom, democracy and human rights???”

 

Yes.

I’ll go further:

Freedom is a relative concept, and largely an illusion in real life.

‘Democracy’ is a one word oxymoron (if such a thing is possible) It has never existed in the sense of ‘majority rule’. EG Donald Trump did not win the popular vote , but was still elected president .It’s even worse in Australia; we have preferential voting, not ‘first past the post’. Athenian democracy was actually a form of government by referendum; IE every eligible voter voted on every important issue . Women and slaves could not vote. .

There are no such things as innate human rights. There are privileges, which can be, and are, removed by the powerful at will.

no right to clean drinking water? no right to medical care? no right to be educated? no right to have a home?

All these are only for the privileged? True in a capitalist economy

I want to adjust my thoughts on the possibility of war with Iran not likely being imminent. I do think that. Yet the possibility is not zero. In addition to the neocons in the current admin wanting it desperately, Trump has ties to Saudi Arabia and the Saudis want us to strike Iran. If Trump does find an excuse to strike Iran, and he thinks he can get away with a 1 or 2 time strike, in order to look tough and endear himself to the Saudis, he would likely do it. He would not want a larger war, but one thing can lead to another.

why are you silent on Israel on this matter?

Well, yeah, Nitwityahoo the Israeli Prime Minister is great buds with Trump also. He would, no doubt, also be happy with a US strike on Iran.