That explains a lot. I wish you would have said it earlier
We know this is all fundamentally based on religion.
An atheist comment here would be perceived as blasphemy.
Religions are dangerous belief systems. They lend authoritative exclusivity to the believer, even if it is based on different interpretations of the same god.
IMO, it is a form of insanity . 3000 years of fighting about an âideaâ?
Insanity that you defend.
I donât defend the insanity of war. I defend Israelâs right to defend themselves against any act of aggression.
What options does Israel have? Die a slow death from attrition?
One rule of war, make the enemy pay more than itâs worth. I believe that is what Israel is showing the world.
Remember: âNever againâ!
âNever againâ is a phrase or slogan which is associated with the lessons of the Holocaust and other genocides. The slogan was used by liberated prisoners at Buchenwald concentration camp to denounce fascism. It was popularized by Jewish Defense League founder Meir Kahane in his 1971 book, Never Again! A Program for Survival.
According to Aaron Dorfman, âSince the Holocaust, the Jewish communityâs attitude toward preventing genocide has been summed up in the moral philosophy of 'Never Again. 'â
What this meant was that the Jews would not allow themselves to be victimized
Never again - Wikipedia
CHUTZPAH CHUTZPAH CHUTZPAH !!!
Duhhhh !..
Have you ever been in a war?..
You cannot fund rights on facts from 3 000 years ago.
Israel rights are funded on UN resolutions, in the limits of these resolutions, it does not accept.
Peace needs some conditions, among them
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Recognizing that the creation of Israël has been very unjust for Palestinians and compensating them
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That both party accept the resolutions of UN, meaning the emptying of Jewish colonies in Cisjordanie
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That extremists of both camp are shut down.
Incidentally, Palestinians have been in Palestine as long as Jews.
2 Likes
Then why wonât they share? It is the Islamists that refuse to accept Jews and a Jewish state.
BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 719, January 18, 2017
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The existence of a living Jewish people in a functioning Jewish state threatens the very raison dâĂȘtre of Islam, which came into being to render Judaism obsolete. For that reason, Arabs and Muslims will never accept Israel as the Jewish State.
Unsurprisingly, Donald Trumpâs recognition of Jerusalem as Israelâs capital aroused massive outrage in the Arab and Islamic world. This was for two main reasons â one religious and one nationalist.
https://besacenter.org/muslims-israel-jewish-state/
It always comes down to that simple fact.
And why the fundamentalists Sionists refuse to share the territory ?
I wrote
I will add that
- That each party accepts the rights of the other one, but thatâs included in what was said before.
Why ? Fundamentalists are fundamentalists
And they are allied as each death caused by the other side reinforce them.
You may be right that some fundamentalist Zionists may want an exclusively Jewish state.
But the idea is to have 2 separate and sovereign states of Israel and Palestine, with friendly relations that allow for mutual trade and traffic.
The fundamentalist impulse in Israel is rooted in events that took place well before the countryâs founding in 1948. Since the destruction of Jerusalemâs Second Temple by the Romans in 70 CE (see Jerusalem, Temple of), most Jews had lived in the Diasporaâthat is, dispersed far from the land of Israel promised by God to the Jewish people according to the Hebrew Bible.
During their prolonged âexileâ (Hebrew: galut), Jews all over the world prayed daily for the coming of the messiah, who would lead them back to Israel and deliver them from their Gentile oppressors.
In the late 19th century, some Jews, primarily secular intellectuals such as Theodor Herzl (1860â1904), a Viennese journalist and playwright, concluded that the ancient problem of anti-Semitism could be solved only by the creation of a Jewish state.
Zionism, the movement to establish a Jewish state in Palestine, thus represented a secularization of the traditional messianic theme. Instead of waiting for God and the messiah to lead the Jews back to the land of Israel, Zionists argued, Jews should take it upon themselves to return there.
For Herzl and his closest associates, the messianic aspect of this âingathering of the exilesâ was irrelevant: the crucial point was to create a state where Jews would no longer be at the mercy of non-Jews.
Most Orthodox Jewsâand Orthodox rabbis in particularâwere opposed to Zionism, primarily because, in their view, it called upon humans to do what only God and the messiah could do. In traditional Judaism, the return to the land of Israel was inseparable from the messianic redemption of the people of Israel. Thus, returning to the land and creating a state would amount to defying Godâs will and would only postpone the real redemption and the real ingathering of exiles. Orthodox Jews also objected to the fact that Herzl and most other early Zionist leaders did not advocate a state based on strict conformity to Jewish religious law.
Modern Orthodox Jews strictly observe Jewish religious law but have nevertheless devised ways to participate in modern society, both in the Diaspora and in Israel. The ultra-Orthodox, in contrast, insist on separating themselves from Gentile society, as well as from Jews who do not follow the religious law as strictly as they do.
I cannot figure out what world you live in. Yes, thatâs the idea. Show me how Netanyahu is working toward that.
By showing that terrorist actions will never result in peace but in the extermination of the ânestâ by any means.
In fact, it is Israel who is enforcing international law, albeit without restraint.
But if you support Ukraine against Russia, then you must support Israel against a host of Islamist terrorists.
If the Islamists stop bombing Israel, Israel will stop eradicating the source.
Punishment to the source, whichever that may be, must always outweigh the potential gain.
By your conception of international law.
No idea why you believe that.
If Israel stops, do you think the Islamists will stop? Fat chance.
Let me remind you once more, Israel does not start bombing civilians, the terrorists do.
Israel may bomb civilians in retaliation.
Perhaps the countries that host the terrorists may want to think twice if it is worth supporting a cause that lands on their own doorstep and the price of supporting terrorism is not worth the price that Israel exacts in retaliation.
There is no honorable way to conduct a war. Any talk of war crimes is redundant.
War itself is a crime. Nobody is innocent. The innocents tend to become victims and die.
Note that I am not advocating for anything, other than peace. I am merely trying to explain the reality of the situation.
Stopping the war of terrorism is up to the terrorists, just as stopping the war of acquisition is up to Russia. If Ukraine stops fighting , Russia will win and that cannot be allowed.
This is why, IMO, supporting both Israel and Ukraine in defense of their country is a just cause.
If you begin at Oct 7. But thatâs not how this started. I stopped reading your post because you ignore 75 years of history. Thatâs why you live in a different reality.
Cite me one instance where Israel started bombing its neighbors first.
Why would they do such a foolish thing? Provoke a war? Whatâs to gain?
Israel and its neighbors: Decades of war
updated 10:30 AM ET, Wed, August 13
By Ray Sanchez, CNN
The violence between Israel and Hamas is just the latest flare-up in a region of enduring and deadly conflicts. Wars have erupted several times since the founding of the modern state of Israel in the late 1940s. Hereâs a look at some of the most serious conflicts involving Israel and its neighbors since then â conflicts that have spanned more than six decades and claimed countless lives.
Israelâs War for Independence
The Arab-Israeli War of 1948
The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. In 1947, and again on May 14, 1948, the United States had offered de facto recognition of the Israeli Provisional Government, but during the war, the United States maintained an arms embargo against all belligerents.
Who was fighting: Arab armies invaded what is now Israel.
What happened: In Israelâs War for Independence, known as the Arab-Israeli War, Egypt gained control of Gaza.
What was the outcome: Israel fought with Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon, which invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate after the announcement of an independent Israeli state on May 14, 1948. Armistice talks gave Israel 75% of what was Palestine, adding nearly one-third more land to the new state of Israel before the invasion. More than 600,000 Arabs fled Israel to become refugees in neighboring countries.
Israël does not bomb its neighbours first, it is systematically expelling Palestinians from their ancestral lands. And there are other ways to kill.
From an Israeli source, not including last year deaths:
Deaths from the Hamas-Israël conflict
And the knot is so tighten that the question of who began is irrelevant.
Iâdonât doubt this, but it seems always to be in response to an attack by Islamist terrorists.
When they fought: June 1967
Who was fighting: The Six-Day War lasted from June 5 to June 10, 1967, as Israel struck first at Egypt, Jordan and Syria.
In response to continual attacks by Islamists.
What happened: Israel occupied the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.
What was the outcome: Israel tripled its land holdings and gained control of Gaza.
Israel and its neighbors: Decades of war - CNN.com
The spoils of war.
Yes, Israeli Intelligence is the best in the world and is able to select enemy terrorists for elimination with brutal precision.
In response to a prior terrorist attack.
p.s. 70,000 Israelis have been displaced from north Israel, due to Hezbollah attacks
And what if terrorist attacks were an answer to the continual appropriation of lands by Israel ?
I am sure you remember the maps illustrating the political taking of Palestine by Israël.
Colonies have been extended and are daily extended.
What would you do if daily foreigners came to your town, appropriated land, built barriers, without paying anything and using strength ? What would you do if they forbade you to go to the next town to visit your family, if you had to get special pass to go to work, if you risked death every day for any slight reason ? In short, what would you do if you had been submitted to an apartheid regimen for more than 50 years? would you not be angry ?
I donât try to justify terrorism, but to explain it.
Israeli occupation of the West Bank
!
Though its occupation is illegal, [e] Israel has cited several reasons for retaining the West Bank within its ambit: historic rights stemming from the Balfour Declaration; security grounds, both internal and external; and the areaâs symbolic value for Jews.[11]
This gives more background.
https://www.state.gov/reports/country-reports-on-terrorism-2022/israel-west-bank-and-gaza/