Humanist Trilogy

when I use trilogy in this context I am not referring to these folks,
In this context, the trilogy is the brain, the cells of your body, and your biological self, as in yourself.

I don’t think I said that

It sorta seems the last two are the same thing aren’t they?
Even brain is part of the cells of your body and your biological self.
Then there’s the mind, our thoughts, why isn’t that in there somewhere?
Also what about the electrical field our living body creates, but that our dead carcass does not possess?

It’s interesting though, back in earlier decades I did play with the trilogy idea quite a bit and was surprised at how many things could be divided into three basic components.

The more I think about that “trilogy”, the less sense it makes.

I took a philosophy course once and it started with asking what I see as my “self”. I tried to talk about oneness with the universe, since every time I breath in, I’m interacting with it, or light entering my eyes, whatever. That wasn’t what the question was meant to be. We survive by knowing our own muscles and sensations and learning their limits, but also testing those limits. I can imagine things I can’t see, and that I could send thoughts out, but that still wouldn’t be “me”.

I believe it is the fundamental geography of 3D spacetime.
CDT (Causal Dynamical Triangulation) is based on the fractal nature of spacetime.

Causal dynamical triangulation (abbreviated as CDT) theorized by Renate Loll, Jan Ambjørn and Jerzy Jurkiewicz, is an approach to quantum gravity that, like loop quantum gravity, is background independent.

This means that it does not assume any pre-existing arena (dimensional space), but rather attempts to show how the spacetime fabric itself evolves.

There is evidence [1] that at large scales CDT approximates the familiar 4-dimensional spacetime, but shows spacetime to be 2-dimensional near the Planck scale, and reveals a fractal structure on slices of constant time. These interesting results agree with the findings of Lauscher and Reuter, who use an approach called Quantum Einstein Gravity, and with other recent theoretical work.

The Koch Curve is one of the simplest fractal shapes, and so its dimension is easy to work out. Its similarity dimension and Hausdorff dimension are both the same. This is not true for more complex fractals.

Koch snowflake[change | change source]

Von Koch curve.gif
The Koch snowflake (or Koch star) is the same as the Koch curve, except it starts with an equilateral triangle instead of a line segment.


(Changing Fractal (section) - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)]

Fractals have many applications e.g. in biology (lung, kidneys, heart rate variability, etc…), in earthquakes, in finance where it is related to the so called heavy tail distributions and in physics. This indicates that fractals should be studied to understand why fractals are so frequent in nature.

Some fractals exist only for artistic reasons, but others are very useful. Fractals are very efficient shapes for radio antennas and are used in computer chips to efficiently connect all the components. Also, coastlines can be thought of as fractals.[1]

In furtherance of the Triangulation concept:

Fractal Holographic Synergetic Universe

Key to understanding the worldview that cosmometry is founded upon is the idea that the Universe is both fractal (the same pattern of wholeness is found at every scale) and holographic (the wholeness is present everywhere and within every entity), as well as synergetic (the whole is greater than and unpredictable from the sum of the parts).

Let’s explore these fundamental concepts further…


Although the science and study of fractals is very deep and rich with mathematical precision and aesthetic variety, in the basic context of cosmometry we are using the term in its most simple expression: the repetition of patterns at all scales from micro to macro.

Fractal scaling is clearly present throughout the cosmos and has been extensively explored by pioneers such as Benoit Mandelbrot as a means to describe the repeating patterns of plant parts, coastal and mountain contours, river branching, lightning, clouds, wave patterns, etc.

**emphasized textAnimated Fractal Mountain by António Miguel de Campos (click image to see animation)

In cosmometry we are exploring the primary patterns, structures and flow forms that appear fractally, and how these primary attributes are seamlessly embedded from atomic to galactic scales.

Fractal scaling is one of the keys to understanding the full cosmometry model, especially when we seek to wrap our minds around the fact that there is a seamless movement of energy and information throughout the entire cosmos that manifests “locally” while remaining connected “universally”.

In order to fully comprehend the essence of what fractal scaling means, though, we have to view the cosmos in its most pure and ideal energetic expressions, then extrapolate those expressions into the unique forms they take, be they apparently crystalline/atomic/vectorial/structural, or fluid/plasmic/vortexial/toroidal (ultimately it’s always a “both/and” of these two states, but their dominant expression will typically look one way or the other).

Thank you for your thoughtful comment, I have moved on from the religious philosophical sense that ‘the soul’ is mainly used as meaning the same as ‘self’. Within the Christian context, “body mind and soul refers to yourself .” I have updated my cognizance of self to that defined by my DNA.

I understand that Christians must fight the authority of the human genome project to defend Christianity.

OK, you acknowledge human DNA as defined by the human genome project, But only think of “self” as part of the religious “body, mind, and soul” equalls “self,” right?

OK, so I paraphrased, you did say, “now that we know our genome, we know that some behaviors are biological, not magical “god” things.”

In your quote, “some” should be replaced with “all”

This clarification stuff is getting a little old.

I don’t think “self” in the way religions define it. I don’t know where you got that.

I could have been more precise about “some behaviors” being biological. I was thinking of nature vs nurture, but that is something that has been misunderstood, so I didn’t use those terms. The idea that “it’s your DNA making you do that” is not exactly accurate. There was a paper on that recently, but now I can’t find it.

It’s microtubules that are doing all the making. RNA and DNA are only the blueprints of how to make cells and arrange them . Microtubules do all the work of mitosis (mitotic spindle ) and cellular arrangement.

Microtubules take biochemical data and arrange it in accordance to RNA and DNA instructions. They create living organisms from purely biochemical building blocks . The process is called “abiogenesis”.

The Cell: A Molecular Approach. 2nd edition.


Microtubules, the third principal component of the cytoskeleton, are rigid hollow rods approximately 25 nm in diameter. Like actin filaments, microtubules are dynamic structures that undergo continual assembly and disassembly within the cell. They function both to determine cell shape and in a variety of cell movements, including some forms of cell locomotion, the intracellular transport of organelles, and the separation of chromosomes during mitosis.

During mitosis, microtubules similarly extend outward from duplicated centrosomes to form the mitotic spindle, which is responsible for the separation and distribution of chromosomes to daughter cells. The centrosome thus plays a key role in determining the intracellular organization of microtubules, although most details of its function remain a mystery.


What you are watching is abiogenesis at work. It’s all dynamic biochemical assembling, until the whole organization acquires emergent living properties.

This clarification stuff is getting a little old. I couldn’t agree more; I am sick and tired of it.
Is it a CFI forum moderator’s job to inject what they think they know about everything into members’ discussions?

And in your preciseness, isn’t what you consider precisely what you have acquired over your existence as a human, mulled over, and adopted as your style of precise?

I think a cache of preciseness in humans enables blinders, (a piece of horse tack that partially covers a horse’s eyes.) It allows them to focus better on what they can precisely do best, and little else during a specific span of time.

I really don’t expect an answer from you other than you don’t understand and request specific examples, exorcising your defense for not answering.

We are also members. I make it clear when I am moderating. Sorry if you don’t like my opinion. My comment about clarifications is that I felt you were misinterpreting me and putting words in my mouth.

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Seems to me it all depends on motive.

Clarification stuff is, the action of making a statement or situation less confused and more comprehensible.

Okay, skip that first sentence and consider the rest,

Seems quite civil and on point.

What’s wrong with that. Lighten up, don’t be so defensive. Do you rather that your, so far, poorly defined ideas (and you) are simply ignored. Seems to me it’s a compliment to be asked to define and defend one’s ideas, how else can you learn?
Or for that matter, how else can you actually know what you’re all about, if you can’t field questions, challenges and to explain your thoughts.

I hate to admit it but sometimes Write4u sends me right up a wall - but lordie, for me the past year would have been intellectually impoverished had I simply ignored his challenges, and stewed at his “impertinence.” :wink:
Why, because he has forced me to think things through and from another perspective that I’m oblivious to, since like the rest of us, I’m wrapped up in my mind which has been formed by my unique life and learning. (Resulting in me getting better handle on my little vision and how to define it, not to mention better understanding objections.) Thing is, at least, I have the sense to recognize as much, and strive not to take myself too seriously, nor allow other to overly offend me. It’s all part of the Human Condition I sometimes mention.

Not that I don’t sometimes fall on my face, but we get up and brush off, take a few deep breaths and continue, the living is the only thing that really matters in the end anyways.

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Yes sir I believe you. I appreciate and need people to investigate how or if things work and why they work or don’t work. You and Citizens Challenge are among the best.

Here is a quote from Citizens Challenge that I’m taking to heart, I enjoy reading you both.

"Pointpath, I’m not trying to be a wiseass, I’m am trying to say please do try to give us the benefit of doubt here. We’re engaging with you because you’re interested and we’re curious (okay I should just speak for myself ), now it’s up to you to make it worth everyone’s time.

I totally agree I was in this forum a few years ago and left for a few years and became involved with the now unfunded Human Genome Project and other contemporary groups. At that time my intent was to discover as much as I could about DNA from both a physical and a functional standpoint.

I am using WordPress and Beaver Builder to write a blog about my experiences and prepare the curriculum for a series of meetup-group-type of events.

The Catholic Church has been the leader in educating us. They have done a masterful job in creating their school for the little brains of little, gullible, children.

The Jesuits in particular created institutions of higher learning with subjects not previously offered that are still being studied in modern science and particularly astronomy.

I am saying that because the most serious problem has to do with education but not reflecting on the church.

Don’t know when I can get back to this forum, I will respond to anything from you guys.

Human Genome Project (HGP) was an international scientific research project with the goal of determining the base pairs that make up human DNA, and of identifying, mapping and sequencing all of the genes of the human genome from both a physical and a functional standpoint.[1] It remains the world’s largest collaborative biological project.[

Hopefully, this may add an additional dimension to the discussion in reference to the dynamics of living organisms.

Biological Complexity and the Dynamics of Life Processes
1st Edition - November 1, 1999


The aim of this book is to show how supramolecular complexity of cell organization can dramatically alter the functions of individual macromolecules within a cell. The emergence of new functions which appear as a consequence of supramolecular complexity, is explained in terms of physical chemistry.T

The book is interdisciplinary, at the border between cell biochemistry, physics and physical chemistry. This interdisciplinarity does not result in the use of physical techniques but from the use of physical concepts to study biological problems.In the domain of complexity studies, most works are purely theoretical or based on computer simulation.

The present book is partly theoretical, partly experimental and theory is always based on experimental results. Moreover, the book encompasses in a unified manner the dynamic aspects of many different biological fields ranging from dynamics to pattern emergence in a young embryo.

The volume puts emphasis on dynamic physical studies of biological events. It also develops, in a unified perspective, this new interdisciplinary approach of various important problems of cell biology and chemistry, ranging from enzyme dynamics to pattern formation during embryo development, thus paving the way to what may become a central issue of future biology.
Elsevier logo

As Lausten stated, we are also members and we are free to participate in any and all discussions we have something to say. When we have our mod hats on and giving a warning, we highlight it in blue so people understand a warning has been given. I don’t know what forums you participate in, but most forums I’ve ever been on, the mods often participated as members too. If you have a problem with such things, maybe you should find a different forum.

I agree with Mriana. I have been moderator and I am still.

Moderators are members of the forum and may participate.

The limit i fix to myself is to be exemplar. I don’t call names, i try to smooth things when the mood turns ugly. At least, i don’t pour oil on the fire.

But, in theses limits, I say what I want and my opinions are not always mainstream.

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Thank you for bringing that book to my attention, appreciate that. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

My pleasure. We aim to please.

I ran across this article that addresses the question from several different perspectives.

Reductionism and complexity in molecular biology

Marc H.V. Van Regenmortel1 (Author photo)

Author information


Although biology has always been a science of complex systems, complexity itself has only recently acquired the status of a new concept, partly because of the advent of electronic computing and the possibility of simulating complex systems and biological networks using mathematical models (Emmeche, 1997; Alm & Arkin, 2003).

Because complex systems have emergent properties, it should be clear from the preceding discussion that their behaviour cannot be understood or predicted simply by analysing the structure of their components. The constituents of a complex system interact in many ways, including negative feedback and feed-forward control, which lead to dynamic features that cannot be predicted satisfactorily by linear mathematical models that disregard cooperativity and non-additive effects. In view of the complexity of informational pathways and networks, new types of mathematics are required for modelling these systems (Aderem & Smith, 2004).