Hatred saturated GOP absolutists - Fetal Heart Beat Laws

Politics and Social Issues
121
Stardusty Psyche April 25, 2019 at 1:51 am: "What the hell does Jesus, Reagan, or the GOP have to do with me?
Considering you argue like a brain washed puppy - I'd say you are a victim of the brainwashing.
Stardusty Psyche April 25, 2019 at 1:51 am: "Then there was FOX and Kochs and still we slept. Now we got Trump. And FOX and Koch and Trump...what else?
Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Limbaugh, Hannity, Moral Majority, and money and money and so on.

Here’s a scattering of reading material on the topic:

Religion and Right-Wing Politics: How Evangelicals Reshaped Elections
In the early 1970s, many evangelical Christians weren’t active in politics. Within a few years they had reshaped American politics for a generation.

By Clyde Haberman, Oct. 28, 2018

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/religion-politics-evangelicals.html

 

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/outlines/history-1994/toward-the-21st-century/conservatism-and-the-rise-of-ronald-reagan.php

THE ASSOCIATION OF RELIGION DATA ARCHIVES
http://www.thearda.com/timeline/movements/movement_17.asp

 

With God on Their Side: How Evangelicals Entered American Politics
By Alan Wolfe March 28, 2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/28/books/review/evangelicals-struggle-to-shape-america-frances-fitzgerald.html

 

Conservative Evangelicals Have Shown Me Who They Really Are

Tomi Obaro - https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tomiobaro/i-used-to-be-a-conservative-evangelical-now-i-see-theyre

 

Under Trump, America's religious right is rewriting its code of ethics Randall Balmer - Sun 18 Feb 2018 From scorning immigrants to accepting the president’s profanity, evangelicals are proving just how flexible their values can be

Evangelical: Religious Right Has Distorted the Faith

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5502785

June 23, 2006

President Bush and the Republican Party find strong support among evangelical voters. But in his new book, Thy Kingdom Come, author Randall Balmer says that allegiance is misplaced.

“I don’t find much that I recognize as Christian” in the religious right, says Balmer, a professor of religion at Barnard College, Columbia University and contributing editor to Christianity Today.

He says blind allegiance to the Republican Party has distorted the faith of politically active evangelicals, leading them to misguided positions on issues such as abortion and homosexuality.

“They have taken something that is lovely and redemptive and turned it into something that is ugly and retributive,” Balmer says. …


 

122

Tim, it occurred to me - on a nice walk with Maddy this beautiful spring day, a little windy but sunny and warm and the river* and ditch have water running in them, so life is good. (*well, okay, in name only, a creek and vulnerable to seasonal drying these days.) Following Maddy around and watching our interactions is always relaxing in a mediative sort of way.

Coming back, it occurred to me that our pal believes he’s God’s sheriff. He’s really convinced himself, that he’s got a direct line to the God Almighty of Time and Light, Life and Love.

It’s that conceit that reveals an EGO run amok, as hubristic as it get. But oh so common throughout humanity’s history. He does totally believe in a God, but it’s his own EGO he’s worshipping and elevated to god status - thus it’s so easy to pass judgement on others. (With the help of fictionalizing reality.) Empathy and introspection are not part of the package.

123
Stardusty Psyche April 25, 2019 at 1:51 am: “Then there was FOX and Kochs and still we slept. Now we got Trump. And FOX and Koch and Trump…what else?
We got the end result huge segment of our population who believe it's okay to ignore down to Earth physical facts. People satisfied with being know-nothings. A group of people who enjoy ridiculing and tuning out actual practicing scientific experts. A group of people who are satisfied with a one dimensional kindergarten version of Earth's and Human history and physical realities. A group of people who believe absorbing constructive learning and changing long held assumptions is a surrender, and mortal sin. A group of people who are okay with a parade of ruthless character assassination and evidence misrepresentation and malicious lies, and slander.

Science by political theater and rhetorical performance, along with a belligerent disregard for truth and constructive learning, as the know-nothing Representative Thomas Massie demonstrated earlier this month.

And so on.

124
I have never used a forum with such an inability to filter whitespace. What you see is most definitely NOT what you get.

I suggest revamping the editor to allow clean copy and paste like virtually every other forum.


Word.

This forum makes the old one seem state-of-the-art.

125

CC: I hear that the brain can come up with insights when you’re not expecting it.

126

@TimB

A fetus will never be inside YOUR body.
So what? You will never be lots of things you still have what you consider to be valid opinions on, and advocate government regulations for.

By your “logic” only people who are coal miners can vote on mine safety.

 

 

 

127

@CC

Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Limbaugh, Hannity, Moral Majority, and money and money and so on.
So what? Bringing up more irrelevancies does not make your previous irrelevancies relevant. What do any of those people have to do with me?

 

 

128

TimB said “…A fetus will never be inside YOUR body…”

Stardusty replied "So what? You will never be lots of things you still have what you consider to be valid opinions on, and advocate government regulations for.

By your “logic” only people who are coal miners can vote on mine safety."

TimB replied “Poor analogy. Anyone can potentially become a coal miner and can quit at anytime. So the analogy already sux. Even so, those who choose to be miners should have top say on mine safety. So the analogy sux more. You want to control the lives of women who have been impregnated, regarding a choice that most exclusively effects them and hardly effects you (or all of the other men who would bend them to their will) at all, except for disturbing your sense of piety.”

129

Excellently explicated Tim.

TimB replied “Poor analogy. Anyone can potentially become a coal miner and can quit at anytime. So the analogy already sux. Even so, those who choose to be miners should have top say on mine safety. So the analogy sux more. You want to control the lives of women who have been impregnated, regarding a choice that most exclusively effects them and hardly effects you (or all of the other men who would bend them to their will) at all, except for disturbing your sense of piety.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stardusty: So what?
Well, you were asking so I was pointing out leading players in the extreme right wing religious brainwashing game - which has so effectively scrubbed both your rational aspects, such as critical thinking skills, but also fundamental human empathy.

Quite sad, seeing the results tearing apart the American fabric. I don’t expect you to understand let alone appreciate the cynical power game you’ve been victim too. But I will continue striving to better understand for myself, define and explain it to the sleepy heads in my tribe of the Children of the Intellectual Enlightenment. That’s why I offer links to further reading for those who still want to think for themselves.

130

pssst SP:

3264×2448 1.32 MB

APRIL 9, 2019 GOP Religion vs. Rational Politics. My point is . . .

https://confrontingsciencecontrarians.blogspot.com/2019/04/gop-religion-v-rational-politics.html

131

@TimB

Anyone can potentially become a coal miner and can quit at anytime.
Anyone can potentially become responsible for providing life sustenance to a helpless child. Quitting that provision such that the child dies is homicidal criminal neglect at best, or outright first degree murder.
You want to control the lives of women who have been impregnated, regarding a choice that most exclusively effects them
You guys are real concerned about kids unless they are unborn. Killing a human being affects that human being, yet you seem oblivious to this obvious fact.
and hardly effects you (or all of the other men who would bend them to their will) at all,
About half the babies killed in utero are male so that alone would make abortion a male issue.

Irrespective, this is a human issue, defense of the defenseless.

We the people, through the consent of the governed, empower our government to have an interest in defending the defenseless. That’s why we have laws against child abuse, child neglect, infanticide, and in most states, the killing of a viable human being in utero.

132

@CC

Well, you were asking so I was pointing out leading players in the extreme right wing religious brainwashing game – which has so effectively scrubbed both your rational aspects, such as critical thinking skills, but also fundamental human empathy.
WTF?

You think I have been brainwashed by right wing religious players? Where are you getting all this made up nonsense about me from?

fundamental human empathy.
Where is your fundamental human empathy for the unborn? Have you ever felt your unborn child kick in utero? Have you ever watched her heart beat in utero?

Don’t lecture me on empathy, you self admitted pompous male.

 

133

@CC

Quite sad, seeing the results tearing apart the American fabric. I don’t expect you to understand let alone appreciate the cynical power game you’ve been victim too. But I will continue striving to better understand for myself, define and explain it to the sleepy heads in my tribe of the Children of the Intellectual Enlightenment.
Wow, pompous doesn't even begin to describe the self congratulating dream world you very apparently inhabit. You are indeed a legend in your own mind.
134
Stardusty Psyche: "Anyone can potentially become responsible for providing life sustenance to a helpless child."
You're not being serious, or at least you haven't thought about it through too much.

 

No Starry, I’m not that pompous really,

just been learning and debating faith-shackled a long time and I’m done with letting bullshitters bully me around with incomplete one-sided absolutist thinking. It’s done plenty enough damage to society and our future already - time to object loudly and that’s what I’m doing.

 

I’ve had fools telling me what I am all my life, I always had the feeling I was something of more substance than the bullies imagined and continued on my way. So if I’m ready to call bullshit, its the product of experience. I’m almost 64 and at that point in life where I’m stuck with the bed I made for myself. It turns out to be a very comfortable bed indeed and sleep comes easy. I’ve faced my demons and learned the secret of Jesus’ Passion through living an attentive life and burning on the crosses of my own making, and I’ve had some sweet successes too, so excuse me if I’m foundationally more solid that you care to deal with, but there it is. But at least I don’t have to shut out your words like a brick wall, I can listen to them, even attempt inhabiting them, then soberly assess them according to my understanding.

The Bible tells us seek and ye shall fine, I took that lesson to heart and lo and behold it worked. Now I’ll share what I got to share and am hoping a few out there might find it helpful.

 

You are right I don’t know a thing about the real you. All I know is the words and idea you share, from those I have drawn some preliminary conclusions. With like rational people do, I remain open to new information and am willing to adjust my conclusions according to new incoming evidence. But I’ll admit I see you more a character representing religion shackled “Right-to-Lifers.” I can even well imagine you are an adherent of the Prosperity Doctrine. But I appreciate those are just guesses and I shouldn’t give them too much weight.

 

pssst you’ll love this one

https://confrontingsciencecontrarians.blogspot.com/2019/04/democrats-stop-talking-past-gop.html

xoxo

135

Coming back from another walk with Maddy, the irony of Stardusty Psyche calling me pompous crystalized. On the one hand, okay I’ve been told ‘I don’t suffer fools kindly’ and know I can come across harsher than I mean to, so I’ll own some of it.

 

On the other hand my pal Stardusty Psyche, is demanding he’s got the right to play God in the lives of woman, woman whom he doesn’t know anything about, and furthermore from his own words it’s obvious he doesn’t think much of in general.

Women who appreciate that they are carrying a human life don’t need to be told not to kill it, they know that already and they don’t, because most women are compassionate that way, but not all.

For those women who lack either the intelligence, insight, emotional stability, empathy, or appreciation needed to realize that it is not ok to kill a living human being, we the people, by the consent of the governed, have empowered our government to take an interest in defending the lives of the defenseless innocents who would otherwise be destroyed by those unwilling to preserve innocent life.


Starry even demands to overturn the rules of nature and history and dictate that the unborn fetus is more important than the person giving that Being life. That fetus is a being but it is not a person. The fetus is the potentiality of a person, with many hurdles to overcome before it can take on the mantle of personhood!

I simply can’t fathom that disrespect and ignorance regarding mothers. That attitude that want to strip woman of their rights to self-determination and self-defense is appalling and wrong to its core, if speaking out for that makes me pompous, so be it.

The mother is the center of family and a healthy society, she is supremely important! If Democrats have allowed the country and the law to lose sight of that fact - namely that the mother and her existing family is more important than an unborn fetus it’s a monstrosity worth screaming about. If you want to call it Justifiable homicide, okay.

It is a killing, tragic and justifiable at the same time. A personal family affair that the government has no business dictating.

Abortion is not the greatest sin in our world!

The utter pomposity of putting the unborn ahead of the already living!

Only a manipulative mind that had other greater goals in mind, like creating a faith-blinded voting block that couldn’t care less about dignity, or honesty or the greater human society. Me First is all they got in their “Godly” minds.

Too bad the God they worship is their own EGO.

 

136

“…It is a killing, tragic and justifiable at the same time. A personal family affair that the government has no business dictating…”

And the mother’s choice. Not anyone else’s to 2nd guess.

137

@CC

just been learning and debating faith-shackled a long time and I’m done with letting bullshitters
What does that have to do with me? What makes you think I am "faith-shackled"?
You are right I don’t know a thing about the real you. All I know is the words and idea you share, from those I have drawn some preliminary conclusions.
...based on your preexisting prejudices, which are way wrong about me. But killing babies doesn't turn on me, nor the desire for autonomy by a parent. We the people, through the consent of the governed, empower our government to defend the defenseless. You obviously do not understand that principle, and are thus Citizenship Challenged.
138

@CC

the irony of Stardusty Psyche calling me pompous crystalized.
You called yourself "pompous". That is your word in reference to yourself. You said it above.
Stardusty Psyche, is demanding he’s got the right to play God in the lives of woman,
I am demanding that women do not have the right to play god with their children. There is no parental right to kill one's own child.
Starry even demands to overturn the rules of nature and history and dictate that the unborn fetus is more important than the person giving that Being life.
Learn how to think.

No, the fetus is not more important than the mother, rather, a living human being in utero is equally important. The right to life of a dependent child supersedes the right to personal autonomy of a parent.

That attitude that want to strip woman of their rights to self-determination and self-defense is appalling
Are you an atheist who considers himself to be a rationalist? If so, I have never encountered such grossly sloppy thinking in a self identifying rationalist.

No, self determination and self defense are 2 vastly different things. Learn how to differentiate basic distinctions.

Self defense supersedes self determination. The right self defense of a dependent child supersedes the right to self determination of a parent.

The defenseless child is incapable of defending herself, so we the people through the consent of the governed empower our government to defend the defenseless in our name.

 

 

 

 

139

@CC

The mother is the center of family and a healthy society, she is supremely important!
Your misandry is nauseating.
namely that the mother and her existing family is more important than an unborn fetus
The life of a human being is more important than the wish of a mother to kill that human being.
If you want to call it Justifiable homicide, okay.
You realize it is homicide yet you somehow have it twisted around in your pretzel logic little head that it is justified. Justified by what? Nearly all abortions are elective, just a matter of a desire to have some particular life situation, not to defend against the mother's own life.

Homicide is justified when there is a clear and present physical threat to the defenders life, which is seldom the case in abortions.

Even the most restrictive anti-abortion laws in the USA have a maternal self defense clause, as they should.

Barring a clear and present risk to the mother’s life the homicide is not justified.

 

140

@TimB
<div class=“bbp-reply-content”>

“…It is a killing, tragic and justifiable at the same time. A personal family affair that the government has no business dictating…”

And the mother’s choice. Not anyone else’s to 2nd guess.


</div>
In what barbaric world does a parent have the “choice” to electively kill his or her own child?