Government shutdown = Treason!

I believe that the actions of the Republicans can be called treasonous.


When they shut down the government, it does not mean that everyone goes home.

Many people are compelled to perform their job for no pay, but not having access to government services they may need.

The treason comes in play when the Republicans continue to pay themselves without needing to perform any kind of work. After all, they are the ones who shut the government down, but will suffer no adverse results.

Yet all people with income are expected to continue to pay their income and sales taxes to support the very people who deny government services to the public and we have entered a state of “taxation without representation”.

It would seem fair that if the government shuts down, all government representatives should be laid off or people should not be obligated and compelled to pay taxes.
But of course, that will not happen. The average working person will not be exempt from taxation.

Do I have to pay taxes if the government shuts down?

Government Shutdown is Rooted in Hypocrisy, Dysfunction, and, As Always, Tax Cuts for the Rich

Government shutdowns are not a good deal for taxpayers, who will still owe the same amount of taxes whether Congress allows them access to the things those taxes are supposed to pay for or not. And shutting down those services ends up costing the government more. 2 days ago

And that all adds up to sabotage and a treasonous insult to the Nation.

It’s not the “party”. It’s a minority in the minority, who were voted in by a minority. They do not have an issue they are holding on, they have many issues, and they change as the wind changes.

It’s a nonfunctional govt, like a Parliament without coalitions.

The rich created because we would never vote in their policies. They create chaos and pick our pockets while we are yelling at castle.

MAGA Republican, chaos and cruelty is the point !

(Jeez couldn’t come up with a better example (on a few levels) of Beavis and Butt-head all grown up)

Sep 29, 2023 #msnbc #republicans #governmentshutdown

A government shutdown looms as right-wing Republicans have voted against funding the government, which could shut down by midnight on Saturday. Rep. Summer Lee (D-PA) says of the House GOP demands fueling the likely government shutdown, “I have not seen a serious person over there. No, we have not seen any serious proposals. But what they are doing is something that we need to take seriously.”

Now, a few words from General Mark Milley, worth hearing and sharing:

Sep 29, 2023
(29 Sep 2023) Army Gen. Mark Milley delivered a full-throated defense of democracy and not-so-subtle swipes at former President Donald Trump during a packed ceremony as he closed out his four, often tumultuous years as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. (Sept. 29)


American voters are going to be put to the test in about one year like never before.

Will enough Americans finally wake up (get informed and engaged) to throw the MAGA charlatans and mini monsters out of power with resounding margins. We have enough problems facing us, time to replace these traitors and with some more sober minded individuals, who believe in knowledge and fact based rational leadership.

There really are some positive signs that the MAGA forces have peeked and the rest of us have had enough of their destructive idiotic lunacy, so there’s no point in giving up and rolling over, roll up those sleeves instead. :v: :slight_smile:

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Treason has a specific meaning, especially in the legal sense. Government shutdowns don’t qualify as treason at all.

You may want to reread the definition of treason.

Treason is the crime of attacking a state authority to which one owes allegiance.[1]
This typically includes acts such as participating in a war against one’s native country, attempting to overthrow its government, spying on its military, its diplomats, or its secret services for a hostile and foreign power, or attempting to kill its head of state. A person who commits treason is known in law as a traitor. Treason - Wikipedia

In this case, the shutdown is a breach of allegiance to the state authority, plus will give aid and comfort to Putin. And that is treason.

Who was calling that treason?
Acting with malicious intent towards our government and it’s citizens, THAT’S TREASON!

The MAGA-madness is all about tearing apart our country and it’s systems of check and balances - that constitutes treason!

On top of that they want to install a dictator into the Oval Office! THAT’S TREASON!

Then again, Write, also makes a good point, undermines my first question.
But does so with facts.
PS. MAGA man that’s how rational constructive social/public intercourse is supposed to work.


Mr.trump the MAGA gift to America, here’s a perfect theme song for the malicious destructive traitor to his country,
courtesy of Al Wilson:

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You guys know they are calling us treasonous, right? The definition needs an agreed view of what our state is. We don’t have that anymore. Many of their tactics are legal, like gerrymandering. It’s out of control now, and some of it is illegal, but it’s our fault for doing nothing 40, 50 years ago.

Pretty useless term, treason.

It’s worse than that.


They want to push dominionism into our government, while saying, “Religious freedom be damned.” They want to force their worldview on everyone in the U.S. They’ve been trying to do this for a couple of decades now. They started to make headway with the dotard, until he got in legal trouble. The MAGAts aren’t just MAGAts, but also dominionists.

It’s perfectly legal to say these things, and even to change the constitution. I’m glad they are open about it. Now, we need to stop treating them like a joke.

I agree, but we also need to keep them from doing such things.

Right and they also call our Constitutionally structured government worthless and worth transforming into a one party system.

Using your logic all words are pretty much useless in the end.

TREASON = “The crime of betraying one’s country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.”

What’s useless about that definition?

All of a sudden I’m reminded of the tendency, out there, not naming any names, to normalize lying about the honest scientific facts relating to climate science and in the process to willfully torch of Good-Faith constructive debate, in favor of malicious slander and misrepresentation and all out fraud, coupled with utterly ruthless bullying.

Just saying, sometime you gotta draw a line.

Nice move. Defining my statement as useless and using infinitum absurdism to write it off

Exactly my point. Clutching our pearls and lamenting the destruction of democracy is their strategy, just using different words. To get someone to do the absurd, convince there is an enemy out get them and the only way to win is to fight dirty and follow an authority. Laura Boebert is a complete idiot. If we can’t take her down with logic, evidence, and just processes, what does that make us?

Ah rhetoric and logic what a wonderful playground for our mindscape.

Absolutely, that’s why a line has to be drawn regarding honesty and perhaps even shining a light on the mirage that “Truth” is. And to understand why it’s so. Fortunately, seems to me lately I’ve been seeing more and more impressive performances (broadcasting solid ideas, arguments, well spoke and thought out, from more and more Democratic representatives. Honestly, in a way, (disregarding the big picture and black swans), I’m more optimistic about the Democratic Party than I have in a very long time. We’ll see.

And to better understand us, people, ourselves -
In that regard, believe me human behavior makes a lot more sense in the light of evolution and realizing that our bodies produce our consciousness and that we all are evolved biological thinking machines. Everything flows from there, in beautiful consilience and poetic consistency. Tools for better grappling with ourselves and . . .

Politics is also passion baby:

Cheers, :clinking_glasses:

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[quote=“citizenschallengev4, post:14, topic:10478”] Everything flows from there, in beautiful consilience and poetic consistency. Tools for better grappling with ourselves and . . .


Always loved that anthem. Dolly adds a new dimension

I mean useless in the context of daily labelling of people. If you can’t file a suit and carry through to the trail, there isn’t much point in discussing the details and determining guilt or innocence.

Use the word all you want, but arguing about how right you are is just a distraction. Go work on a campaign, or go help some homeless.

What about labeling specific behavior?

WTF How about something specific?? What the heck are you even talking about now?


The most recent, presented at the end of Climate Panel up at FLC:

A history of malicious attacks against climate science education and understanding.

I share this because I believe understanding AGW inaction also requires understanding the decades of deliberate calculated deception regarding climate science findings. (Best wishes, Peter Miesler,

When I graduated high school in ’73 I was reasonable up to date on the fundamental state of climate science findings and conclusions. Even back then, we knew the science was clear, within reasonable error margins. Many of us graduating students truly felt that the next few decades would see a profound societal change manifested in a coalescing effort to intelligently meet the challenges that we humans were obviously creating for ourselves and this living planet we depended on for everything.

Even if the speed and exact unfolding of the coming climate crisis and serious disruption was “uncertain” the science was absolutely positive that increasing our atmospheric insulation, via CO2 , would warm our climate engine and that cascading consequences would adversely impact our home planet’s biosphere, in turn, threaten every aspect of our complex global society.

Our global heat and moisture distribution engine would and is harboring ever increasing heat and energy. This, in turn would, and is, increase atmospheric moisture levels, thereby altering and intensifying global weather patterns. As witnessed by infrastructure destroying weather event, as we have been witnessing. Not to mention the epochal consequences that flushing all this extra CO2 into our global oceans will be progressively triggering.

In the human world, few wanted to hear about it, even fewer were willing to really listen to the science and think through the implications. Why?

Because scientists’ mathematically rational conclusions demanded that unacceptable choices be faced.

Either, we slow down our exponential growth in humans and our consumption expectations, or we would overshoot our finite Earth’s ability to sustain us. Nothing political about it, fundamental geophysics and math.

From a human, societal, perspective it demanded a willingness to learn more about Earth’s biosphere and climate engine, along with a willingness to make moderation a virtue. To focus on preparing infrastructure for the new hydrological realities of drought and torrential storms, rising waters and dropping water tables, among others.

To become more aware and attentive to Earth’s needs and be willing to give a little back. Had we simply slowed down a little, not allowed private corporations to endlessly merge until they are more powerful than governments.

What if rather than "Ayn Randian” philosophy leading global financial planning and operations of the ’70s, ’80s, ‘90s, and so on, if human and environmental interests had become an integral part of corporate fiduciary responsibly? What if regulations had been recognized for the safety and security they offered humans and society? Sure, no billionaires today, but would that really have been that bad?

But that didn’t happen, instead it was peddle to the metal, increasing consumption and accumulating the most toys seemed to become priority one, with Earth (& future) meriting little more than lip-service and a game of Kicking the Can Down the Road.

Rather than our public dialogue becoming a good-faith marketplace for honestly presenting findings and facts and engaging in constructive debate, it descended into a marketplace for calculated deception resulting in general stupefaction, thanks to the ruthless fraud against science and We The People that is documented in the following:

“Exxon’s Climate Denial History: A Timeline”

“What Big Oil knew about climate change, in its own words”
Benjamin Franta, October 28, 2021, The Conversation
What Big Oil knew about climate change, in its own words

“Oil Industry’s Public Climate Denial Campaign Dates Back to at Least 1980, Nearly a Decade Earlier Than Previously Thought”
By Nick Cunningham, Jan 15, 2021,
Oil Industry’s Public Climate Denial Campaign Dates Back to at Least 1980, Nearly a Decade Earlier Than Previously Thought - DeSmog

The American Petroleum Institute (API), the leading oil and gas industry trade group, publicly pushed misleading information on climate change as early as 1980 …

An organized campaign of climate disinformation is generally thought to have begun around 1989 with the formation of the Global Climate Coalition, an industry front group aimed at protecting fossil fuel interests, before it coalesced into a more active campaign of climate denial in the 1990s, which included attacking climate scientists, muddying the waters on climate science, and promoting climate deniers. API was one of the coalition’s leading members, along with Exxon (later ExxonMobil).

But Franta points to a policy booklet published by API in 1980 as evidence …

Naomi Oreskes,Merchants of Doubt”: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming, 2010. (New York: Bloomsbury Press.)

“Exxon Knew about Climate Change almost 40 years ago”
A new investigation shows the oil company understood the science before it became a public issue and spent millions to promote misinformation
by Shannon Hall, October 26, 2015

“Tracing Big Oil’s PR war to delay action on climate change”
Alvin Powell, Harvard Staff Writer, September 28, 2021
Oil companies discourage climate action, study says – Harvard Gazette

“Climate disinformation leaves lasting mark as world heats”
By David Klepper, July 27, 2022 American Petroleum Institute

“Documents Show How Polluting Industries Mobilized to Block Climate Action”

Since its inception, the IPCC itself has been the target of corporate obstructionism.
Amy Westervelt, April 12 2022, The Intercept
How Polluting Industries Mobilized to Block Climate Action

"How a powerful US lobby group helps big oil to block climate action”
Chris McGreal, July 19, 2021, The Guardian

“Republican War on Science”
Chris Mooney, 2005, Basic Books (ISBN 9780465046751)

“Climate Science Contrarian’s Hall of Shame”
What’s Up With That Watts . blogspot . com

" Unauthorized notes, ~ Ben Santer ~ The General Public: Why Such Resistance?" (5/23/11)

“Climate Contrarian Myths sorted by taxonomy”
“The consensus-building process of the IPCC” (2/23/12)

Why is all of this significant? In the words of Chris Mooney:

“If you can’t admit it when you’re wrong, you also can’t know when you’re right.

“If you don’t hold your opinions and beliefs tentatively, subject them to scrutiny, and then try to parse out which of them truly hold weight, then you run the risk of rushing headlong into all manner of self-serving biases. …”

"And please note: This has nothing to do with whether or not you’re smart. Smart people (like Anthony Watts) are in fact particularly vulnerable to this problem, because they’re extra good at rationalizing their views. Even as they’re super awesome at finding apparent problems with the arguments of those who disagree with them, and arguing back against their opponents, they’re often oblivious of their own biases.

“But it doesn’t matter how many great arguments you can spin out to defend what you believe, if you can’t also perceive where your beliefs might be untrue.

“Without self criticism, all your self-supporting arguments amount to little more than spinning your wheels—while you remain stuck in the mud.” - Nov. 16, 2011

Oh and yes I wrote this before I actually listen to the panel discussion, but as with so many before they fulfilled my prediction, fear, that the 4 person panel would totally ignore the facts and problems around the strategic climate science disinformation campaigns. Oh but plenty of time for pie in the sky potential salvations from AGW consequences.

Oh and reduction was mentioned all of once, in a hour and a half. I deftly managed to get the last question in and pointed out the ignored elephant in the room, then told student I had must read info, for the curious.

I stood at the door and simply held my flier, so only those who were actually interested took a copy. I’ll admit I was gratified by the interest.

Since none of that qualifies at all as treason, they are in the clear.

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Doing harm to the Nation , such as shutting down the government for no valid reason does qualify as treason.
There is no benefit in shutting down the government. Only harm.

Would you say that I harmed you if I drained all the fuel out of your car so that you could not get to your job. Hey, I didn’t wreck your car, so no harm done, right?

Do you have a clue how much a shutdown costs and places an additional burden on the tax payer.

And then to have this done by a person who continues to get paid for harming you!
None of that is Treason or at least Sedition?
Wrecking the Democracy and installing a Dictatorship by any means is treason in my book.