Gender

must accept that their actions will have consequences,
How ironic to have a trumpster offer such a notion.

The double standards are startlingly disgusting.

You’re fine with people rioting in our capital in order to overthrow an election but now you need to a heavy towards boys and girls who don’t happen to feel the way you expect them to.

Why the hell does it even matter to you. You controlling so and so’s. But honesty, integrity, respect toward other belong in your toilet. Unbelievable but so so common in this twisted age of nasty self-delusion.

 

Genuine Christianity is about how your “faith” is expressed through your behavior and actions - not about how much you can demand from others.

What you’ve got going is something else, that comes from a different direction.

Bob, I know we’re kind of leaning toward a discussion about “inner city” cultures, but the same dynamics that have kept that population oppressed work for rural areas as well. Explain to me how the children in Mississippi can take responsibility for the quality of their education? Should they run away from home and find a richer parent further north who will adopt them?

Is is just an accident that school districts are they way they are?

Government cannot replace the nuclear family.
Maybe not, but they sure can disrupt the structure we have. They can send boys off to fight a war that profits their business buddies. They can target police in neighborhoods where people can't afford lawyers and harass people then say they were resisting arrest. Or just stop and frisk them, they will find a small amount of marijuana just like they would if they frisked a fraternity brother at the private college nearby, but guess which one is going to jail and won't be there for their children?
That alone should tell us that we can never allow children to be taught values by government agencies of any kind, including schools.
I agree. We shouldn't have allowed Governor Faubus to teach kids to scream at 9 little boys and girls who wanted a fair shot at an education. Pretty much everything you say falls apart as soon as you look at the whole picture of what parents around the world have done and what governments are doing. The same parent can teach a kid to stay in school and to hate people based on skin color. The same government can build quality schools and have a tax code that favors some school districts over others. Your simple analysis of the world just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
The root of poverty is in the culture of the poor and that applies to people of all skin colors and ethnicity.
A while back I read an interesting book that theorizes most of social mobility stems from genes. If that is the case it would mean that while there definitely is a culture of the poor -- that culture might not be something poor people can really escape from. The poor make their culture, not the other way around, according to the theory. It seems plausible imo.

I would say that society makes the poor.

But poor people create their one culture if you mean their one langage, way of dressing, of eating and so. And yes this culture enclose them. If you don’t behave, coth, dress in the way of the middle people, it is more difficult to find a decent job and so …

 

Books like the one OneGuy found are modern versions of the very old arguments for prejudice. With graphs and numbers, it appears he has a case. I highly doubt it. From reviews, it appears he is using “genetic” in a Social Darwinism sense, and does not provide any biological data or cause. As one of the 1-star reviewers on Amazon puts it:

He sweeps away, often with one big arrogant swoosh, alternative explanations for no good reason and without citations.
Sounds like some people I know.
I know we’re kind of leaning toward a discussion about “inner city” cultures, but the same dynamics that have kept that population oppressed work for rural areas as well.
I think the dynamics you refer to are indeed not limited to "inner city" cultures. One of the latest things I have seen many times is people lamenting "food deserts". I believe what we actually see is that there are areas we might call "resource deserts" and these areas are not limited to the inner cities.

In order for an area to support a population there must be sufficient resources of various kinds. Basic resources include water, sanitation facilities and arable land, in other words land and water sufficient for an agrarian society. The poor areas in much of the world lack those resources in quantities sufficient for the population. We can’t produce more land and when we provide more water we usually ultimately damage the land and make it even less productive. Reducing the population to a sustainable level, like we do for other species, would seem to make sense but people generally reject that suggestion.

In developed countries technology has replaced the need for basic resources with the need for jobs. Unless we are going to keep people as pets, like we did in the “projects” of the mid 1900’s, the need for jobs will persist. Beginning with the industrial revolution, every time technology has increased “productivity” the workers have suffered job losses. We can encourage development of jobs in areas that need them, but unless we can justify the expense, that is, get a return on the investment, we are back to keeping people as pets, albeit working pets.

Migration is a natural response to changing resource conditions. We may be able to induce migration to areas where workers are needed, if such areas exist. If such areas do not exist, and we cannot create them and get a return on the development expense, we are again left with the unpopular option of reducing the population.

One other option I can envision is for us to consider technological development the property of the nation. If we do that through taxation, many will say we are penalizing development of labor saving devices and procedures. Many seem to applaud the idea of imposing limits and penalties on one’s carbon footprint. I can imagine the uproar if we were try to impose limits and penalties on one’s labor saving footprint. Shall we tax a worker who uses a power saw more than one who uses a hand saw? Should a store clerk who uses a computer to ring up your bill pay more tax than one who uses a pad and pencil and does the math in her head? Or shall we give a worker a higher pay rate for producing less by hand than another worker who produces more using technology?

If we simply give people a “guaranteed annual income,” as has been suggested, we are back to keeping people as pets. Scrooge’s opinion that there is a “surplus population” may not be that far from the truth. The Bible says that the poor will be with us always. I expect that will be true, but we have the capacity for limiting the number of poor.

The Earth is a finite resource; there is a limit on how many people it is capable of supporting. That number may be a hundred or a thousand times the current population but I expect we are fast approaching the number that is sustainable. If we don’t take measures to control ourselves nature will likely do it for us. I think we can come up with measures which be be much less painful than the famines, pandemics and wars of the past; what we lack is the political will.

I was going to point out how you were nearly quoting Scrooge, but you did that yourself. Most people won’t do that, so kudos, sort of.

I’ve heard peak population estimates around 10 million, but very little discussion about what the earth can handle. I think it needs to be below 4 billion, where nitrogen is regenerated fast enough so we don’t need it subsidized from fossil sources

Books like the one OneGuy found are modern versions of the very old arguments for prejudice. With graphs and numbers, it appears he has a case. I highly doubt it. From reviews, it appears he is using “genetic” in a Social Darwinism sense, and does not provide any biological data or cause. As one of the 1-star reviewers on Amazon puts it:

He sweeps away, often with one big arrogant swoosh, alternative explanations for no good reason and without citations.
Sounds like some people I know.


Gotta hand it to you, outright dismissal is much more effective than reading the book.

Gotta hand it to you, outright dismissal is much more effective than reading the book. --oneguy
Oldest move in the book, the only way to have an opinion is to become an expert on the thing in question. Do you really think I couldn't known that a book like this is wrong before reading it? There is nothing anywhere that claims the DNA argument is anything but an assumption. Even the good reviews say, it collects data about people that indicates there "must be" a genetic connection. It doesn't do the simplest test to check that.

The book has been out for 7 years and no one is referencing it. Very few have bothered to create counter arguments, which is what happens when your arguments are so bad.

Maybe I’m cynical but I’d say Amazon reviews are probably not a good substitute for reading a book you want to critique.

You are cynical oneguy

"

The process of status transmission among elites may be fundamentally different from the process of status transmission in the entire population. If this is the case, it means that Clark’s results apply to a very particular type of persistence and should be interpreted as such. Clark acknowledges this possibility and argues against it; however, I think this is still an open question. ....

What I find less convincing is Clark’s account of the mechanism by which social status is maintained over such long periods. He is very quick to attribute social status to productive individual characteristics. In particular, he presumes that the achievement of status markers like education or wealth is driven by social competence, which he suggests is transmitted genetically.

…It seems important to note that there is more to social class than “competence.” The tendency for elites to employ social, cultural and legal institutions to maintain their position is well explored in the literature on political economy and history. I think Clark is too quick to dismiss the various institutional mechanisms through which class is transmitted in the societies under investigation in this book."


https://eh.net/book_reviews/the-son-also-rises-surnames-and-the-history-of-social-mobility/

I did find it in a few bibliographies, but I didn’t feel up to reading a page 300 page thesis to see how it fit in. That only shows that his data was collected with some degree of integrity, it says nothing about the conclusions he drew. So, to repeat, I don’t see others adding to or building on his work to come to the same conclusion he did. I only see people like you being happy that someone agrees with you. |

We find that the correlation between parent’s and offspring’s occupational percentile ranks increased considerably among Americans born prior to 1900 but remained largely constant thereafter. When mobility of farm-origin children is excluded, the overall trend persists but to a lesser degree. Our results provide evidence in support of the Lipset–Zetterberg hypothesis (20), which states that nonfarm mobility rates are largely invariant (21). The trend for absolute mobility is different, however: Upward mobility increased for birth cohorts prior to 1900 but has fallen for those born after 1940.
https://ipums.org/sites/www.ipums.org/files/song.pdf (21) is this book

While I have long suspected genes play a part in success and that’s why I read the book, attacking research for ideological reasons is not something I can support. Many atheists want science to be a source of morality but only if it supports their own morality – it can’t work that way.

Actually, I’m commenting on the science. The book is drawing a conclusion on insufficient data. Period.

@thatoneguy writes - Many atheists want science to be a source of morality but only if it supports their own morality
 
@thatoneguy, oh please do describe our morality?

Then can you describe your morality?


Or are these just empty words that flow from your mouth?

Is Ted Cruz an example of meaningful christian morality?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Also, why is Gender conflict such a conversation driver.

I mean really, in truth every homophobe I’ve ever met, and I have met many in my travels, it’s always a personal reaction

to their own unresolved sexual conflicts.

Anyone with a healthy inner mental physical sexual outlook, is at peace with it. What another does in their bedroom isn’t any skin off my nose.

All this gender jazz is a non-issue. Unless you are in the depths of our own conflicted sexuality, the struggle between what your evil body is telling you and what your dear leader and dogmatic elders have been drilling into head all your life.

It’s no wonder our nation is quite literally falling apart, with such pettiness and base nastiness, increasingly controlling people’s lives.

 

I know nothing about the real person behind the @thatoneguy, I suspect he’s not as bad as his words profile him, I imagine he just imagines it’s fun to irritate people he disrespects. But the character his words paint . . . oh never mind.

Just wish there wasn’t so much infantile thinking, believing, acting going on.

Actually, I’m commenting on the science. The book is drawing a conclusion on insufficient data. Period.
Again, you haven't read it and dismiss it for ideological reasons, so you don't know what the book is doing besides shining a light on a subject that is offensive to you.

 

 

Also, why is Gender conflict such a conversation driver.

I mean really, in truth every homophobe I’ve ever met, and I have met many in my travels, it’s always a personal reaction

to their own unresolved sexual conflicts.

Anyone with a healthy inner mental physical sexual outlook, is at peace with it. What another does in their bedroom isn’t any skin off my nose.

All this gender jazz is a non-issue. Unless you are in the depths of our own conflicted sexuality, the struggle between what your evil body is telling you and what your dear leader and dogmatic elders have been drilling into head all your life.

It’s no wonder our nation is quite literally falling apart, with such pettiness and base nastiness, increasingly controlling people’s lives.


The mid-20th century called and wants their Freudian psychobabble returned asap.

All psychobabble aside, a nasty jerk is a nasty jerk.

Again, you haven’t read it and dismiss it for ideological reasons, so you don’t know what the book is doing besides shining a light on a subject that is offensive to you.
I also have opinions on the Mars landing, Texas energy policy, and your mother, but I haven't read any books on those either. You make up a hurdle that is unnecessary. The author himself will tell you he doesn't do any biology or genetic research, but then makes a DNA argument. I've based what I said on that.

Have you read at least one other book that makes the opposite case of this one? If not, how did you form your opinion?

@lausten,

Have you read at least one other book that makes the opposite case of this one? If not, how did you form your opinion?


L, you know, that if you asked me that, I’d be obligate to offer a serious response.

Let’s see how the guy does, with your simple straight forward question.