Faith

The word credit, from the Latin, means “believes.” Faith, credit and belief can, but needn’t be blind or without reason. They are established based upon experience, knowledge, reason etc. You have faith in loved ones, family, friends, associates or the rise and setting of the sun, money etc.

Jesus said faith can move mountains, and if you’ve ever seen a mining operation in the mountains you’ve seen faith in money in action. There’s no logical reason why faith without money, faith in God, for example, couldn’t accomplish the same thing.

Mining

I was just reminded of this one the other day. It’s the best use of the words hope, faith and love that I can think of.

“Nothing that is worth doing can be achieved in our lifetime; therefore we must be saved by hope.

Nothing which is true or beautiful or good makes complete sense in any immediate context of history; therefore we must be saved by faith.

Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we must be saved by love.

No virtuous act is quite as virtuous from the standpoint of our friend or foe as it is from our standpoint. Therefore we must be saved by the final form of love which is forgiveness.”

Reinhold Neibuhr

@Lausten

???

Perfect!

Faith can move mountains. I can see that. But Faith does not require reason. Hence it just might move the mountains, the wrong direction.

Faith is basically deciding to believe something REGARDLESS of reason.

Some choose to believe that global warming is just a hoax. Some choose to believe that the Earth is 6000 yrs old. Some choose to believe that Jesus will return for the Apocalypse when Israel rebuilds the Temple. Some choose to believe that T rump will make America great again. Self fulfilling prophecies are sometimes too divorced from reality to fulfill themselves.

@TimB

Point well made!

Faith can move mountains. I can see that. But Faith does not require reason.
Faith doesn't necessarily require reason but that doesn't mean it is necessarily without reason. Faith can include reason.
Faith is basically deciding to believe something REGARDLESS of reason.
Faith can be without reason or it can be with reason, just like . . . what's a good example? I know. Like critical thinking, criticism, atheism, science, religion, etc.
Some choose to believe that global warming is just a hoax.
It is.

https://youtu.be/bpxAIYrtGLw

Some choose to believe that the Earth is 6000 yrs old.
Not me.
Some choose to believe that Jesus will return for the Apocalypse when Israel rebuilds the Temple.
Not me. Jesus was never meant to return. The Bible doesn't teach it.
Some choose to believe that T rump will make America great again.
Again? When was it great before? American politics is a smokescreen to keep you distracted to what really is going on. Trump is a puppet just like all of his predecessors.
Self fulfilling prophecies are sometimes too divorced from reality to fulfill themselves.
What exactly are you talking about? What 'self fulfilling prophecies' are you referring to?

Faith in the Bible is more aligned with trust.

I trust that Jesus rose from the dead:

Roman Empire wanted to crush christianity but didn’t have access to Jesus’s body (cause he rose from the dead)

The Apostles died for christ (Liars make bad martyrs)

500 people claims to have seen christ after his crucifixion

as a historical document, The New Testament is very accurate.

So yeah I trust that Jesus Will come back.

Every religious person has faith in their version of god. Are all religious people correct? Is the god that motivate(s/ed) slave owners the same one who motivated Mother Theresa’s love of poverty and suffering? Is it the same god motivating the transport of Bibles instead of food and medicine to starving communities, or telling little old ladies to give all their life savings to a multi-millionaire televangelist?

Until you can show how faith-based decision-making is even remotely rational, your choice to use faith will be criticized. Why not use reason, logic and data to support decisions? That way when you find out something new, you can change to be more correct.

Faith is a one-way dead-end street (thanks Stephen Wright) that not only leads nowhere, but can never lead anywhere, no matter how you twist it around and dress it up.

There’s no logical reason why faith without money, faith in God, for example, couldn’t accomplish the same thing.
This is a setup for a self-fulfilling prophecy. Faith in money does not move mountains. Fear of starvation and homelessness and a desire to live better caused men to take a job mining a mountain with the certain knowledge that they would be paid for it and that the money they would be paid could be exchanged for the goods and services they desired. In this scenario if a church guys a mining operation, Jesus was right! But that's obviously not what he meant. And I'm pretty sure that part is metaphorical anyway. I don't think Jesus was really saying that faith would allow you to use the awesome power of God to rearrange his furniture.

And you’re redefining faith here to suit your needs. The definition of faith specifically says that it is belief without reason or knowledge, regardless its origins. I don’t have faith in money. I know how money works. I’ve seen it work my entire life. I don’t have faith in my family. I know from experience that they are basically good people, but, politically, idiots. I don’t have faith in the rising and setting of the sun. I know how it works. I understand what it would take to stop it and realize that nothing we know of has that much power and, if it did stop, I wouldn’t survive to see the sunrise missed. It doesn’t take faith to know that the sun will rise and set my entire life. The energy it would take to stop that would kill all life on Earth. So even if something did stop it from happening it would still rise and set “my entire life”.

If I had faith in anything it would have to be in science. But NOT faith that science is “real”. I know that science is “real”. I’m responding on a prime example of the usefulness of science right now. Rather faith in the scientists themselves and in the methodology set up that I can reasonably accept what they are saying, BUT, given the understanding that even they say that they may be wrong and I should never just believe anything they say to be “true”. So even that is faith with limits.

Hiep Huynh said : So yeah I trust that Jesus Will come back.
When? Will that be before or after you die? And when he comes back what will he do? What will you do?

Think carefully about these questions because now you are entering the domain of science. To believe something is fine. To make physical predictions requires science, such as predictions of physically rising from the dead. Can’t do that against God’s laws.

You are speaking metaphorically of course?

"Some choose to believe that global warming is just a hoax".

David Leon said : It is.


And on what authority are you basing that answer?

David literally said “bye” 20 days ago. That was his last post. He is not blocked, but that’s how he decided to respond to my lecturing.

Marc Morano, in the video above, is a former Climate Change Misinformer of the Year. He was funded by the Heritage Foundation, which is funded by sources such as the Kochs, and Exxon Mobil. The disinformation on global warming has been an on-going industry, in itself, for many decades now.

 

Yes, all designed for profitable beneficiaries of the “Halliburton loophole” along with all the other exploiters of Natural Resouces.

Exemptions for hydraulic fracturing under United States federal law

There are many exemptions for hydraulic fracturing under United States federal law: the oil and gas industries are exempt or excluded from certain sections of a number of the major federal environmental laws.

These laws range from protecting clean water and air, to preventing the release of toxic substances and chemicals into the environment: the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, National Environmental Policy Act, Resource Conservation and Recovery Act, Emergency Planning and Community Right-to-Know Act, and the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act, commonly known as Superfund.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exemptions_for_hydraulic_fracturing_under_United_States_federal_law

But I have “faith” that these good Christian people will do the right thing, instead of making more vulgar profits to satisfy their “stockholders”.

David literally said “bye” 20 days ago. That was his last post. He is not blocked, but that’s how he decided to respond to my lecturing.
All too common with fundamentalist Christians. They simply cannot handle an opposing view. It infuriates them that someone may not simply accept their mythology without question or, if they're really in the devil's grips, have an opposing view of their own.

Wonderfully expressed, thank you Mr. Lausten for remembering and posting those words. I suppose it’s like saying everything takes place within a greater and more enduring context.

once we have a notion of gods, spirits, or faith in something that we allow to mature in our mind we try to convince others it is true

this is how thousands of religions have emerged and failed as the acceleration of church failure is occurring today church members are figuring out biblical era literature is storyteller stories with embedded supernatural characters and events (as in a naked woman, a naked man, a fruit, and a talking snake). Mixing some things that could be true with some things that could not be true was the genre of the day.

Hal said; Mixing some things that could be true with some things that could not be true was the genre of the day
Indeed,

History Of Storytelling

Today, stories are an intrinsic part of our societies and culture. Movies, books, music, news media, religions, architecture and painting, you name it, and the influence of storytelling is to be seen in all aspects of our life. Defining our values, desires, dreams and, as well as our prejudices and hatreds, don’t you want to know how it all began? Well, the history of Storytelling is the prime focus of this article.

Traditionally, the oral stories have been handed over from generation to generation. Read on to know everything about the origins of storytelling.

The storytelling history is quite ancient, lost in the mist of time. Nobody knows when the first story was actually told. Did it happen in the gloomy recess of a cave around a flickering fire told by a primitive hunter? Well, we may never know. But it is believed that origin of storytelling may have come across as an excuse for failure. Perhaps stories were used long time ago to calm the fears or doubts of a family. As families grouped with other families and formed clans, the storyteller, who was good at telling heroic events or other important events of the tribe began to reach position of respect and power. People found them interesting and began to listen to them. The priest, the judge and the ruler were perhaps the earliest to use this art effectively in the history of storytelling. Storytelling days were considered important.

http://www.storytellingday.net/history-of-storytelling-how-did-storytelling.html