Existential Crisis for Logical People

General Discussion
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I’m not even sure where to put this as we’re talking about everything, not just conspiracies.

Let me start this off with the cliche by saying extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and the only thing I believe that has changed is that extraordinary people are claiming extraordinary evidence exists. My attention is piqued, but with boat loads of skepticism. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an emotional impact, these possible realities. Until we get much more than what we’ve been given and they’ve been examined by qualified people I trust, you won’t get me to aliens or whatever existing and being here.

I’ve been having a bit of a problem lately, truly crushing depression that I can’t get over and it stems from a place I thought I was immune. I was always into science as a child and with a young, open mind, naturally gravitated towards the UFOs and the paranormal. By the time I was say, 14 or so I had what I thought a pretty damn good handle on how to recognize a pseudo science and move on.

That of course doesn’t stop you or your imagination from engaging in thought experiments on reality, etc. but they’re all safe because you’re grounded in a world where cause and effect is an unbreakable reality. You can see men of faith throughout history clinging to their own flawed understandings like the earth being the center and double-down on “no really, just follow the data.” You understand why the scientific method exists and you stand up against charlatans.

The problem I’ve encountered is people from the director level up, including US Presidents claiming these specific UFOs exist. This tic-tac or top shaped stuff doing specifically these things, going in water, mountains, etc. are being paraded as if they’re real and we’re about to be revealed something. Congress is literally passing bipartisan legislation, embedded in the Defense Act of 2022 turning the entire issue over to scientists and civilians.

There are two main things that are causing this deep despair. First, these things are not possible. If they’re possible we should be incredibly frightened of the unknown. Anything that can do these things has complete and total dominion over us in every conceivable facet. For us to accomplish these things as humans in physics as we understand and proven to exist we’d have to summon the energies of a quasar. If that’s possible and they do exist and life is common then the fact that we don’t see anything in the universe should scare us even more. I feel like as someone who understands physics, entertaining these realities is frightening on a level most people, really, really don’t understand.

The second thing is that these UFOs are not new they’ve been with us at least for the past 70 years. People like me would relegate it to a pseudo science because of the time elapsed and the attention its received coupled with the conclusions. To come out and say these specific UFOs exist and have existed during this time is to immediately get to layers of insanity that just can’t be reasonably considered. Everything you’ve ever heard about cattle mutilations and moscovium needs to be re-examined because this narrative didn’t just start in 2017 with a NYTimes article. Physicists have had to answer questions near daily on this crap for generations and everything that’s “real” has always led to obfuscated US counter-intel I think most “normal” people assumed were hiding things like nuclear secrets or combating Russian disinformation.

The implications of even 5% of any of this crap being true I don’t think “normal” people are really considering. Everyone is so excited by, whatever, that they’re missing a very ominous big picture. What the hell is going on and how do you psychologically cope in this in between period when we find out if this is just another round of BS or we’re truly in store for some reality shaking revelations?

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Frankly I cannot get too excited about a sighting of an unidentified flying object or any unidentified object , for that matter.

I like Identified objects . They add to knowledge rather than pure speculation.

What makes you think Life is mysterious and beyond understanding?

There are no supernatural phenomena. There are only as yet unknown natural phenomena, but not many.

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Saying it’s in between assumes there is some chance worth worrying about. It’s been BS for a long time, so that sets the odds very low. The Drake equation lists what we should consider and there are massive efforts for things like finding exo planets. Fermi also gave a question to ponder and the responses to it give us more to ponder, like, should we be advertising that we are a planet with life?

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You need to walk. Identify every tree, shrub, gutter plant. Live in those moments. And obsess over proper trivia, like how to get the lines perfectly sharp between different wall paints. Your crisis, like Fermi’s Fallacy, is a non-problem. Meaningless. Like life. There is absolutely zero ‘probability’ and less, negative probability, of detecting the life that the universe dysteleologically swarms with.

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You need to walk. Identify every tree, shrub, gutter plant. Live in those moments. And obsess over proper trivia, like how to get the lines perfectly sharp between different wall paints.

This is ultimately part of the solution and thank you for reminding me. Don’t want to go into this next part without ID’ing a major component to what I’m trying to get in advice.

Your crisis, like Fermi’s Fallacy, is a non-problem. Meaningless. Like life. There is absolutely zero ‘probability’ and less, negative probability, of detecting the life that the universe dysteleologically swarms with.

I’m not sure that it is because it’s rooted in two potential realities I hold as one necessarily true, they’re both things I find alarming and / or offensive that require action from people with more power and are smarter than me with teams of intelligent peers. Let’s cover the likeliest scenario here that I see based on the facts presented. The US government is involved in a multi-national conspiracy to guard its secrets and uses false information about aliens and manipulates its citizens and their beliefs for their own goals. The level in which this is true is what I find astonishingly alarming.

A documentary I would recommend which doesn’t hide the fact that it’s all BS is Mirage Men. That doc was the catalyst to my freak out because everything we’re seeing reported on now is straight from this stream of disinformation. If we are at the point where Presidents, Senators and intel directors in the year 2021 are lying to the American public about aliens to influence their decisions and manipulate them for their own outcomes then we are in fact living with a state religion. You could literally create a sentence on how the state has used the Church to these ends throughout history and madlib out the nouns. This needs attention, we’re in control and that requires a clear head. Collectively.

The second possibility is that there’s somehow some truth to something behind all of this. The powers that be would apparently have us believe tic-tac UFOs are a thing we should look at without any credible evidence. I feel like I don’t have to go into why this is a freigtening ordeal because ultimately I come from a place of thinking teleological bs is bs and carry with me to my core your exact same views on the nature of the universe and dysteology.

So again, the thing I believe, logically is the former scenario. I’m truly freaked out by the fact that my government is manifesting itself like this and I guess that lends credence to the far less likely scenario, that there are crafts on this planet that can go into solid mountains.

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All nuclear armed governments have done this since the 50s, the CIA & KGB signalled to each other with it, to cool the Cold War an nth. Ignore the crazy frightened power mad bastards.

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All nuclear armed governments have done this since the 50s, the CIA & KGB signalled to each other with it, to cool the Cold War an nth. Ignore the crazy frightened power mad bastards.

Absolutely and we can speculate on tons of inane theories that don’t involve aliens that easily demonstrate their motivation for it, that doesn’t make it right and that doesn’t mean we’re at the same level of alarm as when nuclear weapons were proliferating between the USSR and the US. Project Orion was a pretty cool plan to launch orbits using cheap nuclear bombs, it necessitated 1,000 bombs to reach orbit and Freemon Dyson apparently invented a small yield nuclear weapon that costs under $100,000 and was simple with minimal fissile material. That’s the exact kind of thing we don’t want out as it’s the exact kind of bomb a smaller state would want to build. That stuff is wholly worth protecting and I don’t think we have to flush it out any further.

I’m not questioning even the need for secrecy. Clearly as a species we have powers we can’t share with everyone equally. If you gave 8 billion people 1,000 nuclear warheads each the planet would be over in 5 minutes.

All I’m saying is that conditions are such, today that clear mistakes during the cold war that we allowed because of “desperate times” should not just be accepted as business as usual. Truman talking about aliens while we were a hell of a lot more ignorant on the subject is a whole lot different than Obama or Ambassador/Former CIA Director Woolsey.

If we need to fix the classification system, let’s fix the classification system instead of turning the American people into manipulated zombies. Think about how this impacts the population psychologically. Think about how the government preys on people like you. If you make the mistake of making a scientific breakthrough that has a national security interest you’re no longer allowed to be an objective observer of reality, end of story.

F-that to convey my anger. I do not accept this behavior from our government in 2021.

Edit: A rhetorical question, which is better, that Obama believes these are real, physically existing UFOs and is perpetrating a headless intel operation or that he’s in on the game? My point is, neither, both I find equally alarming. And this is the most likely thing that’s going on with the other thing being you know, f-causality.

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Science has advanced, we have more data, there is a push-back on the stigma.
That’s why they are now calling them Unidentified Areal Phenomena and are starting to study them.
They are not saying they are aliens.

Think of it like a cold case. Everyone laughed when someone said The Butler Did It 50 years ago, but now with scientific advances we can now have DNA evidence that proves it was true (or false)

Or Sprites for example. Very few believed in them until one was finally photographed in 1989: (this isn’t the photograph, just an example of plenty more that have been captured since)

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I, for one, am not afraid to admit I don’t know everything. Even the collective knowledge of mankind doesn’t know Everything.

We’ve lasted this long without being invaded and enslaved or slaughtered by aliens, why should the next 100 years be any different?

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This is exactly the problem and how smart people get trapped up in this. A number of people can walk you through the reality of what it would take to create an, we’d only have to assume, Einstein Rosen-Bridge to facilitate the wormholes Luis Elizando claims to exist. (PS, always question everything when it links to The History Channel)

They have traps built for every intelligent person, answers to every question. If you think you’re immune to it, you’re wrong and full of yourself. I’m telling you all of the crap @martin-peter-clarke is slinging is stuff I actually believe and believed prior to being “freaked out.” He talked about dysteology, let me tell you I come from teology-land and thus consider myself probably even more immune than him.

This crap goes so deep that I can convince literally anyone here they should at least share my level alarm about the pervasiveness. Perhaps that’s where I go intellectually, emotionally I read what you wrote and I feel like you feel. We’re here as people who don’t bow to those emotions without fact and need to remain rooted in that.

This is what I was feeling pretty positive about if you look at the actual legislation, you’d feel comfortable with the people they’re putting in that office. But, then we have this which clearly indicates to me that we haven’t decided to let the civilians handle it. How do we know the Pentagon isn’t now going to dis-inform the civilian office and either make them believe in aliens one way or the other to their ends? Do any of us here think the people mentioned in the legislation for public disclosure can’t be trusted?

There needs to be absolute clarity on all of this because you don’t have to dig to find the crazy from places we all trust.

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I’m immune to rabbit warrens. Never go down them.

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On that front you’re wiser than me. Curiosity kills the cat and they bet on that. If someone like you were to be a target they’d find a way to invest in your doubt with their fabrications and feed you evidence that would make you act the way they want because they really don’t care about your quest for truth, just keeping secrets from China, right?

It doesn’t have to be aliens right? We all have our own religion and are biased to find evidence to support that world view. If we’re to assume there are no aliens, something we both are assuming then why would we assume counter-intel in this area is limited to aliens and the paranormal?

It doesn’t matter what is being hidden, it matters we’re being manipulated on a large scale and are still blind to what we’re being manipulated about.

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I KNOW that everyone’s telling me a story, including me. I work with vulnerable people and know that everything they tell me is true. But isn’t the truth. I believe the stories of science and history, anything that is evidence based.

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Exactly, we need people who think like you at the top of their fields with accolades to publicly handle all of this according to the scientific method.

Before we even begin to go down that road, there needs to be full disclosure and a back away by the military. This is fever pitch when we’re passing this kinds of legislation and have our elected leaders talking in such grandiose, broad terms.

We don’t even know what we don’t know and yet we’re like, “UFOs! WOOOO LET’S FIND OUT MORE!” The water is not that clear. We need clear water before we proceed.