It is absolutely a value for us.
Multiculturalism is great as long as:
-all share the same set of values
- some donât reject the idea of sharing and exchanging under the pretext of cultural appropriation.
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Guess Iâm being a little picky here. I would call âtoleranceâ a virtue, a moral standard. Values are active, like caring or being patient.
[quote=âmitch70, post:13, topic:8333â]
Who here lives on land you feel was stolen by Indians?
I think you need to edit that statement.
I believe it goes something like ; âWho here lives on land you feel was stolen from Indians?â
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I was originally looking for a simple video of a map/timelapse that showed human migratory paths, but this came up and though it get into the weeds, itâs fascinating. Iâll save the short version for some other time.
[quote=âwrite4u, post:24, topic:8333, full:trueâ]
Nah, I have the feeling he meant what he said, as in - well, the Indians must of stolen it from someone else. Yup, from the established wilderness and creatures that were preexisting there. Then later from each other here and there. Then came whitie.
But then perhaps man was always destined to rule the Earth, with a self-assumed right to take whatever they wanted, to do with as they pleased.
I have the feeling that thread runs through all humans. But some peoples where more appreciative of who buttered their bread, so to speak.
[quote=âcitizenschallengev4, post:26, topic:8333â]
Nah, I have the feeling he meant what he said, as in - well, the Indians must of stolen it from someone else. Yup, from the established wilderness and creatures that were preexisting there.
Even that is incorrect. Indians didnât steal anything from anybody, except perhaps from each other. Indians lived in harmony with the environment and all other creatures.
They killed only what was necessary for survival and used every part of what they killed.
Then came whitie and slaughtered anything that they could for sport and luxury from trains and left the tens of thousands carcasses to rot .
[quote=âwrite4u, post:24, topic:8333, full:trueâ]
My lies have been exposed. I really thought for this one time in my life that my diabolical evil plan to overthrow this forum in a reign or eternal torment was to come, but you somehow foiled all my plans in a revealing post I tried so hard to cover up. Touche
So they werenât all peace lovers? Were there any Native Americans that we land grabbers?
[quote=âwrite4u, post:24, topic:8333, full:trueâ]
W4U Yeah I thought I edited that, but it was late when I posted it. At least you were objective enough to recognize this. I make mistakes in my posts, and Iâm sure Iâll make more in the future. Whatâs funny is I calibrate a personality on their reactions more than their posts. People post what they want people to see, and react often to who they really are. At least thatâs my belief, and Iâm sure that Iâve been guilty of doing the same in other regards. As I said, Iâm a mixed bag. Iâll call you out when I disagree with you as much as Iâll support you when I agree, much the same way that I would do with anyone on this forum, so for what little it means to others, it means a great deal to me that you were being objective, and not snarky about it.
[quote=âmitch70, post:29, topic:8333â]
So they werenât all peace lovers? Were there any Native Americans that we land grabbers?
AFAIK humans have never been very peaceful. We can see our mean streak already in the âcommon chimpanzeeâ.
However the Bonobo Chimp is extremely peaceful and are the Hippies of the great apes.
Their unspoken motto is âmake love, not warâ and true to that pledge, they settle most disputes by lovemaking.
Not likely. I understand that in olden times, Indians did not believe in land ownership, but did claim certain territories as their âhunting groundsâ.
The best, and I think the only solution, is for more of us to follow Mrianaâs lead. America was supposed to be a âmelting potâ. Cross-ethnic procreation, as in Brazil, is touted as the way to eliminate racism. Who are you going to hate because of ethnicity if we all look and act alike?
We have come a long way already. The number of âpure bredâ people of any ethnicity in this country is extremely small. I have heard there are perhaps a few dozen Cherokee who can claim only native ancestry back more than seven generations. The same is likely true of other native tribes and for most people with any slave ancestry as well as for the vast majority of those of any European origins.
Segregating people, whether it is by housing projects or reservations slows cross procreation and uniform cultural adaptation and even encourages ethnic pride which reinforces division. Weâre doing better eliminating segregation today. Eliminating media stereotypes would help.
As far as requiring people today to pay for the actions of others in the past, forget about it. There is not a fair system possible. We might try to base how much one pays and how much one receives on his/her ethnic mix and the timing of that mixing but that would be a nightmare. It just wonât happen.
Well, you knowâŚ
This is one of my triggering/get my soapbox kind of comments.
And, I have the ultimate authority, my brother is an archeologist! 
What he tells me is, he has found arrowheads lodged in peopleâs backbones and histories of villages that can be traced by following their garbage piles, then they move upstream because they polluted their water.
We also know they kept their populations mostly stable and did things like controlled burns to promote the growth of the trees and plants that they used, and the famous migrations that followed the buffalos. Also legends and eventually written words that talked of the dangers of hoarding and of accumulating wealth for the sake of wealth. In contrast, Western civilization glorified accumulation and developed economies based on short-term gains and population growth.
I remember a while back watching a video on the Bonobo using sex as a solution, but I wasnât aware that they had been peach-loving. Just to be clear, Iâm not being sarcastic. On the flip side, I had watched a video on the Ngogo chimpanzeesâŚughâŚIâd recommend steering clear of watching that one, but it does give an interesting dynamic on just how the culture of the group can highly influence the outcome of the individualsâ
But this is just mincing words around and avoiding the point. When people argue that Indians didnât believe in land ownership. That is essentially saying at a personal level that no one could own a designated area of land. This doesnât make them better people for thinking this way. Itâs just how they viewed civil rights within their tribes.
Hereâs a counter-argument, there were many war-bound tribes that existed, and though they may not have believed in owning land at a personal level, there were territories that were protected between them. Anyone opposing tribe that decidedly pushing themselves within that territory would be considered a hostile act and would be met with violence. The Comancheâs probably didnât believe in land ownership as they raided in massive groups slaughtering the weaker tribes for their resources. You can argue the Comanche were the enforcers of the free land society.
This video looks great, but Iâll need to see it tomorrow.
[quote=âwrite4u, post:31, topic:8333â]
Not likely. I understand that in olden times, Indians did not believe in land ownership, but did claim certain territories as their âhunting groundsâ.
[quote=âmitch70, post:35, topic:8333â]
But this is just mincing words around and avoiding the point. When people argue that Indians didnât believe in land ownership. That is essentially saying at a personal level that no one could own a designated area of land. This doesnât make them better people for thinking this way. Itâs just how they viewed civil rights within their tribes.
It just means that there were no barbed wire fences.
I have a long-term solution to black slavery of the past. Because of the severity of cognizance dissonance that constitutes the argument, the only solution is, those who defend or otherwise uphold the slavory of other humans must die off as all inhumanity must die off.
There may have been a time when that was a viable solution. We can see the monuments to stupidity that lay idle in desserts, the meaning of their artwork lost, long ago. The people who gave their sweat to move the stones, abandoned them and moved on. But we donât have anywhere to move on anymore. There isnât another river to fish.
We donât have time for a generation to pass, to create its own mythology, to keep what they liked from their ancestors, and try to come up with something better. We have to make this work.
whatever lausten. it is inevitable and will still take 10 or more years.