Seriously, how can a thread where men seek to determine what women should wear have anything to do with modesty??? Seriously, men reveal too much of their minds.Do they have "too much" to reveal?
round and round we go ...Very ethical. I applaud you. :-) Yes I am a very ethical person! What's the deal with you? - In light of your comments here I simply can't imagine the barrenness of your mindscape. Webplodder what are your ethics like? I ask because you sound more like a Misogynist than anything else. Variety is beautiful. Haven't you heard humanity is a rainbow and women are wonderful in all their aspects :cheese: Why do you have to use the same boring old labels just because I have a different point of view from yours? You should be arguing based on the merits of either side instead of throwing labels about. Don't be taken in by the feminist rhetoric, it's deceptive. I'm also wondering how many women you have met. They're not all wonderful, you know.You can look away from the lady, yes, but it's already too late as the emotional impact of seeing a sexy lady has been registered.Yeah a beautiful woman, especially provocatively dressed one, yes, the male mind registers beautiful sexy woman. Perhaps even occasionally a fleeting eye to eye passes between you and said goddess and damned that particularly cuties registers down in your body. Know what I do, and I suspect all healthy males do, enjoy the sensation of still being alive while moving along. Its all a part of being a human and part of a vibrant community. But then I've gone through life by entirely different code of ethics than I think you can imagine. For instance here's been a wonderful golden rule I formulated in my twenties and oh boy, lordie has it served me quite well these past decades. "I don't want anything from anyone that they don't want to offer me." Living that attitude makes dust of all your anguished contrivances. Take responsibility for yourself - stop expecting others to babysit you.
Seriously, how can a thread where men seek to determine what women should wear have anything to do with modesty??? Seriously, men reveal too much of their minds.Do they have "too much" to reveal? Does this mean you are a misandrist?
round and round we go ...Very ethical. I applaud you. :-) Yes I am a very ethical person! What's the deal with you? - In light of your comments here I simply can't imagine the barrenness of your mindscape. Webplodder what are your ethics like? I ask because you sound more like a Misogynist than anything else. Variety is beautiful. Haven't you heard humanity is a rainbow and women are wonderful in all their aspects :cheese: Why do you have to use the same boring old labels just because I have a different point of view from yours? You should be arguing based on the merits of either side instead of throwing labels about. Don't be taken in by the feminist rhetoric, it's deceptive. I'm also wondering how many women you have met. They're not all wonderful, you know.White-Knighting is all it is.You can look away from the lady, yes, but it's already too late as the emotional impact of seeing a sexy lady has been registered.Yeah a beautiful woman, especially provocatively dressed one, yes, the male mind registers beautiful sexy woman. Perhaps even occasionally a fleeting eye to eye passes between you and said goddess and damned that particularly cuties registers down in your body. Know what I do, and I suspect all healthy males do, enjoy the sensation of still being alive while moving along. Its all a part of being a human and part of a vibrant community. But then I've gone through life by entirely different code of ethics than I think you can imagine. For instance here's been a wonderful golden rule I formulated in my twenties and oh boy, lordie has it served me quite well these past decades. "I don't want anything from anyone that they don't want to offer me." Living that attitude makes dust of all your anguished contrivances. Take responsibility for yourself - stop expecting others to babysit you.
round and round we go ...Very ethical. I applaud you. :-) Yes I am a very ethical person! What's the deal with you? - In light of your comments here I simply can't imagine the barrenness of your mindscape. Webplodder what are your ethics like? I ask because you sound more like a Misogynist than anything else. Variety is beautiful. Haven't you heard humanity is a rainbow and women are wonderful in all their aspects :cheese: Why do you have to use the same boring old labels just because I have a different point of view from yours? You should be arguing based on the merits of either side instead of throwing labels about. Don't be taken in by the feminist rhetoric, it's deceptive. I'm also wondering how many women you have met. They're not all wonderful, you know.White-Knighting is all it is. I'm all for White-Knighting as long as there's plenty of damsels-in-distress about. ;-)You can look away from the lady, yes, but it's already too late as the emotional impact of seeing a sexy lady has been registered.Yeah a beautiful woman, especially provocatively dressed one, yes, the male mind registers beautiful sexy woman. Perhaps even occasionally a fleeting eye to eye passes between you and said goddess and damned that particularly cuties registers down in your body. Know what I do, and I suspect all healthy males do, enjoy the sensation of still being alive while moving along. Its all a part of being a human and part of a vibrant community. But then I've gone through life by entirely different code of ethics than I think you can imagine. For instance here's been a wonderful golden rule I formulated in my twenties and oh boy, lordie has it served me quite well these past decades. "I don't want anything from anyone that they don't want to offer me." Living that attitude makes dust of all your anguished contrivances. Take responsibility for yourself - stop expecting others to babysit you.
You can look away from the lady, yes, but it's already too late as the emotional impact of seeing a sexy lady has been registered.Get over it, boy! It is not the lady's problem. She should not change her style for you. If you are grown up enough, you could certainly look at her like your mother, sister, daughter or granddaughter. They all have the same general body features as that sexy lady, and in a nation of people that are worth calling humans, they all have the right to dress comfortably and stylishly, including what some people call provocatively. I felt disgusted when I saw a news story from Saudi Arabia a few months back. A middle age woman was a participant in some kind of an election in that jungle nation. Her handsome young son had to drive her around in order for her to campaign, as she was not allowed to drive in that country. If people like that young man grew up with the sense of human dignity, they would have revolted to bring that sense to that nation, instead of complying with the subjugation of women, including their mothers. You see, by saying something like 'it's not the lady's problem' you endorse whatever way women choose to dress and I don't think that's fair because you are indulging women too much. Women have the freedom to dress pretty much how they want but with freedom comes responsibility and by ignoring responsibility women invite scorn which can lead to a loss of freedom in the long run. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should and I think this is what is lacking nowadays. We all have freedoms but the trick is to exercise your freedom while allowing others to exercise theirs. If people aren't prepared to compromise then they deserve derision. The problem is with modern technology is that it has a tendency to change social norms and I guess Islam seeks to guard against this by maintaining the old ways. Would a woman be any better off driving a car? We managed for thousands of years without all of these newfangled inventions and I sometimes think we all too often place too high a value on machines.
You can look away from the lady, yes, but it's already too late as the emotional impact of seeing a sexy lady has been registered.Get over it, boy! It is not the lady's problem. She should not change her style for you. If you are grown up enough, you could certainly look at her like your mother, sister, daughter or granddaughter. They all have the same general body features as that sexy lady, and in a nation of people that are worth calling humans, they all have the right to dress comfortably and stylishly, including what some people call provocatively. I felt disgusted when I saw a news story from Saudi Arabia a few months back. A middle age woman was a participant in some kind of an election in that jungle nation. Her handsome young son had to drive her around in order for her to campaign, as she was not allowed to drive in that country. If people like that young man grew up with the sense of human dignity, they would have revolted to bring that sense to that nation, instead of complying with the subjugation of women, including their mothers. You see, by saying something like 'it's not the lady's problem' you endorse whatever way women choose to dress and I don't think that's fair because you are indulging women too much. Women have the freedom to dress pretty much how they want but with freedom comes responsibility and by ignoring responsibility women invite scorn which can lead to a loss of freedom in the long run. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should and I think this is what is lacking nowadays. We all have freedoms but the trick is to exercise your freedom while allowing others to exercise theirs. If people aren't prepared to compromise then they deserve derision. The problem is with modern technology is that it has a tendency to change social norms and I guess Islam seeks to guard against this by maintaining the old ways. Would a woman be any better off driving a car? We managed for thousands of years without all of these newfangled inventions and I sometimes think we all too often place too high a value on machines.
You can look away from the lady, yes, but it's already too late as the emotional impact of seeing a sexy lady has been registered.Get over it, boy! It is not the lady's problem. She should not change her style for you. If you are grown up enough, you could certainly look at her like your mother, sister, daughter or granddaughter. They all have the same general body features as that sexy lady, and in a nation of people that are worth calling humans, they all have the right to dress comfortably and stylishly, including what some people call provocatively. I felt disgusted when I saw a news story from Saudi Arabia a few months back. A middle age woman was a participant in some kind of an election in that jungle nation. Her handsome young son had to drive her around in order for her to campaign, as she was not allowed to drive in that country. If people like that young man grew up with the sense of human dignity, they would have revolted to bring that sense to that nation, instead of complying with the subjugation of women, including their mothers. You see, by saying something like 'it's not the lady's problem' you endorse whatever way women choose to dress and I don't think that's fair because you are indulging women too much. Women have the freedom to dress pretty much how they want but with freedom comes responsibility and by ignoring responsibility women invite scorn which can lead to a loss of freedom in the long run. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should and I think this is what is lacking nowadays. We all have freedoms but the trick is to exercise your freedom while allowing others to exercise theirs. If people aren't prepared to compromise then they deserve derision. The problem is with modern technology is that it has a tendency to change social norms and I guess Islam seeks to guard against this by maintaining the old ways. Would a woman be any better off driving a car? We managed for thousands of years without all of these newfangled inventions and I sometimes think we all too often place too high a value on machines. This is my lazy little post which quotes masses of text only to add nothing of value to the conversation.
You can look away from the lady, yes, but it's already too late as the emotional impact of seeing a sexy lady has been registered.Get over it, boy! It is not the lady's problem. She should not change her style for you. If you are grown up enough, you could certainly look at her like your mother, sister, daughter or granddaughter. They all have the same general body features as that sexy lady, and in a nation of people that are worth calling humans, they all have the right to dress comfortably and stylishly, including what some people call provocatively. I felt disgusted when I saw a news story from Saudi Arabia a few months back. A middle age woman was a participant in some kind of an election in that jungle nation. Her handsome young son had to drive her around in order for her to campaign, as she was not allowed to drive in that country. If people like that young man grew up with the sense of human dignity, they would have revolted to bring that sense to that nation, instead of complying with the subjugation of women, including their mothers. You see, by saying something like 'it's not the lady's problem' you endorse whatever way women choose to dress and I don't think that's fair because you are indulging women too much. Women have the freedom to dress pretty much how they want but with freedom comes responsibility and by ignoring responsibility women invite scorn which can lead to a loss of freedom in the long run. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should and I think this is what is lacking nowadays. We all have freedoms but the trick is to exercise your freedom while allowing others to exercise theirs. If people aren't prepared to compromise then they deserve derision. The problem is with modern technology is that it has a tendency to change social norms and I guess Islam seeks to guard against this by maintaining the old ways. Would a woman be any better off driving a car? We managed for thousands of years without all of these newfangled inventions and I sometimes think we all too often place too high a value on machines.
You can look away from the lady, yes, but it's already too late as the emotional impact of seeing a sexy lady has been registered.Get over it, boy! It is not the lady's problem. She should not change her style for you. If you are grown up enough, you could certainly look at her like your mother, sister, daughter or granddaughter. They all have the same general body features as that sexy lady, and in a nation of people that are worth calling humans, they all have the right to dress comfortably and stylishly, including what some people call provocatively. I felt disgusted when I saw a news story from Saudi Arabia a few months back. A middle age woman was a participant in some kind of an election in that jungle nation. Her handsome young son had to drive her around in order for her to campaign, as she was not allowed to drive in that country. If people like that young man grew up with the sense of human dignity, they would have revolted to bring that sense to that nation, instead of complying with the subjugation of women, including their mothers. You see, by saying something like 'it's not the lady's problem' you endorse whatever way women choose to dress and I don't think that's fair because you are indulging women too much. Women have the freedom to dress pretty much how they want but with freedom comes responsibility and by ignoring responsibility women invite scorn which can lead to a loss of freedom in the long run. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should and I think this is what is lacking nowadays. We all have freedoms but the trick is to exercise your freedom while allowing others to exercise theirs. If people aren't prepared to compromise then they deserve derision. The problem is with modern technology is that it has a tendency to change social norms and I guess Islam seeks to guard against this by maintaining the old ways. Would a woman be any better off driving a car? We managed for thousands of years without all of these newfangled inventions and I sometimes think we all too often place too high a value on machines. This is my lazy little post which quotes masses of text only to add nothing of value to the conversation. Correct.
You can look away from the lady, yes, but it's already too late as the emotional impact of seeing a sexy lady has been registered.Get over it, boy! It is not the lady's problem. She should not change her style for you. If you are grown up enough, you could certainly look at her like your mother, sister, daughter or granddaughter. They all have the same general body features as that sexy lady, and in a nation of people that are worth calling humans, they all have the right to dress comfortably and stylishly, including what some people call provocatively. I felt disgusted when I saw a news story from Saudi Arabia a few months back. A middle age woman was a participant in some kind of an election in that jungle nation. Her handsome young son had to drive her around in order for her to campaign, as she was not allowed to drive in that country. If people like that young man grew up with the sense of human dignity, they would have revolted to bring that sense to that nation, instead of complying with the subjugation of women, including their mothers. You see, by saying something like 'it's not the lady's problem' you endorse whatever way women choose to dress and I don't think that's fair because you are indulging women too much. Women have the freedom to dress pretty much how they want but with freedom comes responsibility and by ignoring responsibility women invite scorn which can lead to a loss of freedom in the long run. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should and I think this is what is lacking nowadays. We all have freedoms but the trick is to exercise your freedom while allowing others to exercise theirs. If people aren't prepared to compromise then they deserve derision. The problem is with modern technology is that it has a tendency to change social norms and I guess Islam seeks to guard against this by maintaining the old ways. Would a woman be any better off driving a car? We managed for thousands of years without all of these newfangled inventions and I sometimes think we all too often place too high a value on machines. Who are you or me to endorse or not endorse whatever way women choose to dress? Women invite scorn due to their dress only in barbarian-majority countries and in barbarian ghettoes in civilized countries. How in the world does exercising freedom to dress anyway you want trample others’ freedom? ‘Would a woman be any better off driving a car?’ is another utterly stupid statement – not worth responding to.
You see, by saying something like 'it's not the lady's problem' you endorse whatever way women choose to dress and I don't think that's fair because you are indulging women too much.With all due respect to the rules of decorum, a healthy Fuk U to Webplodder, is in order. It is fundamentally twisted to believe women are supposed to take your male-centric-personal _______ into consideration when planning and going about her day. (In all of my worldly interactions I've found woman can perfectly well think for themselves, they don't need you or your ilk.) Hopefully enough of them understand that rights aren't given, they are taken. And youz are all about taking away their rights. Sounds like you believe woman are chattel to be ruled by clerical fiat, actually it's just your own personal conviction. You are an enemy to woman, a crusader for some God you pretend to know, but who does not exist.
Women have the freedom to dress pretty much how they want but ...BUT NOTHING ! I'd love you see you spout that line downtown around this college town - 'Back the fuk off' would be your polite warning from all sides. Here you'd better abide by our etiquette, or expect your brand of sexism to elicit a strong and "memorable" responses. Yeah, yeah, I know in some parts some get to kill their sisters, since they're insecure and ass-*%@! enough to do it. I'm sure glad I live in my neighborhood, a lot of the world sounds like pure hell these days. It's so sad, when I was a kid the world was a place to dream of adventuring and seeing -now so much has evolved into a horror show. But what else can be expected when blind adherence on contrived dogma and a Profits Uber Alles mentality permeates every layer of business and society? :down:
Who are you or me to endorse or not endorse whatever way women choose to dress? Women invite scorn due to their dress only in barbarian-majority countries and in barbarian ghettoes in civilized countries. How in the world does exercising freedom to dress anyway you want trample others’ freedom?Sam, though I have strong disagreements with your perspective regarding somethings, it's nice to know we are in full agreement about a few things, well said.
Wow, fun thread.
Please don’t insult people here. Webplodder has some very commonly held conceptions of how people interact that we don’t agree with, but insults will not help inform him why we hold the conceptions we do.
Regarding the OP, I don’t see this as fundamentally a moral issue but a practical one, historically speaking. In previous eras, in pretty almost every corner of the world, women lived in fear of being raped by unscrupulous men. Many of these modesty rules surrounding women arose, I think, to make familial protection of daughters and wives stronger from this danger. Basically, there existed a whole lot of terrible, terrible men around the world. Nowadays, those people still exist but womens’ protections from them don’t depend on the womens’ families any more, at least in large chunks of the world. Police, do, where police are not stopped from enforcing such protection by cultural norms or terrible laws.
I much prefer to live in a world where women don’t have to live in fear of being assaulted by every man they see that’s not of their family. If you find yourself thinking that women still need this moral form of protection (modest clothing), why? Is it because the laws in your country don’t protect them? Do you know men who would rape a woman the first chance he gets?
Wow, fun thread. ............... In previous eras, in pretty almost every corner of the world, women lived in fear of being raped by unscrupulous men. Many of these modesty rules surrounding women arose, I think, to make familial protection of daughters and wives stronger from this danger. Basically, there existed a whole lot of terrible, terrible men around the world. Nowadays, those people still exist but womens' protections from them don't depend on the womens' families any more, at least in large chunks of the world. Police, do, where police are not stopped from enforcing such protection by cultural norms or terrible laws. ...............As I have written in some other places, humans in each place of the world were savages at some point in time. We should not have a problem acknowledging that fact. It becomes a problem when today some people advocate/promote/practice such barbarian behaviors of their biological and nonsensical (religious and traditional) ancestors, and some other people tolerate/support that for respecting diversity. Laws and the ways police operate depend on the society at large. I am sure even without the laws and the police protection, in some societies women would be respected a lot more than in some other societies.
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Who are you or me to endorse or not endorse whatever way women choose to dress? Women invite scorn due to their dress only in barbarian-majority countries and in barbarian ghettoes in civilized countries. How in the world does exercising freedom to dress anyway you want trample others’ freedom?
Sam, though I have strong disagreements with your perspective regarding somethings, it’s nice to know we are in full agreement about a few things,
well said.
Thank you for liking what I wrote. I wish I knew your real name, so that I could address you appropriately.
Now as for us differing in opinions, I would say that the world has seven billion people and so seven billion personalities. However, for the major differences between you and me, below is a sentence that I just wrote in this thread in response to someone else. Are you and I different mostly about the highlighted part of the sentence?
"It becomes a problem when today some people advocate/promote/practice such barbarian behaviors of their biological and nonsensical (religious and traditional) ancestors, and ]>
Thank you for liking what I wrote. I wish I knew your real name, so that I could address you appropriately.Peter ;-) http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2015/10/citizenschallenge-hasno-cv.html
Are you and I different mostly about the highlighted part of the sentence? "It becomes a problem when today some people advocate/promote/practice such barbarian behaviors of their biological and nonsensical (religious and traditional) ancestors, and some other people tolerate/support that for respecting diversity."I see it more as age-old tribalism. (and succumbing to deliberate tactical brainwashing.) I don't fully understand the second part there. Are you alluding to the rational children of the intellectual enlightenment who understood well enough that the right-wing fanatics united with religious extremists was/are peddling dishonest crap, but we're too busy having a good time and enjoying our lives to worry about engaging in the public dialogue and helping shape the public perception of reality? Thus the crazies take the field.
Thank you for liking what I wrote. I wish I knew your real name, so that I could address you appropriately.Peter ;-) http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2015/10/citizenschallenge-hasno-cv.html
Are you and I different mostly about the highlighted part of the sentence? "It becomes a problem when today some people advocate/promote/practice such barbarian behaviors of their biological and nonsensical (religious and traditional) ancestors, and some other people tolerate/support that for respecting diversity."I see it more as age-old tribalism. (and succumbing to deliberate tactical brainwashing.) I don't fully understand the second part there. Are you alluding to the rational children of the intellectual enlightenment who understood well enough that the right-wing fanatics united with religious extremists was/are peddling dishonest crap, but we're too busy having a good time and enjoying our lives to worry about engaging in the public dialogue and helping shape the public perception of reality? Thus the crazies take the field. Thank you, Peter! Sorry, I was lazy about checking out your website. In any case, I am also lazy about digging out where we disagreed strongly. But I am sure both you and I will continue to speak our minds about issues that matter to humanity.
Saudi Arabia investigates video of woman in miniskirt
Her miniskirt looks fine to me. I surely would not call it immodest. The question really is, when will those Saudis that want her punished get humanized?
Saudi Arabia investigates video of woman in miniskirt http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40633687 Her miniskirt looks fine to me. I surely would not call it immodest. The question really is, when will those Saudis that want her punished get humanized?Probably the day after never.
Saudi Arabia investigates video of woman in miniskirt http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40633687 Her miniskirt looks fine to me. I surely would not call it immodest. The question really is, when will those Saudis that want her punished get humanized?If the location is one where modest dress is expected, she's asking for trouble and will probably pay severely. If not, she might get away with it.
Saudi Arabia investigates video of woman in miniskirt http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40633687 Her miniskirt looks fine to me. I surely would not call it immodest. The question really is, when will those Saudis that want her punished get humanized?Oh yeah that reminds me of our disagreement. While we both despise extremist Islam behavior, the way I understand it you suggest it's an indigenous problem rooted in the Koran and I see it as a product of the history of Western interference, encouragement, gross naivety and unbelievable hubris that has come back to hunt down and destroy its creator. Just like the capitalism society's been following since the Reagan years, in the end it's self-cannibalizing, we can already see it in every sector of our society and planet, yet those most responsible remain faithfully steadfastly the blindest to the damage they are inflicting.
Saudi Arabia investigates video of woman in miniskirt http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40633687 Her miniskirt looks fine to me. I surely would not call it immodest. The question really is, when will those Saudis that want her punished get humanized?She's been arrested. https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/saudi-woman-miniskirt-video-arrested-public-outcry-151803611.html